rascal

I understand Tonto..... I remember vividly.... after going to my very first state app corpes meeting. I went expecting to begin learning the inner secrets to walking spiritually...the beginning of my life and walk as a doulos..... we were simply paired up and dropped off for witnessing. I was so glum driving home alone afterwards..... I remember the hopeless feeling that I was forever condemned to selling oranges door to door....(something we were required to do as a fund raiser in high school) selling a product that nobody wanted and further more resented you for interupting their lives.......I realised that I was expected to utilize much detested high pressure sales gimmicks ....something I had grown to hate in the pet store I worked at........it was such a bleak realization.....with a vivid clarity .....I saw that my spirituality was to be forever measured by how many people that I brought to twig and ran through the classes....any praises or pats on the back...were directly determined on a daily basis by how many people I had talked into attending twig....day in day out for the next 70 years..... I saw the rest of my life as nothing more than a push to hawk God via pfal....no rest, no respite .....I realised that I was never to be allowed to have any friends or activities outside of those perameters..... The worst part was that I knew that I wouldn`t be feeling that way if I had been more spiritual.....it was right then that I clicked off my brain ......renewed my mind ...... pretended that my feelings, my desires, any goals that I had ever had were of no consequence....... It was then and there that I began the process of shutting down my brain....or renewed my mind as we termed it......and coldly, numbly proceeded following instructions to the letter..... that was the day that I began to whither up and die inside.

Wow bagpipes.... I think that those could have been the entries in many of our journals, had we been couragious enough to articulate our thoughts on paper. I think that it sounds like the spirit of God was working in you....what blows my mind in hindsight was how I was trained to shut that voice out.... I learned to identify that as the voice of satan trying to trick me away from the word.....I learned to believe that the still small voice was to be silenced by running retemories through my mind non stop so that I couldn`t be tempted to question the mog...... If I was uneasy about a teaching or a requirement ..... it was because I had allowed darkness in....I must not think evil...I must not think outside of the box....I must not THINK period....just run scriptures non stop through my consciousness so as to not allow my mind to be contaminated.....shiver.

Awwww what a gift! What an incredible lady to open the doors to freedom for you biker babe. So happy for you, I look forward to hearing of your progress ..... your adventures outside of your apt doors :)

OR the scriptures could be a record of accounts of how God delt with a particular people at a particular time in history. In other words a history book. I don`t think that it is unrealistic to think that we are capable of making our own history ....that God has his manner in dealing with us and our understanding in the 21st century..... It is a bit unrealistic to hold ourselves to the rules and standards of the judean culture 2000 plus years ago... Love God and Love your neighbor .... I think the rest will pretty well fall into place.

GOOD one mex!! :P

We read transchat for a while....and were bwildered at the venom and anti ministry feelings...lol Man, I can remember when husband registered me at waydale....lol...He made me solemly promise NOT to allow what I read there cause me to become *negative* about the ministry roflmao... Actually I was pretty good, was a ministry/doctrinal defender ..... the ministry was ok...lcm was fine...just a tad narrow visioned....no biggy ..... snort. It was when greasespot came and excathedra began telling her story ...and dot matrix and catcup and her sister... that I realised that the ministry had never really been what I thought it was. Way dale and greasespot didn`t help me to LEAVE twi...but it was instrumental in helping me leave after I had LEFT!! I was still trying to live an impossible standard....still blaming myself and my believing for my failures...still waiting for satan to kill us because we were not tithing to twi.....still bewildered as to why strict adherance to all of the formulas and principles learned in twi weren`t yielding better results.... Greasespot`s posters began opening the doors for me to start thinkink/living again. I was no longer imprisoned ...helpless with twi doctrine. Life began again finally after nearly two decades of stagnation.....I was able to start over from scratch and learn to apreciate God in a way that had been previously unknown. How can one ever sufficiently thank pawtucket or the miriad of greasespot posters for opening the doors to freedom for me and my family? I can`t ...I can only say thank you very much....and hope that you greasespotters understand what you have meant to me.

THAT would surely be my idea of pure heaven little hawk.....some girl is sure going to be lucky when she finally finds you. My spouse is strictly anti equine ...thats ok....the nice thing about raising kids is that usually I can talk one or two of them into indulging in my horse obsessions with me :) My spouse has given up making me see reason and just stays home to baby sit the younger kids....and though I would prefer he were enjoying the world from horseback WITH me.... babysitting is an important job as well :)

I am astonished that you would even be ASKED to clean someones bathroom while babysitting :blink: Good GRIEF ..... these people had unbelieveable gaul.

Very very good belle, thanks. These men were completely unworthey of our trust. I know that I read those scriptures....but never dreamed that it applied to OUR leaders in OUR ministry :( It is the only thing that really makes sense.... otherwise, our experience would seem to tell us that God is unworthey of our trust.

Ummm would you believe me if I told you that I had 7 horses/ponies as well? Believe it or not it wasnt` planned that way :) I only have four cats though...can I make it up in iguannas, geckos turtles and fish?

I have dogs.. 7 of them...but don`t have the ability to post their pictures :( My dogs might mistake the pug FOR the cinnamon bun (accidently of course) as they are mostly shepherds and a dane.

I like Hawks idea.... we could have a burn night at the next weenie roast!!! Everybody bring at least ONE piece of ministry garbage....lol I have a small chest of daily fliers from roa back to 79.... tickets .... booklets wow bands....heart mags ....kids mags....I have tapes....might even dig out my reel to reels!....sns tapes....roa tapes !!!! I think it`d be a HOOT!

Agreed Wafer....a huge step....it was much easier though when I could write him off as a heartless, soul less sob Now that I know he cares enough to try....it behooves me to dismantle all of the defenses I built to keep from being hurt or caring anymore.........it means that I have to let him back in.....sometimes it is easier to just stay mad ...lol Oh well, like I said, at this point, I am cautiously optimistic. I highly recomend the book.... it seems to be helping in many areas outside of marriage as well.

Wafer not...I AGREE 100 percent....no 100, 000 percent....and I can say this havng never read the darned book. How do I know? Well my spouse read this book in dec and promptly bought every copy he could find in multiple book stores...... to hand out for christmas gifts....lol I have seen remarkable changes since he read it..... the kids are wondering what happened to their Dad....Me? I tend to be a little more cynical.....am waiting to see if he is able to address long term issues. The biggest thing that I have noticed is he is hearing more of what I am saying instead of deciding ahead of time what I am meaning......thus the cautious optimism. I am hoping that this is going to provide the missing ingedient....rather than merely another band aid slapped on top of a gaping wound.

Thanks George, you do help, I would gladly take your suggestion, however spouse will not consider it..... It isn`t that I haven`t tried repeatedly........ He has been reading some interesting books on marriage and communication lately... and though there are a whole host of underlying problems that need to be addressed....the books seem to be helping him....it helps to know that at least he is beginning to try.... Sometimes it is too little too late. I certainly would not divorce him to try again with someone else....that would be silly. I personally do not understand marrying someone that you are not willing to love..... not only do you deny that person the love that is so necessary ...but in marrying them, you effectively cut your mate off from ever recieving it any where else. It seems very sad to be condemned to live a lifetime with no love simply because you made a commitment and a vow....and are afraid that God will be mad if you break it. Like I said, I admire the people who recognise a bad fit early enough to correct it. I know a lot of people who are blissfully happy in their second marriage...... How sd to stay in a miserable marriage thinking that is what God requires of us. John just as long as you personally are happy, I suppose that is the only thing that will ever matter

Rofl....my husband years ago once reproved me once for using the microwave to defrost the meat for supper when I could have saved by thinking ahead and laying the meat out that morning to defrost. I offered him a nickle for the electricity I had wasted....lol just made him madder.... it was the *principle* of the thing doncha know?

Lol Mark O :) ..... spoken truly as a parent of not many children....let me ask when sick, is it you or your wife stay up all night worrying? ...is it you or your wife that has to drop everything to take them to the dr`s office and sit for hours exposing them to yet more illness while people hack n barf all around them? ? is it you or your wife that has to go to the pharmacy pick up the extra supplies to nurse kiddoes? Is it you or your wife that cleans up the vomit that has been projected all through the house when the kiddoes cannot make it to the bathroom? Is it you or your wife that has to cope with the laundry of new bedding and a clean out fit for every episode....Do you have insurance? or do you have to pay out of pocket 100 bucks a child an illness? Try imagining this times 7 :unsure: For some folks it really IS a much bigger deal. .... Folks would be kind to consider the impact on others and keep themselves and their sick children home.....rather than be casual because it isn`t such a big deal in their mind. As far as measels mumps and ruebella.... those are ALL diseases that are addressed with childhood vaccinations..... The snotty nosed colds....the strep throat...the flu....these build no immunities of value .... because the kids can recatch it again at any time....sometimes one who was sick first in our family will recatch the same bug before the last person is well.... I will agree though....my kids haven`t had chicken pox...I will have to get the older ones vaccinated because after puberty it is dangerous. As far as the rest of that crap....it is unnecessary and just plain inconsiderate to bring that sick kiddo to class.

Bliss anytime anywhere.......your kids can play in the creek ride the ponies....hunt for fossels....I live in paradise for kids :)

Yeah that was the same way wierwille justified adultery. The woman DARNED well better keep herself alluring and cater to the hubby`s every apetite and be an angel but a devil in the bedroom....blah de blah...all about pleasing the guy....blah de blah..... The poor guys just cannot help themselves......they are horney...... the poor guys cannot help being angry enough to clock the annoying women..... According to Johns/wierwilles pov..It sounds to me like the poor guys are just plain WEAK and looking for a scape goat <_< Consider the source of where you come by these ideas ...... There guys bear no responsibility ...... I knew darned well in twi as a corpes wife I`d darned well BETTER not get fat..... and I`d darned well BETTER not make my spouse mad enough to hit me....if I did it would have been MY fault for being so abysmally foolish to irritate him to that point.........and I darned well BETTER be ready day or night when and where whether I wanted to not to engage in sex..... This wasn`t even what my spouse demanded....just what we had both been taught was my responsibility as a virtuous woman. It was a mighty sick system........one that didn`t equip us as a couple and has taken many years to sort through and undue the damage inflicted. The funny part is ...though it seemed grossly unfair at the time.... it never occured to me to call any of this into question......I accepted this as the *Godly* way to do things. John, you are not propounding a biblical or christian way that a marriage should be.

Sorry word wolf and oak....last derail ... I am sorry....I will take it to pm :) Mooney, I was there and involved then... I am sure that we have met.........thanks acts2 ...I guess that we didn`t know each other then.

Yeah? I was witnessed to in h`ville as a teenager...in 79 and lived there on and off through the 80s..and returned for the first part of the 90s. When were you there? Do we know each other?

YOU have hit my all time greatest pet peve AUUUUGH. These brave souls that drag their flu ravaged bodies to church and sit directly behind you coughing up their toes right over your shoulder........ The mom`s who drag their sick kids to art and dance classes.... You know it isn`t a big deal to them.... but by the time even a minor cold makes the ranks through our family....it has been two to three weeks of he ll for me.... up every night with a different child...sick myself....the extra expenses of cold remedies ..... and good lord if it is something like strep throat requireing a doctor visit and antibiotics??????? OMG Try 100 bucks a kid for 7 kids... 700 bucks because you didn`t want jr. to miss another karate class <_< My nephew came up for a visit just before christmas.....at the end of wich he brightly announced to his mother that he had had a sore throat ........yep it turned out to be strep....but no biggie for sister who has insurance to pay for her dr visits and antibiotics...and only two kiddos to nurse back to health....she has derided me mercilessly for YEARS for being so adamantly over protective of my kiddoes against germs and flu bugs....augh...

I am not nearly so jaded as my prior post would indicate....(wish I could edit it to tone it down a bit lol) I do believe in staying married.....I just think that it would be better if folks stayed together because they wanted to be together rather than forced because of having made a commitment....lol... When posting I was actually thinking more about a Christian neighbor I had a neighbor who was married to a jerk.... absolutely miserable believing that God required her to stay with some one who was unbelievably irritating.....she had been married over 20 years.......maybe this is all reminding me of being perpetually trapped in a bad wow year.....stuck with a family member who`s presence is like fingernails on a chalk board...lol ....you know you remember....toughin it out till aug because you made a committment to God......only THIS time august isn`t ever coming? It is pretty funny actually, I spoke to spouse tonight about what I had written....(his comments reminded me a little of you George) and he feels entirely different than I do ...(big suprise lol) firmly believing in staying together for the commitments sake...divorce not being an option in his mind.....thinks that things are just fine.....etc Seeing things from your pov George, I realised that I don`t want my spouse suprised and angry when the last child is grown ...and that I might want out... up untill now, he thought I had been kidding about the countdown.....I see now that I am going to make a genuine effort to be absolutely chrystal clear.....though in my mind I thought I HAD been all of this time....Thankyou George. I suppose when you are stuck with one another....divorce not being an option....you work harder at it.....you make an effort to change the things that drive one another the nuttiest. All I know is that somehow nearly 20 years have slipped by while we have tried to get it all figured out Maybe we are just a little slow or something ya think?.... I certainly don`t dismiss the possibility that we might eventually figure it all out. I like sock`s annalogy best of all about the velcro.... I like Shellon`s observation about being a crock pot as well ...lol

Thanks guys... the worst part was being afraid of what Satan was going to do to us for being outside the protection of God`s household....It was very hard not to hate my husband and harbor deep resentment for putting us in this situation... Fortunately those were the years before m&a....I was still allowed to attend....even if it was grudgingly....I do not know what I would have done if I had been kicked out away from everyone/everything that I knew and loved. It seemed like I was watching the heart and soul being sucked out of people during those years......I saw people that I had known for years change before my eyes......there was no joy left. I thought that maybe it was just our area.... Act2 I was in Huntsville Al during these years....can you say where you were in al maybe wknew each other.

Well, all I can say is that we are *committed* .....so what? BFD..... doesn`t necessarily make it a happy thing. But hey.... We are doing our duty....We are honoring our commitment ....We are completely disgusted with one another much of the time...irritated beyond measure by one another..... but that doesn`t REALLY matter because by golly we have kept our vows <_< God no doubt is ecstatic with our level of commitment in the face of our obvious misery <_< ...bet he even has special little jewels for the crowns of boys and girls who have been so good <_< All of the prayer and all of the placating ...all of the catering you can bring to bear will not change someone against their will. Sometimes it is just a bad fit and I think that it would be much better to recognise this and change things as early as possible (before children) ...rather than spending a life time honoring a promise made, but miserable.