rascal

Respect is earned....nobody owes you or your pov any pond. In painting everybody that you disagree with as psychotic basket cases in serious need of meds....it makes it safe in your mind to conveniently dismiss them rather than to have to then thoughtfully examine the context of their posts.... Dove and Allen, a lot of Wierwille/twi defenders do the same thing....slap a lable of meanie on a poster or declare them unloving....and bingo you are free to now ignore their input..... There ARE twi supporters that ARE able to respectfully disagree and have earned respect for their pov....Johnny Lingo comes to mind...as does Raf, and dmiller in their address of controversial doctrinal issues. Geeze, Look at how gracious ex 10 is in her presentations and disagreements.....these people have earned my respect, even when I didn`t agree with their pov per say. I I don`t understand why anybody would feel the need for aproval for their beliefs here....post your thoughts cogently, ....treat your fellow posters respectfully and your pov will be considered....possibly agreed with...possibly dismissed....it shouldn`t matter to you either way. Quit sulking, it is an equal playing field here....it you do not recieve the attention and respect that you think that you are entitled to...try examining your own posts to consider why.

Dove, it all boils down to the respect with which you treat others around here, and you know it. There are plenty of greasespotters around here that do not subscribe to the view point that you described who are treated with the respect that they have EARNED. Unfortunatly....some times the folks who want to defend the ministry tend to do so with a massive chip on their shoulder .... their privelige, but don`t expect folks to want to engage you in conversation or give your pov any credence. Personally, I think that if the pro ministry supporters weren`t so rabid in their personal attacks, I might be able consider that their religious pov was healthy or had merrit.

Yeah, Fog ...we stand or fall by nothing more than the merit of what we write here. No name tags .... Regardless of the whining and insults...accusations and lables one wants to assigne when their posts are not well recieved..... the respect you garner for yourself or your pov pure and simple relies ENTIRELY upon you yourself and what you chose to bring to the table. It is childish imo, to blame everybody else when your pov isn`t well recieved

Wow, that is very very sad :( No repentance? No apology, NO asking forgiveness? Craig simply needs to find his error and everything will be hunky dory??? Oh my word, I wonder how GOD feels about people who use his scriptures and their authority as Christian leaders to hurt and destroy ...and what HE requires in order to be forgiven and grant restitution. I feel so bad for the idealistic youngsters who believe these lies :( Yet another foolish generation to become enslaved by means of their big hearts and unselfish idealism. I think that this is one of the most discouraging posts that I have ever read.

Pipes, we go through different stages in our recovery.....it is truly like losing a family member to death or suffering through a viscious divorce. Many times you will grieve, be angry, mourn your loss, all different emotions experienced at different satges of recovery. You have been in a major battle for your life. You have spent years in survival mode, years thinking, planning, finally the drama of escape....the fears accompanied with leaving, the battle to understand what went wrong.... Now that all of the turmoil has had time to die down....maybe you don`t know what to do with all of that energy needed to survive and escape. You do not have someone saying that you need to do a b c anymore....you aren`t getting together classes or preparing for fellowship ... This is hard to explain......but when I left...I was miserable and scared because I didn`t know how I was going to know where God wanted me or what he needed me to do... There were no more classes to recruit people for or events to plan for. I no longer had my sense of self worth...that measuring stick utilized in twi....who CARED if I was a 2x wow vet....who CARED if I was corpes spouse....nobody knew or cared what classes I have had.... It is all very complicated, even harder to describe.....but we have been through some life altering changes.....it takes time to sort them all out..... Feeling guilty for doing things we enjoy, or that we must remain*disciplined* or that in doing the things benefitial we are neglecting *responsibilities* is carry over from our twi days.

Wasn`t it referred to by vp as an *immutible* (sp?) law? Doesn`t that mean it always works and doesn`t change?

Well it doesn`t matter what we personally *vote* or think ckmkeon, The *fruit* in vp`s life says it all.

Ick...I stand corrected oldiesman and beg your pardon.....That could definatly be taken to mean that it id ok to use God`s grace as our license to sin... :(

Umm mike, I don`t think that you are looking at all ...

Congratulations on your promotion Raf! Glad that the *myth* of believeing was proven a bust in this case :)

Because this IS silly ....lol LOOOOOY I am your FAAAAther ....together WEEEE can rule God`s very elect C`ept NOW we know that rozilla ..or should I say DARTH Zilla ...who was really the dark Sith lord all along.....cleverly hidden behind the scenes pulling the strings and manipulating to get herself into the seat of the power....lol Anybody else picture her in a robe with her head covered and the tip of her nose sticking out?. You know with Sith lords...there are always two...a master and an apprentice.... wonder who her apprentice is <_<

I was thinking the same thing da fog.... Wolfs posts were chrystal clear, and made some very valid points....but I suppose personal insults are what one must resort to when unable to intellegently counter a point. Pretty despicable to compare vpw and Luther...Oldies, I have never heard Luther accused of rape, fornicatio, adultery....using the scriptures to extort money, services and goods in God`s name.

Guys, I think that they place all of these requirements and obsticles in peoples paths in order for them to feel like they have accomplished something huge....something to feel really special, even superior about. I think that they need to make themselves feel very important and this is a way to accomplish this. What ELSE do they have to feel good about? TWI has to manufacture their OWN measuring stick to gauge success....since by every indication in the scripture and by the world is that they are not prosperous, superior, more spiritual....etc. They have to have something to feel good about.

Well the way people behave (fruit exhibited) whom subscribe to wierwilles teachings wherever he got them, is an ideal indication as to the spiritual healthiness of what they subscribe to. You can fling around all of the scriptures from any source you chose....and still be an ugly piece of work (of the flesh) as we witnessed in twi.

ckmkeon....you just accused a great many people of lying, some of them personal friends of mine..........not that you would care......it is so much easier to remain in denial than to honestly examine and address the truth. John Lynn has admitted that the drugging of young women went on.....might as well add HIM to your list of hundreds of people that you have labled liars as well... Go ahead ..insult our sisters in Christ yet again.....accuse everyone else of lying......remain safelty cocooned in your blissfull ignorance. ... The bible verses you fling around do not hide your callousness...

Not taught by a false prophet? ROFL.... Just what do you think false prophets teach or where do you imagine their information comes from??? Geeze friend if their destructive doctrine was not cleverly disguised .... they couldn`t fool folks

I used to have the loose teeth dream all of the time....and then they would keep breaking and falling out all throughout the dream...I can litterally feel each one breaking and choke on the pieces...I am always horrified.... It is funny though, they stopped entirely after I went to the dentists and had a lot of work done. I don`t know why, but I haven`t had any trouble since.

Look out... you make some very good points...however I would see it as no different than my wealthy Uncle who refuses to give any money to his drug addicted daughter....not because she isn`t loved or they want to deny her.... They will pay her rent directly to the land lord...will pay her grocery bills, directly to the store....etc. She simply isn`t in her right mind, she will not use it to benefit herself....just invest in more self destructive behavior.. The money just enables her to indulge in her addictive behavior all the more so. It infuriates her, no doubt....but it is necessary for her well being.

Another thing to consider....I don`t know how you feel about your bro in law.....but if their marriage is typical of so many in twi....Your sister really won`t have much input into the disposition of the money anyway. All of those decisions are made by the Husband /head of household....and the wives abide by the decisions no matter how stupid, or contrary to her desires, in order to be considered virtuous, not rebellious...etc :( A trust fund is a very good idea if it can be managed. If they ever leave twi....they will be pleased to have that money instead of having *%^#*ed it all away when they were under the influence of unsavory characters.

Lol my husband was deeply disturbed to recieve his invitation to join aarp.....almost as disturbing as it was to me to realize I was married to someone old enough to belong!! Z ... I find it difficult that I have to compete in the *senior* division as well in karate. Also disturbing ...my *baby* will be 18 this year ...MAN I cannot figure out when THAT happened....I still feel like I am a *new* mother :( The last 18 yrs snuck up on me along with the extra 50 lbs I have some how aquired :(

My husband used to freak out because I couldn`t cook without a recipe. He even went so far as to hide my measuring cups and spoons to get me to be a little more flexible :blink: Anyway....now I cook by *guesstimation* and actually it is pretty good most of the time :) What is funny is now I drive my mother insane if she sees me cook....you ought to hear her ....*omg you didn`t pre heat the oven BEFORE.. you put that casserole in there ???? *Oh LORD....you didn`t use CAMBELLS tomato soup in your recipe....nope great value brand wont be as good...youve RUINED the meal*...lol I am the rule follower in our house...I used to have anxiety attacks because he didn`t. It is like he is stuck in teenager mode....always having to rebel just out of general principle I suppose that is wht we balance each other out.

It sound like your area was a little more relaxed then mine Free from cults.... I was in the class less than a month after meeting the wows and on the wow field less than 3 months after that.....The pressure never let up for the next 10 yrs. There was always something else that God needed/wanted/required of me .... too not comply meant to dissapoint God and to be at risk spiritually and physically.

I still have a green card TOO! I suppose they could try to *deliver* us all :)

So now let me understand.....When you asked the question you really didn`t want an answere or care what we thought? Was it just a chance for you to scold us with verses? Are you trying to help people? Are you trying to reprove people? Does quoting scripture make your point more valid? Do you give a damn at all? Not that an answere is necessary, but sometimes it helps in understanding where a poster is coming from and understand the point that they are trying to make.

I guess that you can`t *hear* us :(