rascal

It wasn`t presented to us as a *career* choice ...but as a way to be our best servant for God in whatever endeavor we embarked on. Martindale at the roa corpes promo touted it as THE best way to be OUR best for God....the crap about positions wasn`t ever addressed. We just thought that we would learn to best serve/represent God :( Our pure intentions got us there and once in...we found out that the definitions had all changed....I like Groucho, wish that I had left when I realised what was really being required....but by then we were made to feel honor bound to observe what we were then told that we had committed/vowed to God to complete.

Who the he ll knew that preperation for a *life time of christian service* meant that to not complete the program was to lie to God??? Who knew that if God forbid that you decided to marry or decided once in, that you or they were found not equipped or got pregnant ... you would be breaking a vow with consequences to befall as significant as annanias and saphira? How in the he ll would we know that in signing up for corpes for that life time of christian service that God would require that we keep the commitment at all cost right down to aborting our children??? It isn`t in there....and very few who knowing how the meaning would be changed once signed up would have ever made the unbreakable vow to God in the first place.

When I went to corpes promos in the 80s, they said that going corpes was to help you be the spiritually BEST for God in every catagory.... The lifetime of Christian service was in every aspect of our lives....a chance to be our best representative and servant ....it wasn`t untill AFTER I had signed up that I found out that it was viewed as an oath or a committment to God...unbreakable under any circumstances....' There was no changing our minds no changing our cricumstances ...failing in any catagory to succede in tuition/physical list/ catagory was not an option ...even if the classes required had never been offered in any state that you had ever lived in.... no matter what the circumstances.... it was viewed as having broken a vow ...LIED to God all mighty ...with consequences possibly as severe as annanias and saphira (talk about cher fine print) I am serious...the day you signed that line it gave them license to require anything of you. I was required to move twice that year...subjected to face meltings....required at every event limb/corpes/witnessing....and it was a big suprise when I fell short with the tuition...geeze ...though I had followed all orders and done everything required ..... I just wasn`t believing God enough... The only way to redeem my sinfull/slothfull self was to go wow in order to *grow* to the point of being spiritually *mature* enough to honor my commitment to God the following year.

?? So you cannot point to any real bruised egos? That was just a lable to place on folks in general to justify your behavior towards them and inability to answere questions and address issues raised? It sounds like you need to put an unflattering lable on people in order to make yourself look good or you position superior. As far as in your face with great disrespect....THAT is a lie pure and simple ...I don`t suppose you can substantiate that statement by provide a single line where I have treated you with anything OTHER than respect..... any more than you can point at who has a bruised ego. You are not able to address honest questions, so you must denegrate posters so that they don`t appear to deserve and honest reply ... is how you appear to be.

Wow! Do you suppose that they will be earnestly apologizing to John S. for castigating and throwing him out when HIS research paper said the same thing? No doubt they are beating a path to his door as we type to invite him back. There are some people who were thrown out twi for personally confronting craiggers on that very issue....I know some who were thrown out for not complying with craigs demand for sex while he was a married man........I suppose their apology/invitations are forthcoming in the mail as well Patriot, you are too funny. On a serious note, I am glad that they are teaching this *officially* however, I am suprised that they had to...most christians know better anyway.

Welccome Amazing Grace. Glad you found us here :) I think that is part of the legacy of the way....many of us find it difficult to fellowship with the rest of the body of christ because of the arrogance that we gained with the knowledge we learned in twi. I know that I personally was very judgemental and rude at church thinking I that I knew so much more than those poor boobs. It took me years to discover and tons of love and patience on their part ..... that these folks were so far ahead of me in the things that really mattered..... These folks though they never heard of 4 crucified were incredibly kind and generous....living charity in every sense of the word, patient, longsuffering, meek. In otherwards these christians whom I deemed myself so superior to were manifesting the fruit of the spirit that Scriptures tell us that we will *know each other by* in a way that even with all of twi`s knowledge...was strangly absent from so many of their leaders daily lives. I don`t think our knowledge or beliefs from twi mean much anymore given the fruit manifested by those proclaiming them to be truth....I hope that you are able to enjoy your church, apreciate the christians good and bad that you will find, and enjoy each one of their unique perspectives .....who knows, they might have something wonderfull to teach you as well.

Tell it Mt top! :) God IS alive and well ...and we certainly don`t have to put up with the absolute crap that we were assaulted with in twi, order to enjoy his healing presence in our lives. How good to hear about your deliverance and healing ....Sure proves that twi doesn`t have a corner on God eh.

I have noticed NO bruised egos here Mike....thus my question, is my perception at fault? I asked WHO felt bruised and nobody has been forth coming, I wondered if it was an exageration on your part to enforce your position, or a mistaken assumption. I ask again...specifically....who do you believe has a bruised ego? It would seem that you accuse/lable people of this so that you do not have to address their input. It does not seem very honest.

WHO are the bruised egos to which you are refering Mike? Is this your ego speaking? Are you doing the bruising? I don`t get it. The rest of us appear to simply be discussing the topib at hand. Could you be mistaken?

Welcome mountain top, my experience has been the same as yours.... The freedom enjoyed outside of twi`s confines has been exhilerating. In 10 yrs since leaving, I have yet to attend a church who overstepped the bounds of propriety and standard of decency as was practiced in twi.

Welcome sprawled out, glad that you find greasespot so amusing :) Mike, so far the only ego I have seen on this thread is yours.....I must be unusually dense, as I haven`t detected any bruising either. Please, who is bruised? .....Tom? Clay? Please speak up now so that we can apologise.

Cowardice...now THAT is a word that I missed in my resounding condemnation of my cheaters....lol

Seems a rather grandiose title for yourself to me. .... The perception of yourself a *teacher* here to educate is pretty unrealistic. This isn`t your class room, and no one here is your pupil. You are nothing more than a fellow poster, on this thread.....your ideas to be bandied about and evaluated by all who participate. I am very interested in hearing Tom`s points as well as dooj`s, Clay Dave, ex 10 and so many other insightfull people here .... they present great counter points to your position. Contrary to your percetion that they are distractions....they are the ones posting scripturally sound arguments against your premise. No point in preaching and lecturing ....nobody is having any of it....Come off of your pedistal and join in the interaction with your fellow posters. You might see the hand of God at work.

Wow patriot, brilliant analogy .... You know too that as much as they ignore it and pretend that it isn`t there..wish that it would all go away.....it always is still present......the evil under the carpet....is like a bloating stinking carcas ......everyone knows it is there, can smell the stenche....nobody is fooled by the pretense... I agree, an apology is all that it would take.... then we could see that twi was honest, that they had integrety, that their care for people out weighed their fear of loss of revenue..... That would go a long way in demonstrating that the people who facilitated the evil, whom aided in shutting people up ...who are STILL there running the show ...has developed come character and morals. Untill then it is just the ssdd...

The sentiments posted were a heartfelt and honest answere to your question, ckmkeon. Your reply was like a kick in the teeth. I am sorry that I bothered. Excathedra, I think that you have nailed it dead center. Thankyou Tom Strange.

Tom it became a big issue when I fell in to the toilet with a splash in the dark one night. Also, little children in a hurry to potty don`t always look...also resulting in some falls in the potty. I suppose in our house spouse started keeping the lid down when there were little ones to consider....I suppose that it was easier than listening to my shrieks of frustration and anger :)

Thanks cw, I love that song....glad you brought it back to memory ..and I didn`t know who sang it...am glad to know that as well. Maybe I misunderstood the type of meddeling that you were speaking of, and dashed off on a tangeant...if I did, I am sorry. I guess that the other thread has dug up a suprising amount of anger concerning selfish people ....n I let it bleed onto this one as well. In re reading I think that this kind of meddeling wasn`t what you were talking about. Sorry.

Free Lady...Welcome nice to meet you :)

Many of us feel bad ckmkeon, because we see ourselves in you. Young, idealistic, valiant for the truth, laying it all on the line for God. We experienced our youth and vitality taken and used by unscrupulous men who claimed to represent God`s will. ...our trusting hearts vilely betrayed. You blindly support the people that were in charge of twi .... the leaders that abused us. They are unworthey of your defense, of your respect.....they took the fruits of our honest labor and used it to fill their bellies. You are embarked in what you believe is a noble cause.... They depended on youth and exhuberance ... it is what they hide behind ....just like they did us....YOU, like us at one time .... are who the public, the new people will see your integrety and honor .... it will give legitimacy to a flawed doctrine.... I am sad that unbeknownst to you....your good intentions and pure heart are being used to promote an organization and doctrine headed by evil people :(

I am truly sorry George. Please hear me....You ARE worthey damn it. I am sorry that your partner just didn`t see it. I sure hope that you are right....I think that the only thing that has held us together enough to make these changes ... is that niether could raise the kids alone....and both having experienced growing up in broken homes, we were resolved to set aside our issues untill the kiddoes were adults. No, you are right...it`s not easy, not glamerous, not fun, not romantic....but we felt more important then seeking personal satisfaction. That in and of itself has proved in the end to be ultimately satisfying. I think that maybe both of us have more respect for each other knowing that we can depend on one another no matter how we personally feel at the time......maybe there in lies the strength that you talk about.

Having experienced the brutal reality of living in a family where a woman not only indulged in an adulterous afair ...but lured a father away from his family and four kiddoes. They always thought quite a lot of themselves.... They would unthinkingly say the most rediculous things......They called me one day and she brightly announced that they were celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary....I was struck dumb...what was it she wanted me to say?? She acted like I should have acknowledged or remembered...... Congratulations??? Geeeez o Pete... I remember that day 25 years ago....when they finally manuvered my resisting mom into a divorce....they called her the DAY it was final to brightly announce their marriage....They were so cruel..I remember my Mom screaming into the phone ...to bury the axe just a little bit deeper next time and fleeing the room in tears.... Oh he ll yeah, I had a whole lot to celebrate there......the final nail in the coffin of what HAD been a happy family of 6. They would call me wanting my children for a visit to fla....not me mind you or my spouse....just send my little ones please....one time when they were pressuring me over the phone and she had the NERVE to say....*come on Cathy, you KNOW that we are good parents....I about choked before I hung ...desperatly befor all of the sh it poured outta my mouth that I was threatening to vomit all over them....chiefly....oh yeah I know good parents abandon their young children to raise themselves every DAY....they run off to enjoy exotic adventures all over the world...ignoring their off spring for years at a time.... SCUSE me....but GOOD parents are usually capable of identifying their children if they meet on the streets ....something I seriously doubt they could have done when they only visited every 3 years.... My point? The people who indulge in adulterous affairs are incredibly self centered and absorbed in what is important to them and them alone.....the whole world revolves around what they need and what makes THEM happy....to he ll with how this impacts anybody else....To the day this woman died...she always had to mark her territory .... put everyone in their place....let everyone know that SHE was first and foremost..... She always found some way to let us know what ill mannered little urchins that we were...sniffing with disaproval.... Neither one of these people has EVER acknowledged the pain their selfishness caused...Even today, my fathers solel regret was that he didn`t get to know his kiddoes a little better when they were growing up....not because of the impact of his loss on OUR lives....but because of what he personally missed... So now he is on a mission to enjoy his grandkids in a way that he never managed with his own It`s still all about him. That about sums up people who indulge in adulterous affairs. I don`t give a damn that you are a dishonerable person with no moral character or standard...that is your problem..... it takes a special brand of selfishness though, to indulge in your pleasure KNOWING that you are betraying someone elses trust...and doing it with a person that is of such low moral standard as to be doing it to the person that he vowed to cherish and protect...........but damn you ... if there are kids involved it is inexcusable to destroy their world for your *good time*. I have no respect for that under any circumstances.

Yeah n I I don`t have to feel less spiritual or disapointing to God when I disagree with the satus quo either :) FreeFromCults...lol my friend says it THIS way...and I have adopted her mantra to be mine as well... *Living well IS the best revenge*! Let em gnash their teeth and froth at the mouth ... making excuses for why our lives give EVERY indication of God`s hand of blessing and prosperity in our lives....They have to have SOMETHING to blame their misery on.

Diazbro, You explained my position precisely.

Damned RIGHT we`d like each other dooj :) I hope that you don`t think I am fighting.....Like most here, I am searching/evaluating/considering. After nearly a life time of doing what people say *I oughtta* just because they think that it is a good idea ......with at times tragic results.....being forced into unGodly actions by a spiritual bully wielding bible verses....having to submit to unGodly treatment because of misapplied or poorly understood scriptures....I have gotten a bit muleish in my old age... I tend to dig in my heels untill I understand fully. There will be no more going against my better judgement putting things on the *back burner* so to speak.

Dearest (((dott))) I am laughing here....you JUST described my little slice of heaven...(cept I only have 7 dogs n 4 cats).... Yeah I have to share it with the 7 kids and the husband.....so it isn`t always *quiet* I guess you cannot have everything :) Although MY guys are all trained to keep the lid down since one of the little ones fell in and waking up to mama`s ear splitting shrieks when SHE fell in the dark....lol Your statement about being married but being alone struck a chord with me ...I have been there....the deepest lonliest place to be .... and no cheating was never attractive to me either. I knew what it had done to my mother and her 4 small children.... I one time yelled at my spouse that in marrying me and then refusing to love...he had condemned us both to an entire lifetime without love...and damn him it just wasnt fair. Cheating has never been an option, guess we were both too tired....lol ...But something strange has begun to happen...I don`t know if we are growing up or what but in the last year things have turned around. It all started with him reading a book... Anyway...instead of viewing his family as how much we *cost* him every day...what we consume in groceries...how much gas did I burn up in the car....how high our feed bill is....all of a sudden we are being viewed and apreciated as an asset. I don`t know exactly what I am trying to say....except that maybe after 20 years of toughin it out...maybe just maybe I am hoping that we might be going to reap some benefit. I can only hope.