rascal

*stays in Jelly stone*? Somebody shouldna invited a blabber mouth like ME if they wanted our escapades kept quiet ...lol The tribe and I are home safe.....will post some thoughts tomorrow....as I am running late for karate class tonight :) Many brilliant ideas were discussed........rumors of an anti wow program.... though the woman who took the notes LEFT them in my rv! Oakspear...your presence was missed, I hope that you and your lady will join us next year. Sudo, it was a mighty subdued affair without you as well...... For those of you who missed it....our own dear wwjl suprised us with her beautifull voice .... as well as being a talented singer, she is a song writer.....her cd`s were a delightfull suprise.

Well...as is typical for me, I have had several last miniute emergencies....not the least of which is discovering that my spare tire has inexplicably self destructed ....oh well, better mounted on the back of the rv than if I was depending on it in an emergency I guess....anyway, I am reluctant to start before aquiring a new one.... I have communicated with shell that I will probably be too late to cook dinner this evening....any of you that arrive before me, if you can cover my meal, I will fix my sketti at a different meal...otherwise I guess you will have to scrounge....I am sorry. I look forward to seeing you all in a few hours..... Cathy

George and Kathy.....one would tend to think so , HOWEVER.... consider that Mike was serious enough to report pirate to the moderator......(as is evidenced by the moderators reply to him) ...I therefor must assume that in a panic he ALSO called pam san and was desperate to call anybody ELSE he could think of in the middle of the night to have this removed before folks were endangered....

ROTFL, I found the original post amusing pirate, thanks. I found Mike`s reaction hysterically funny! What a hoot.... pirate...you`d BETTER be worried....rofl ....you been REPORTED! gasp shiver.....know this.....that we will hold you directly responsible for any mayhem and murder created as a direct result of spiritual contamination from devil spirits inadvertantly absorbed from allowing our eyes contact with the offensive filth in your post ;)

TWI has the property given and maintained from people whom assumed it would always be for public use. TWI could not have built that place without the wierwille family giving their home and farm....us giving our money to buy the materials for the buildings and us providing the physical labor to erect them. HQ was given, built and maintained with funds of people who were told that it was to be used for the body of believers. 100`s of thousands of people for decades ......we built it believing that we were always going to be welcome....You have a handfull of people who siezed control of the assets.....people who then threw out any and all who remembered the promises and the heart behind it.... Now they have convinced people that it is TWI`s RIGHT to allow or deny access to that which we have spent our lives building.....bah....that is the bitterest pill of all.. We are so gratefull to twi for this stippend...this crumb....that we convince ourselves that it really isn`t so bad ...it is quite reasonable....and after all it IS twi`s right... Bahhhh....it is NOT all right, it is groveling to get what we want from those who stole it....and in doing so, WE validate twi`s power and control yet again..... The church up the hill and cemetary is private property....they would never deny anybody access to the facilities when they had services...and they would NEVER deny anybody... members or not acess to the cemetary...GEEEEZE it is common decency and courtesy...and yet we somehow seem that twi can draw a pass on tthe decency, courtesy and respect due people....and even manage to convince ourselves that twi`s love of power and control is some how understandible and acceptible....auuugh I would love to take my children to walk the grounds that their mother and father built...show with pride what we accomplished in our youth....have them experience the fun of a lunch with a whole room full of people who loved God and each other... The whole place radiated what could be accomplished by God and people who loved him....I was so proud to bring my parents to roa and show them what WE had accoplished...what was *ours* Instead it is now deemed *private property* owned and controlled by a few people .....and we are expected to kiss their rosey red arses in order to have access to that which we gave. As I understand it, we are not even allowed to go to a sns..... imagine if vp and the founders had an inkling that the auditorium that we built was only to be utilized by a preselected few people each sunday? Imagine if the founders saw a day that armed security would be keeping the run of the mill believers away from hq, the way woods, the fountain of living waters.....tc`s ordered to keep folks away from fellowships.. denying people access to teaching materials ...classes, fellowships and family members away from each other??? SUUUUUUUUUUURE we might have access to these things *IF* we jump through the right hoops, *IF* we contribute enough tithe..*IF* we write enough letters grovel and kiss the apropriate a$$e$...even then...you might not be thin enough or have enough teeth, or have health issues that might contaminate the rest of the believers.... Imagine if they knew that their children and grandchildren would have to ask permission to have access to the mother or the graves of their parents??? There are folks who spent their own money and built home(s?) on the property that have had those taken.....the chalet we built for our use was taken.... TWI`s conduct is inexcusable.

Beautifull and well spoken HCW.

Temple Lady ...now THAT is an excellent idea.....I think I will ask mark (my spouse) if *I* can get a wife TOO!!!!! I`d love to have someone here to wash laundry, cook dinner, do dishes, yard work. sweep and mop...do the windows ... all at no charge!!! I don`t know why I never thought of it before myself :lol: So Raf is in your skirts??? sounds like fun ....but with raf under your skirts and a wife ...isn`t your closet kindda getting crowded? WIll you be coming out of the closet soon? :)

Oh I don`t know, I think Groucho`s surmise of them being completely full of sh1t has merrit :P I mean look at how well vp`s revelation about who should take charge of the ministry turned out :lol: ......my my wasn`t THAT an outstanding example of Godly revelation???? beta? full time corpes? word over the world? roflmao All outstanding examples of that in depth spiritual perception and awareness that twi nurtured in it`s leaders.... I know that *I* am impressed ;)

I cannot BELIEVE that I missed THAT.... Examining the fruit of others peoples lives is EXACTLY what scriptures instructed us to do in able to correctly identify OTHER people of the spirit...and to be abl;e to identify and avoid people of the flesh. You Mike are LYING about what God specifially directs us scripturally to do....ie examine one another for the specific fruit of the spirit listed in galations in order to know whether to embrace or avoid a person. I understand that you need to distract people from scripture in order to get them to consider the premise of writings of a man of the flesh. But don`t think we will let you get away with it unchallenged.

Mike it is simply the difference between the genuine and the counterfit. I have been on both sides of this issue....sure, counterfit LOOKS good, but genuine is always better :) *Average American Bounty* there ya go denegrating God`s goodness again sigh The joy, the blessings ...not to mention the PEACE in my life after ditching pfal ..... is all the indication I need to know that vp`s writings are lies.

Ummm you are looking at circumstances....NOT fruit of the spirit Mike....Galations is quite clear about what fruit will be demonstrated by men of the spirit vs men of the flesh. I know that you would like to avoid topic entirely since it soundly brands vp for the man of the flesh he was and AS such is completely unworthey of trust and devoid of credility. As a matter of fact galations says that one such as he .... has NO inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. I refuse to place my trust in the writing of a man proven to be of the flesh, it would be extremely foolish....sorry Mike. As for reading me? I certainly am not the one trying to deny the blessings of God in order to make my product look appealing. I am a simply a woman gratefull to enjoy what God has seen fit to freely and lovingly give, who is incensed and deeply offended that you would chose to denegrate what he has so generously bestowed.

All I know is life with pfal = misery and pain, betrayal, and poverty. life without pfal = peace joy prosperity blessings. The things I enjoy in my life are all indicactions according to the scriptures of God`s blessings. You spit on that which God has freely given, and offer in return, a life of endless works, bondage and hoop jumping in an attempt to eventually achieve access to God`s goodness. Scriptures tell me there was two great commandments..... Scriptures tell me who to trust by giving me a check list of specific fruit to examine......in utilizing this information, I can safely and comfortably concur that pfal was a lie. I understand, it is necessary....you HAVE to disparage what God has done in our lives otherwise it is poof positive that you are mistaken...that we don`t need to jump through the hoops of false doctrine. If you can make us look bad or mislable God`s blessings, as bribes....it makes you feel a little better.

The condemnation comes because many of us have seen first hand the death and destruction caused by your *positive message* Your pretty repackaging and fancy new lable cannot mask the stench emminating from the product you offer. We aren`t having ANY of it, no matter how you mislable it.

Uhuh, Mike, dodge ...point a finger and attempt to misdirect........ a manuver worthey of my 5 yr old You cannot negate my gratitude and thankfullness for the blessings God sees fit to bestow by mislabeling them as bribes. .

Yes, lg, apparently it was all an illusion. Naievely we believed vp when he told us it was *home* to the believers and that it was ours.....we believed that there were no members, that the ministry was ours...... We were dumb as posts....that doesn`t make the betrayal of our trust morally right or acceptable.

(((((((Brother speed))))))) somehow I feel that were I there..... your presence would make Iraq just a little bit less hellish.... You are a ray of hope shining in that darkness....thank you sir. Bell, thank you. Mike, you disparage that which God has seen fit to supply by. You attempt to denegrate God`s goodness wrought when calling it a bribe from Satan. It has nothing to DO with principles learned.... as I eshew those principles as lies and distractions from our true duty and responsibility in this life....ie *Love God and Love your neighbor*

Mike, you spit on what God has given. I am gratefull, I have been given so much, I am blissfully content. I ask nor need nothing more. Sfunny, since you ask..... most of my neighbors are of the same mind set. We live our lives as people of good moral integrety and character, seeking to do our best to lighten one anothers burden when the opportunity arises....each of us determined to make our little corner of the planet a brighter place. I think this is as God intended.

Well Mike, I wasn`t aware that God begrudged us happiness, temporary or otherwise..... The only indication I haave is that according to the scriptures...my life shows sign of God`s blessing upon it. My husband and I have been blessed with a quiver PLUS full of happy children, our family enjoys physical health (omg what a blessing), and though not rich, our family prospers, our desires are filled. We are deeply content..... We are priveliged to be living our dream....not because we deserve it, not because we earned it by good works by any means....... we are humbly gratefull because EVERY single one of those things listed are indications that the bible says are God`s hand of blessing is upon us. I think you are pretty creepy to spit on what God has seen fit to so generously bestow. Then again, I have to wonder if maybe you aren`t simply jealous becaues you in your personal life lack in these things that are so intrinsically important....and so like a petulant child, you must out of pure spite, denigrate and make God`s blessings appear to be somehow unsavory.... undesirable

Yeah, I know that you don`t get it Sami, no problem....... I am glad that you are allowed access. I am glad that you aren`t bothered by the incongruity of having to ask permission to visit you own dear father. The sins of betrayal committed by twi leaders are not yours to bear..... I am not attacking you (I`d have to face your momma for sure if I did :unsure: ... kidding shell :P ) I find it very sad that we are expected to be gratefull enough for such a miserly little stippend that we grovel for the privelege of visiting what once was ours. If you paid that mortgage on your house faithfully every month.....with the understanding that it was your own, made investments , additions, repairs understanding that you were building equity in your own home...... and then after paying the agreed upon price for ten, twenty, thirty, years ....you were without warning uncerimoniously thrown to the street, your furniture, belongings your lifes work seized because of some legal loop hole hidden within the contract...unknown to you because you had trusted the other party.....many of us were not given a choice in whether or not we were allowed to further participate or support this ministry....access to the buildings built with our money on the the property we improved with decades of physical labor donated time. We were told that hq was HOME...we were welcomed HOME every years at the roa...we were told that hq belonged to US the BELIEVERS..that we would ALWAYS be welcomed at the way!! It was NEVER intended to be private property , under the arbitrary control of a select few....to be accessed and utilized by a few...the priveliges to be granted and denied on a whim....otherwise we wouldn`t have given what we did. Legally, they might be allowed to seize that which was yours...that wouldn`t make it morally or ethically right. What was our was taken, we foolishly invested our hearts and lives..... in the purity of our motives never dreaming that we were giving everything we had to what would eventually become someone ELSES private property....a place that we would never be able to visit with our children..... As big a scounderel as vp was, he never dreamed of the day that not only would the run of the mill believers be denied access to our home at hq...... but even his own CHILDREN free access to their mother and ancestral home. I do not want to spoil your special experience, the healing of connecting with your father..... The moral and ethical issue of twi siezing control of hq and denying access to the people to whom it was promised by the founder and the original bot`s is an entirely seperate issue. Maybe we should start a seperate thread about this to not further contaminate your beautifull thread about you father?

THAT is the *biggie* announcement?????? ROFLMAO PIMP !!!!! Can you say NO life???? GUFFAW :lol: OMGAWD how will they be able to withstand the excitement of the upcoming year???? :o

Rare and special is NOT a catagory I would place a man who was a thief ..... a cold hearted destroyer of those innocent souls placed in his care .... a man who raped those who naievely placed their trust in him...believing that as a man of God he had their best interests at heart. There is an entirely different catagory for a man who manifested those qualities....there are instructions given for dealing with those who manifest the fruit in vp`s life. Heres a hint.... it WASN`T to trust him as the one to bring forth God`s word....

A man who rapes girls, one who destroys lives with out compunction while simultaniously quoting scripture...one who shamelessly steals from those whom have been placed in his care......does NOT fall into the * rare or special* catagory..... I personally would want nothing to DO with a God who would chose and support a man such as he.... On the other hand, the God of scriptures DOES warn us of gentleman who DO fit vpw`s description. They are described as wolves in sheep`s clothing, seeking whom they may devour...they are also described as false prophets.... These fellows LOOK like genuine Christians....close enough to fool us.....the only way to discern the difference According to galations is to examine the fruit in their lives. The fruit in vp`s life soundly condemns him as a man of the flesh....pure and simple.... If Jesus returns with a pfal book in hand, I will know truly, that I am in HELL :(

Because it is property that was bought and paid for by people assuming as they had been repeatedly assured......that it was to be used for A Godly purpose for the common good of everyone. Ownership of this property was seized through devious means by a few people and the miriad of rightfull owners cast out.... It is cruel, the *permission* is just yet another way for them to flex their muscles....an *in your face* to people whom they no longer have any other means to control. They appear to enjoy hurting folks through the only means left at their disposal ... withholding that which is important...unless you allow them control. To see this a s a private property issue is I believe naieve. Our Church on the hill denies access to NOONE the cemetary..be you member or not.....to do so would be unconscionable. IF twi were simply worried about vandals .... (one must question why people would be angry enough to want to be destructive) .... it would be a very small thing for them to place a security guard or two to allow people access to that which they were promised. But then again .... that would be the mature loving thing to do, something that one would naturally expect from a Christian ministry....

Whew.... to place a man like lcm back in charge of peoples lives ought to be criminal :( It would be a clear indication of the calibur of this travesty that calls itself a ministry