rascal

You know, I was asked once to just MEET with an attorny concerning information that I might be able to provide in a case against twi. I had nothing to hide, but do you know that even after being away from twi for a decad... ....I was struck with the cold terrors at the very thought of having to face twi and their attornies....(is that pathetic or what?) I am ashamed to say that I weenied out....I cannot even imagine having to face twi attornies in a public court and have to relive the horrors suffered...to be shamed in front of others with the low life attornies recriminations and character assassinations in a vile attempt to defend that scum bag ministry (kind of reminds me of the way someone here operates <_< ) Turns out the ministry didn`t want that stuff public either....as they paid DEARLY to keep it out of the public.

The actions of vpw are clearly labled in the scriptures as those of a false prophet......not someone that God worked within. The fact that you can ignore the clear instructions and warnings given for our benefit in the scriptures....is a testament to how effective his ability to mislead.

um...lesseee ... twi BEFORE the lawsuit...martindale in full power...25,000 people still being decieved... twi AFTER the Allens lawsuit....martindale gone.... 20,000 people found the doors to freedom, The activities under the focus of a legal magnifying glass making their illegal and immoral practices much more difficult to continue. Heroes... Paul and Fern??? You BET!! They were the FIRST! Thanks and God bless you guys wherever you are!

Their sins WOULD have had they NOT repented.... big diff ...you are leaving out a very necessary part of the history oldies. vp and twi never repented....A necessary requirement according to the scriptures. As it was.... their actions are discribed scripturally as dangerous and harmfull...and we are told to eschew such as these. It is the difference between the genuine and the counterfit.....the real deal and a wanna be.

We had a very dificult time with Christmas after leaving twi....my husband didn`t want to participate at all...was angry with me for anything that I did... I started going to orlando with the kids and leaving him at home just so we could have trees decorations and and presents guilt free...... After 4 years of this we had to stay home this year........so my Dad and his wife brought one of those fiber optic trees that she found at a yard sale cheap...along with some pretty ornaments and we decorated the tree and had hot cocoa together.... It is the start of new christmas tradition for us.....the tree is so unlike anything either my husband or I can relate to from our twi and difficult early years that it has fresh new meaning. Not to mention the color changes are breath taking ..... This year is the start of new and fresh traditions for my family....shhh don`t tell anybody but my spouse has even been buying presents for Santa to leave under the tree ...gasp :o

If you were too challenged to get this sorry maybe the program was not for you anyway. If you were awake at some point during your apprentice year you would have gotten this I think* What an arrogant ugly statement..I can almost hear the venom with which leadership uttered the same thing when used to keep us in line during that year.....usually to be followed in scathing vitriol dripping tones by ...... maaaaybe your heart never really WAS to be corpes in the first place hmmmmmmmm? Were you perhaps a LIAR when you applied...hmmmm? or have you just ALWAYS been a LOSER....a FAILURE..... ..hmmmmmm which is it???? liar, loser, or failure?????? ANY reason for backing out after applying during that app year was viewed as *breaking a vow or commitment to God* and the threatened consequences were dire......spiritual death followed by probable physical death....as well as being branded a liar and dissapointment to God and betrayer of the trust of his ministry...bah Dove SURE you got it during your app year....but by THEN it was way too late. Geeze you had already unkowingly made the commitment...... There was no backing out short of spiritual suicide .... by the time you learned that it was a lifetime commitment. Shoot I was told that was what one did if they loved God.....to not go meant that you didn`t love him.....and were not worthey to fellowship with the president of the ministry much less other corpes grads.... Who DIDN`T want to love God and be found worthey? The promo I attended at the roa billed it as how to be the BEST tc....a far cry from a lifetime commitment that nothing including unexpected pregnancies, marriage, lack of finances or unavailable classes was to keep you from completeing :(

So you didn`t REALLY want an answere to your morality question did you John? What Bayunga did was not contrary to the laws of HIS country..... Even so, it is illegal and irrelevent in THIS context..... As far as who bought the sex doctrine? If I start listing all of the accusations against all of the leaders just at gspot then you will squawk because it is 2nd hand It sounds like you are attempting to put forth an excuse for morally reprehensible, as well as indulging in a physically dangerous behavior which could affect innocent life. Why? Biblically, a source which YOU claim to give credence...... adultery and fornication are condemned as wrong period.... Are you saying that the scriptures are wrong?.....

I must be unsophisticated in my musical tastes...lol but I gotta say that I LOVED the music of wp ... I always found it inspiring :)

I don`t think anybody would WANT him back.....can you imagine what the faithfull remnat would face when ol vp saw what a mockary they had made of his ministry???? Down to less than 5000 people.... none of his books or classes being offered....he wouldn`t recognise the doctrine being taught....his family members banished... not allowed to set foot in their ancestral home....whew and when he finds out they slapped his wife in a nursing home in her final days....heads would roll for sure.... I`d love to see em trying to explain *household* and *m&a* and WHERE have all of the campuses and properties and airplains and hangars and money gone..... Lol and THOSE would be the ones you would think that would like to see him.....just imagine if the rest of us had a chance to hold him accountable for what he did? The guy had better stay dead :P

That IS a creepy thing for a minister to say ... Fear God with all your heart souls...er um fear your neighbor as um....on these two commandments.... You`d think a man who taught scriptures would have a greater understanding of the power and effectiveness of love :(

I doubt it hcw, when I was exiting in the mid 90s, all previous materials authors and artists were being viewed as *old wine skins*...if anybody left twi...their materials were pulled immediatly from the book stores....we were supposed to empty our houses of any of these folks productions. We weren`t even suppsed to keep photos of anyone who left the ministry I remember wondering how somwthing that had been such a blessing for a decade ..like recorded music and books that had inspired previously could sudddenly endager us spiritually.....just because the author had become posessed and left.....it didn`t make sense...the material was still the same as when they were *spiritual*.... it was just one more thing to put on the back burner untill I could understand a bit better.

Yeah, I remember that corpes was presented as THE best way to be THE best tc, and THE best way to be the best servant for God. I had no idea at the time that it was considered a vow and a commitment to God that could not be terminated under any condition without deadly consequences :( We were told that IF we loved God...we would be in the corpes....no question..at the promo martindale stated that was why he only hung out with corpes because he only wanted people who loved God aroundd him......I knew that I didn`t have any *natural leadership ability* as per the requirements...but I DID earnestly want to know how to best love/serve God.......it was recomended that I enter in spite of my shortcomings anyway and that God would just have to develop whatever was necessary within me....that if I put my heart and bu tt on the line...God would HAVE to honor that....I wanted to be my best for God...so against my better judgement, I enrolled. It was pretty bad....I couldn`t enter residence at the end of my app year because some of the classes that were required had not been available in my state (or aany OTHER state that I had ever lived in for that matter) ....course that meant my believing was faulty and I personally had failed already.....I was treated to my first face melting because of my shortcomings....obviously if I had been spiritually minded I wouldn`t have missed the revelation on how to get the requirements met......I had failed....I was so ashamed...yet I didn`t know where or how or when I had blown it..... It was terribly frustrating being expected to just sign on the line and that God would cover the financial, spiritual etc...it was your fault....if he didn`t ...you were a spiritual loser. Now mind you, I would have had the tution no problem, but a month after signing up....where as I had been saving every penny of every paycheck......it was deemed best/required by leadership that i move out of my Mom`s home (negative unbelieveing vibes you know) and rent an apartment with another believer....so at the end of the year of just scraping by in an expensive apt I didn`t have my tuition entirely together either. I was considered SUCH a loser.... I was so ashamed...I didn`t know why my believing was so bad that God hadn`t come through for me....I had obeyed leadership implicitly.....had done everything within my power and was convinced that GOd would have provided a way had I been spiritually * in tune* I didn`t know where I failed I just knew that some how...... I had..... I had run a healthy growing twig....had had a new student in each of the three classes that we had run that year....was speaking/doing the word like crazy....even turned away the sweetest boy whom I had known for years and now wanted to get serious.....because he wasn`t interested in twi..... Anyway....I was being treated to my first face melting by my creepy lc for being such a spiritual loser.....when i asked him if I couldn`t repeat my app year as a wow....I thought that maybe God could teach me where I had blown it on the wow field....you know you were supposed to grow ten years spiritually...blahdee blah.... well the guy shut up mid scream and calmed right down and commended me for my meakness and willingness to learn. I`d a jumped off of a building at that point to get away from the screaming.... I am serious...I honestly believed that it was all my fault.....and that going wow God would have to teach me... In hind sight I can see that it wasn`t God who let me down or myself that that failed a task....it was just an impossible standard set. So I just went out wow and repeated my app corpes year..... a new and even worse nightmare :(

Oh HAAAAYULL no ....that should never EVER be forgotten or allowed to be hidden again.... THAT was the ultimate betrayal of vpw`s responsibility, position and authority Ex....it was, and still is, and always BE a big frigging deal

Well not to mention the moral aspect of putting your wife/ the mother of your children at risk (WITHOUT her knowledge or consent) of contracting a miriad of std`s....some incurable, and some that might even cause her death .....by simply *breaking an agreement* with 6 mistresses :( It nausiates me to even consider the selfishness or implications of such actions or that one could even ASK the question in the first place.

Yup! IF you adhere to the scriptures ..... they state clearly that fornication AND adultery are dead wrong, no wiggle room period :( Also there are the scriptures recomending that we obey the laws of the land....and according to THIS countries laws....having 7 wives is illegal as well.

Well I THOUGHT that I was providing a plausible scriptural based answere/explanation for the question that YOU asked :)

TOO darned many :( You would be astonished.

Wierwilles sins disqualify him as a leader of any sort in a Christian group.....according to scriptures he was a FRAUD! You are NOT a leader if you did what he did......just a wannabee

Ummm bait for the trap? Possibly camoflage for the snare? necessary sheeps wool to disguise the nature of the wolf so as to remain hidden from the sheep? Did vp devour the sheep while looking and acting like one of them? One might assume then that this would place him in the catagory of *wolf* :(

I suppose that one would HAVE to believe that in order to dismiss so much evidence to the contrary oldies <_<

Questions questions....sigh I don`t understand it either.... I only know that your lives have had meaning and impact to me.....not that I expect that means much in light of what you have endured. I too had a difficult childhood, (nothing compared to yours...but heart breakingly difficult and cruel)....as did my husband.....I too understand the agonizing querstions of *why me?* Why wasn`t I entitled to a normal family growing up? Why wasn`t I entitled to the love, support, and protection that most kiddoes recieve as a matter of course......Why when I was the most vulnerable....seeking love, peace, a feeling of being important, a sense of belonging and family..... was I sucked in to twi? I figure the first half of my life was difficult .... I can let that suck me under or I can grow stronger.....I have half of my life left to live.....I try to live each day in a manner making up for the first half.....you know....enough has been wasted....I intend to try to enjoy every remaining miniute that I have left....try to make a difference in other peoples lives if I can.....I guess that is why I am so indulgent of my passions now..... Enough has been taken from/ denied us.....we are all older, wiser, stronger, we have the rest of our lives to be successfull and happy....no that doesn`t answere the questions..... Oh and for you guys that figure that you have missed out on having a family or marriage....Let me tell you....my Dad lost his second wife after 25 yrs.... 3 months later he met the love of his life who had been divorced from an abusive man years earlier....they both thought their life was finished, assumed that they were done.....game over Let me tell you they are both the happiest they have EVER been....life truly began for my father at 70! He has done more living loving and playing in the past 4 years than his entire life prviously....they are both blissfully happy, all the more so because it was unexpected. What I am trying to say is that in spite of our difficulties....don`t dismiss the chance that there will eventually be a *happily ever after* for each and every one of us, to be savored all the more because it has been so long in coming.

Bell...that is the only sense I can make of it.....that we now have the unique insight into manipulation and control.....it seems that there are many areas that we can apply this knowledge.

vmp?

I shouldn`t have EVER been forced to chose between God and the life of my baby.....

PREEEE cisely Toad friend. There was never any repentance when caught, just run their accuser out of town on a rail