rascal

Lol freeindeed, Welcome to greasespot ....I suppose I will try not to allow your negativity concerning our negativity to offend me as much as we have obviously offended you :)

:lol: Yeah but I`ll bet that your attitude would be entirely different if after being *helped* you were then raped by the person whom had won your gratitude and trust.....but hey as long as it was somebody else whom suffered from the ravages of the villian ....it is acceptable <_< Sorry I but I DON`T think that God used a criminal to represent him who then raped and robbed those whom he was to assist.... Sounds more like the actions listed in the scriptures of a false prophet to me.....but then again I understand why it is necessary to want to believe that one hasn`t been decieved their entire lives either....the alternative is devistating.

Absolutely Belle, Why there is one especially memorable fellowship I remember where wine and cheese and outstanding company were enjoyed.... an old ex way, a young ex way, and some never been way folks :) Also weenie roasts around the campfire make for some outstanding fellowship as well ...though once a year is entirely too long in between :)

Absolutely Sunesis, it is the only thing that makes any sense. This certainly explains the baffeling contradictions in our experiences. How our experiences could start out as relatively pleasant and invariable grow very bad....also how a group that could present such a wholesom spiritual front....behind the scenes betray it`s participants with such cruelty.

Whew....THAT is amazing. OMG I knew it deep down inside...I just couldn`t put it all into words. AUGH I cannot BELIEVE that we were such pawns.....that our youthfull altruism ...our selfless efforts our money our time our very lives were given 100 percent believing that we were sacrificing ....striving for a noble cause....... all taken twisted and instead molded into something ugly and toxic. Damn them.....

Session 12 Powerfull? Seemed to me the vast majority of people taking the classes we ran were extremely uncomfortable to be put on the spot like that....excellor session even more so.... I agree with excathedra....it seemed to me like nothing more than a lot of emotional hype.

Well....What is it that you want in a fellowship? Are you doing it for yourself or for others?.... Are you doing it because God needs/wants you to?....Are you doing it because that has always been the thing to do up untill now? Will your success marked by how many people attend? I would say do what you like doing.....Personally, We make sketti and watch *lost* with our friend on wedensday nights :) We enjoy each other, catch up on any problems that need to be addressed ....sometimes we have a bottle of wine....sometimes we discuss God and scriptures...sometimes we don`t....we NEVER sing...lol and we don`t pray unless asked. No it isn`t organised fellowship as we once knew it...but it gets the job done.... The best church fellowship I enjoyed was the weekly umw meetings where we all brought finger food and had coffee...we spent 30 miniutes or so eating and catching up with each other ... simply enjoying each others company.....many tiomes that in and of itself was tremendously healing ..... would have a 15 miniute teaching and prayer... It was so nice to eat together and fellowship ...we would leave refreshed and invigorated...strengthened to meet the demands of another week....

The *why* is because the hospital is HUGELY liable.... They desperatly want this kept quiet ....these guys are in so much trouble it isn`t even funny. I hope to HE LL this poor lady has a great attorney ... this hospital was definatly negligent in it`s sanitary practices....SOMEBODY didn`t wash their hands...or sterilize instruments...the hospital desperatly wants to keep this information from being kept public. The REASON the maternity ward is seperate from the rest of the hispital is to protect the healthy Moms and new borns from the rest of the hospital patients who are sick. ONE of the doctors or staff had to have not followed procedure for this to happen. I feel so bad for this poor lady....she is damned lucky to have survived at all...... The risk of infection from negligent staff is a huge problem in many hospitals.... THIS is is why I had most of my babies at home. I would never leave a family member unattended in the hospital either....I saw/stopped some unbelievably unsanitary practices in regard to my son on thirds when they thought I was asleep..... Fortunatly I was able to remedie the situation because his pediatrician and orthapedic surgeon were personal friends...(ie I knew their home numbers...lol) ......else I would have never have been able to wade through the officious know it all staff to get life and death issues addressed. Our Dr.s were LIVID when they found out what had gone on during the night. Our hospital here is commonly referred to by the locals as *death* side rather than by it`s official name of hill side

ROA ....sigh The excitement of arriving in the middle of the night to an empty field and awaking the next morning in a crowded parking lot...the excitement and anticipation as you stood in line for registration....always talking to people from different parts of the country......riding the shuttles....anxiously scanning the crowd for your friends....the generators humming the people yelling God bless you...the smells of food cooking....people in different meal tents happily singing as they worked.....all was well in the universe....there were people who would help you set up your tent....if you needed an extra tent stake....etc. You rushed to get you copy of the daily flier to excitedly scan for the days exciting events.... There was the book store to check out what new music had been produced....and then there was the grand opening.... Vp and mrs. standing in the round thing in front of the big top...joyously welcoming us home.....ambassador one zooming over the big top seemingly close enough that we could reach up and touch it....the ground rumbling...the balloons let go and joyfull noise would start singing *it`s good to be home again*....and it WAS good :) I felt like the luckiest gal on the planet on those days....it felt like such an awsom privelige to be around so many thousands of people who loved God and each other so whole heartedly. We truly had begun to think of that place as *home* since we moved so much....and that this was one big family reunion....they called it *the closest thing to the gathering together here on earth* and too me it felt like it.... Everybody seemed to be geared towards giving, sharing, blessing one another, loving God and each other......it all sounds so corney now...but back then it was all very magical and very special. I am glad that I was too preggers to attend the last few......I would rather remember them as they were ....rather than what they became...... I do not think that lcm ever understood the roa....other than it being an expense and a burden to put on....the policies enacted after wp died...slowly incrimentaly sucked what was good and special away. ...... ROA just became another event to coordinate and achieve control over... sterile and lifeless.....come to think of it...he managed to do that with every aspect of twi.

Gosh if THAT doesn`t define my whole twi experience.....even after leaving....situations, people, their experiences...anything that contradicted way doctrine were immediatly deposited in the *lie* catagory...in spite of having an otherwise unimpeachable character.

I read the yearling...JL....I didn`t read Rascal untill just recently though....even as an adult, I enjoyed that one....One of my neighbors is a relative of the Author. You reminded me that my all time favorite as a kid was the swiss family robinson....I poured over that book examining the pictures....I tried to learn all of their survival techniques...I looked up bolo in every book and encyclopedia I could find.....I tried in vane to manufacture one with dreams of bringing down animals and domesticating them....of taming eagles and ostridges with pipe smoke... Any Jim kjeilgard books....wolf brother ... trailing trouble....any Jack London books.... OMG and Gentle Ben...I must have read that 100 times. As an adult? I adored any book that Zane Grey ever wrote. I love Robert Heinlien`s early books....My all time favorite books were by an early sci fi author E.E. Doc Smith....The Lensman and Sky Lark series.....ahhh such memories of the hours I enjoyed flitting about the galaxy saving it from the evil overlords.... :)

It is SO funny Dog lover.... when I was in twi...I never had enough money for more than a small pup tent for roa..... The people in the rv`s I always was in awe of....they were so revered in my mind......I figured that they really must be walking with God in order to be prosperous enough to have one of those at roa to my way of thinking... anyway...this is the funny part......in my dreams....I am always SO proud because THIS time I too have an rv!!!! Another funny thing.....but I have an rv now...(actually 2) ...an old one but everytime I get in it...I feel like I am king of the world...lol...like I am driving one of those 100,00 dollar jobbies.....and it just now dawned on me why I get such a big kick out of camping in mine now :)

Awww don`t let the tales of heat, bugs, freezing cold alternated by stifeling heat and humidity, unbelievable thunderstorms, long teachings, and creeping legalism .... put you off dear Belle. ROA`s were some of the best times in my life ...REALLY! There was so much love....yeah the lines might be long...but you would invariably strike up a conversation with those around you from different states....wonderfull people and end up making some great friends.... The intense excitement every waking miniute of every day of not knowing who you were going to run into....especially when you had been in a while and had moved a lot....your wow families...corpes leaders....people whom you had become so very close to...labored shoulder to shoulder with ...it was the only time you would see them....catch up on each others lives...... Every couple of miniutes the air would ring with squeals and bellows of friends recognizing each other...tearfully exhuberant hugs....joyous reunions. We all volunteered ... did unbelievable work in stifeling conditions...and had a BALL! I did garbage pick up for years untill they started assigning regions and states to work areas. We sang...we were on constant look out for oportunities to bless people...anybody....we prayed for God to open the doors... I can close my eyes and almost just smell the wow burgers cooking....a treat that has never been matched.....to my way of thinking.....triple did hand dipped ice cream cones......oh lord the biscuts and gravey were heavenly...the coffee absolutely gourmet.....I can hear the generators humming.... You would stay up all night long talking to your buddies....you would go to sleep feeling like the luckiest person on the planet. The big top dances with Bob Stanly and Acts 29 blasting....oh man... Do you know that I STILL have dreams of returning to a roa ??? In the dream.....I am always searching for old friends...always searching...wondering if twi has changed and if it is safe to return....always hoping As awfull as twi was....I am SO glad that I got to enjoy and participate in roa....it was the one thing WORTH being involved in twi for.

I remember at one time him sharing at some gathering that he and mrs.w got married in secret while they were both supposed to be in college .... had to keep it secret from their families for a year untill one or both had graduated. Guess I always thought that was kind of puzzling behavior for a man who was studying to be a minister....kind of sneaky If you had to keep it secret .... was there maybe a reason why that you shouldn`t have been doing it? First documented instance of lock box perhaps? We are doing this and it is ok ... but don`t tell anybody else because they just wouldn`t understand.... Dunno just struck me as not forthright and honest...

I was at that wow training Johniam.... The lightening was cracking loudly enough to make hearing difficult....we were inthe big top...over 3000 of us after roa. The water started pouring in the tent and rising.....the teaching continued....it was rising up around our ankles....we pulled our feet up on to our seats as best we could....the water kept rising the teacher kept teaching....finally we were instructed to pick up our chairs and belongings and start marching..... We followed out of the tent into the osc building....singing moving to the sunny side...lol ROA 80 ...the rain was so bad that my entire tent flooded while at a teaching...destroying my fabulous 35 mm nikon camera and my favorite beaver skin cowboy hat :( ROA 81...was the year of the water contamination and many many of us became desperately ill for most of it ...confined to our tents/vehicles weakened by the ravages of viscious vomitting and diareha ...shiver The next few.... are a blur of storms and heat....untill 86 or 7 I believe it was....an un friggen belivable storm blew up...you could see the vivid streaks of lightening through the tent fabric that was crashing around us...the ground was shaking with each shattering blow....the wind roaring like a freight train.......I could see through a small space at the bottom of the door 100s of guys running around in their underwear trying to frantically put their tents up in gail force winds...and not succeeding...had I not been so frightened, I would have thought it was riotously funny...our tent was one of the then new domestyles...each gail force blast of wind would blow it flat against us...but it would pop right back into shape as soon as it passed.... The lightening was so close as it struck around us...I was mindlessly terrified...trying desperatly to crawl UNDER my spouse....I do not think that I have ever been that frightened before or since......in between the roaring wind and lightening strikes...you could sometimes hear the terrified screams of adults and wailing of children..... As light dawned.....I could only count THREE tents standing out of all of the thousands in tent city... I heard that the corpes tents were actually being lifted into the sky when folks desperatly grabbed the metal poles in groups to try to bring them back....(did I mention that there was a LOT of lightening?) somebody finally became cognizant of the danger of many people clinging to very tall metal poles in the middle of a lightening storm and ordered them to quit. Yeah, I`d say that storms were an issue at roa ...lol

Yeah, you DO have much to be proud of Belle, your house IS beautifull, your dog really IS cool....you are happy! ........You have come a long way in a very short period of time. You have accomplished SO much....you ought to be very very proud. Excathedra.... that is what I thank God for as well....my kiddoes. I was out with my 17 yr old tonight and was struck with what a totally cool person she was ...and that she was no longer just my daughter but has become a dear friend..... Sometimes I get so overwhelmed with dishes and laundry and the state of the house that I forget to be apreciative of the good things. Thanks Belle and Ex for reminding me.

It is the difference, I believe....between the genuine and counterfit Christian..

Is anybody ELSE offended by those sh1t eating grins that all three are sporting????....those smarmey self satisfied smiles???....all palsey ... yet KNOWING what they EACH knew about the other????? Bahhh they disgust me.

THAT ought to be matted, framed and hung up in a prominant place here for all to see whohave ever been associated with twi.... Better yet...a bill board.... This man and his teachings have led so many of us astray......

That is a very good point catcup....How could we possibly trust a man to honestly teach us of God and christian values who was entirely devoid of morality and ethics......some of the very cornerstones of Christianity. If we can not trust him in that which is least...how the heck could we ever trust him to honestly represent the scriptures and God? Everything he taught is suspect of contamination imo.

Absolutely shaz.... I think that people...way too many exway people self medicate with alcohol...it is the only acceptable solution for ignoring what is wrong inside. Mental help, AA, medication for depression all still taboo...even decades after leaving. I had unbelievable battles in the early years with spouse over simply taking the kiddoes to the pediatrician. Altho, never prevented.....every time that I did/do it is a let down and an indication of my lack of believing/trusting in God

I don`t know.... it is like they promised to *fix* everything.... teach us EVERYTHING pertaining to life and Godliness... healing....whatever our issues were.... But somehow in the process ..... we became entirely dependant on them for everything....self worth....friends....a substitue family...a noble mission...aproval from friends...aproval from God.....understanding what he required of us.... They promised us answeres.... They promised us healing.... they won our trust....we dared to finally hope.......as a result....we stayed even when miserable...endured abuse, lived in untenable situations....in hopes of achieving the promised health/wellbeing. I think they definatly messed with our heads......I think that many health issues, both mental and physical were never addressed because we believed that we were going to be healed. It is my opinion that now we are out....we are faced with the same issues that should have had attention 20 years ago...plus a whole slew of new ones due to our involvement.

Yup Shaz, you don`t eliminate 20 years of behavior over night..... The books information is promising....The changes are refreshing......It will be interesting to see if the underlying problems are addressed or not. Just speaking the same language does not necessarily mean one is willing to make the changes necessary... it certainly makes life easier....but I don`t want that to be an excuse to continue to ignore problematic behavior.......... It takes many years of effort to destroy respect and trust....it probably takes a while to rebuild it in any form. We shall see.....

Not likely wafer not...I dearly wish it were so....it wouldn`t have to be horses....it could be karate tourneys with the family....or picnics or fishing.....camping.... take the boat to the river.....a walk in the evening...ANYTHING ..... but it seems that it is still a matter of I am supposed to understand and accept his language.....ie he feeds us and puts a roof over our heads....if that ain`t love.....lol......but for now it is enough that he is managing to act civil. It would be wonderfull for all involved if he decided that time spent with me or his kiddoes were enjoyable....but after all of these years...I am not holding my breath....I have learned that you cannot force someone to enjoy your presence or to percieve it as anything more than enduring fingernails on a chalk board....lol ..... You cannot impress upon someone who adamantly refuses to see..... the necessity and importance of their presence in their families lives....shrug Yeah abi, it is one of those things..... sometimes that is all that is needed is a hug and assurance to address the angst. Such a small thing....but so vitally important....

Whew, that would have been awfull to work all day and then have nothing to enjoy for supper..... There was no taking into account some one working a hard job burned a heck of a lot more calories than someone sitting inside some climate controlled office at a desk..... I suppose that there was a full evening of activities afterwards making it impossible to sneak away for something more substantial?