rascal

FIRST off JL, think about it....the people you listed as examples in the scriptures one and ALL were NATURAL men...each and every one of tem lived before the new birth was available...what was expected of them as natural men verses what is expected of a man of spirit is entirely different ...no? Sooo we could quite concievably still be in agreement here ... :) SECOND of all JL, You being OFFERED sex freely by a peer is an entirely DIFFERENT scenario and has absolutely no bearing on the drugging and rape of teenaged girls by vpw as their minister. THIRD of all JL, YOU responded apropriatly...YOU found it abhorant to break the vows you made to your wife...which leads me to believe that YOU are probably a genuine Christian that has been changed on the inside with a life impacting new birth that made your integrety and character of more importance than your personal physical satisfaction :) I believe that vpw believed what he taught, I believe that he believed that he was entitled whatever he wanted regardless of the impact on other lives....I just don`t believe he was a genuine Christian.

ROFLMAO Dove...I can just SEE the headlines now...*mysterious thief makes off with all of the carriage horses in the kc area* ....apb is issued to be on the look out for a suspicious stranger trying to drive a mixed herd of horses in a southernly direction....

VPW from the very inception of his ministry was looking for ways to manipulate the scriptures to fit his way of thinking. He just searched and searched untill he could find some obscure teacher some where to make things fit the way he thought they oughtta. 'I don`t think he EVER was a genuine christian....one that actually experienced that life changing in spirit action of the new birth......A genuine Christian just simply doesn`t destroy without compunction the way he did....there is something fundamentally different inside that makes such actions abhorrant to a true Christian. As far as a will to help??? It wasn`t *free sex* of the sixties that caused him to FORCE himself upon our teenaged sisters in the 70s .......it wasn`t not being able to handle the *ego stroking* that inspired him to utterly destroy the life and reputation of the poor 17 yr old girl who refused his attentions ... It was pure unadulterated EVIL couched in Christian terms and ideas that enabled this man to operate with impunity. Personally, I think that most people just don`t like to face the fact that we were snookered by the very devil that we thought we were so much smarter than....It is EVER so much nicer to paint a pretty face over the entire picture and pretend that we are all still so speeeecial

Awwww (((((Belle)))) So much to say.... It is SO awsome that you were able to strike out against twi instead of just slinking off into oblivion like so many of us did when we left. I am moved to tears at what you had to sacrifice under the auspices of being an honorable wafer.... Your ability to rally the forces and deflect suspicion ...lmao... I liked that you managed to turn the tables and interview pawtucket for a bit :) Paw.....I, like a two yr old that who is perpetually demanding and NEVER satisfied lol.....think that we need a THIRD installment....I want to hear how and when Belle finally gave twi the finger....I want to know what happened when folks found out that Belle was the infamous *insurgent*!!! Paw I thought it was so funny that you knew exactly when/where/how twi was *infiltrating* the boards here.. Thanks guys....Thanks for this sharing of yourself Belle :)

Wow...oh WOW ..Topof the world... *made it ok not to care* omg that is IT!!! I agree with ex10 THANK YOU Topper for a major piece of the puzzle falling into place for me as well. (pardon me a miniute while lights are flashing .... bells and sirence ringing) This makes it easier to understand where I was ... why I could do the things that I did....why what I was proud of then brings me such shame today...sigh It just doesn`t matter HOW much scripture that twi taught us...adherance to the doctrine tended to make us real boogers for the most part. If you think about it.....The *nice* folks tended to the rebels...the ones who shielded people and protected them from the worst....they were the ones that truly cared. The stricter one adhered to twi dogma, the more anal, legalistic and uncaring they eventually became.

Welcome Sabine!!! And what a great first post it is!!! I think what you described about feeling how it was our fault for not preforming up to twi standards....has afflicted us all in one way or another while we were in twi...I think you just summerized twi involvement in a nut shell! If our prayer was unanswered.... If our health was poor... If we lacked material abundance... If we didn`t have tuition together in time for corpes.... Every shortcoming was always viewed to be our fault.....it certainly couldn`t have been that the doctrine was faulty or the expectations rediculously impossible I am sure sorry that you were made to feel bad for so long.....

I find it astonishing that someone could summarily dismiss Jesus`s clear words and warnings, john ...You presume to be a Christian but rationalise a way to reject the very words Jesus Christ spoke ....go figure I suppose that is the whole trouble with twi teachings....the idea that ...... well ....YEAH...the bible DOES clearly say that...but it certainly doesn`t mean ME!

BRILLIANT Belle! These guys...the good Christians of twi ...any who were a blessing to people ....were simply the cover that evil hid behind imo....They lent a sense of wholesomeness that wierwille was able to hide his evil practices behind. They/we were used .... the camoflauge that hid the snare....the scriptures were the bait for the trap.... laid to entrap the unwarey, to place them in bondage. Proverbs says something about ...in vein is the snare set in sight of the quarry.... Without the cover of Christianity...I seriously doubt wierwille could have perpetrated his crimes.

Scripturally, vpw `s behavior completely eliminates him as a leader ...further more advises us to stay away from folks like him...I`d have to say that would be a pretty convincing argument as to why his teachings would be suspect as well. You simply cannot live as a man of the flesh and expect to accuratly understand the things of the spirit and how scripture would apply.

My opinion? I don`t think that he ever was a genuine Christian......... Whether he knew it himself or not...even with all of his scriptural knowledge...He was a fraud.......one simply does NOT behave as he did if you have the spirit of God working within you.

Seems to me that if they had been real....God would have been telling us to get the heck outta there :( In 15 years....it always seemed like the same old same old...I am God you are my dearly beloved children...stand fast on my word.....I did it because that was what was expected of me....never saw what was so all fired great about it.....I was always uncomfortable when new folks were around because it always felt so cheesey. It makes sense though, if wierwille was not a genuine minister... I guess that manifestations as he understood and taught them would not be genuine either.....a clever counterfit, I suppose

Yeah it really sucks to live in your own completly paid for home....what a drag to have to find other ways to spend that rent/mortgage money these days :) Sigh ... How dismal the consequences of not being permitted to dwell in the household of the sanctified

Wooohoo Belle! I knew that you had been in a huge struggle while in twi. The dark frustrating days of someone trying so hard to do what was right. It is amazing to hear what you went through.... You sure were gutsy....I never dared disobey leadership or spouse. I remember your different gs personalities....how I loved each one of you...never knowing that they were all the same person....I worried so over each of you as you dropped off the radar.....lol. Girl, you are one brave strong lady...It is hard to hear the details of your struggle to remain honorable...the fight to save your marriage.... The details of how controlling, the lack of compassion, demonstrate once again what an ugly organization twi is.... How unworthey they all were of your efforts. I am eagerly awaiting the second installment :)

I have seen prayers answered on this sight :)

You have been treated very VERY well ck.....as is most anybody who manages to communicate with respect and common decency. Step over that line by calling folks here liars and minimalizing what was endured .... and don`t be suprised when you catch a little flack.

Me too Belle... I really don`t understand what you want from or expect from us ck.. This man raped my sisters, this man stole from my brothers, this man`s friends and hand picked leaders hurt my friends and their children deeply..... Read this...try to let it sink in...... Lives were LOST families utterly and irrevocably DESTROYED... and YOU want to come in here waving your ignorant finger in our faces...acting like it is no big deal...wanting us to close our eyes and pretend that it never happened? Telling us that GOD has closed his eyes???? Like it was unimportant...that the devistation is some how acceptible??? Well...... It ain`t going to happen...what you ask is niether honorable or biblical.... I like you ck, I think that you believe that what you are doing is noble....I have been there...I respect your zeal....what I have no use for is your decision to remain true to a false standard and to try to hold others to a standard manufactured by a monster who stole from innocent trusting Christians. Wierwille gave God and Christianity a huge black eye....his betrayal so outragious as to perminantly alienate many from the true God. Oh, and as far as greasespot? If you don`t find healing here Buddy....it`s because YOU haven`t looked friend. There is more Godly learning/healing/growth/joy to be found here in these forums than in the decade plus that I spent in twi. All this joy and growth and nobody demanding money or raping my sisters....go figure

Well...Mark O, the picture is disturbing...shiver....but I think really makes a great point. Wierwille himself certainly made a mockery of God, Jesus and scripture when utilizing all three to lure so many into misery and bondage ... It requires a real artist to take the tools God no doubt intended as an aid to us in our spiritual journey ...and instead use them as cunning weapons to inflict so much pain and destruction :(

Thanks so much for askin Garth...we are well :) All kids critters and spouse accounted for ..... It was pretty scarey for a while...we watched two funnels form overhead...but they dropped on the other side of us and went on to destroy quite a lot on the other side of the interstate...we spent a lot of time hunkered down in the bathroom There was another on the ground that was headed right for us....Thank you to those of you in chat who kept us in your prayers....it simply evaporated before striking us.... All night long tornaodes would be spotted heading for us only to veer north or south... I worried because there was simply no way to fit the dogs cats cockatoo 9 horses into that one small shelter ...lol Thanks for asking, thanks guys for the prayers. We are well, glad to hear that you weathered it ok down in H`ville... it was supposed to get rough in my old stomping grounds by Grissom.

ck,as far as I can see....it is YOU who are doing the persecuting here on this sight. It is YOU who are slandering by continuing to intimate that the people here whom have personal experience and first hand knowledge of vpw `s evil ..... *MAY* be liars. Honestly, it suprises me when people are NOT deeply offended once beginning to discover the depths of evil practiced on our innocent bretheren by vpw personally.... It suprises me when people want to minimalise the enormity of the sin and betrayal practiced upon YOUR Christian brothers and sisters... Really, I think your disgust should be reserved for the man/men who drugged raped and stole in God`s name....not those who were so visciously victimized and defamed. You are talking here to the men and women who`s lives and reputations were ravaged and destroyed by this man..... Men and women mostly teenagers at the time even younger than yourself who simply were seeking with pure hearts to know and serve God ...... Let me tell you buddy...you simply arent GOING to find a lot of positives said about a man .....a ravening wolf who led so many of so many of us so far astray from the love of God :( How about this....I will just forgive you for your demonstrated lack of compassion by insisting on singing the praises of this beast to those who`s lives that he personally ravaged.....and for refusing to understand the suffering endured directly at the hands of this criminal and his lackies?

Good job Peelers, TWI thrives because too few have the guts and stamina to stand up and hold twi accountible for their dishonesty. Thanks for the update jkboehme :)

Not unpopular sprawled out....but perhaps a bit limiting in my view. What works well for you personally, might necesarely always work as well for another.... I spent 5 years with no way/ex way contact ....and didn`t manage to move on ... still mantained the same thought processes, never occured to me that I could be mistaken in my perceptions and beliefs....in short stayed in my well worn rut. I need to examine what I think, why I think, why do I view something as important or not....why I accept or believe something as truth.... Greasespot is a great place to lay all of the issues on the table and discuss it with people that are on the same journey. I learn to think about why I feel a certain way...and be able to think logically and articulate my thoughts. Sometimes when I get them out in print...I realise how just plain silly they are....or read someone elses pov and realise that they have a great insight into what I am wresteling with.... This place is a way to get crap out of my head and on to the table to examine the merit or discard. Your suggestion of outside activities is vitally necessary in the growth process....pick an activity...anything to stretch you imagination and ingenuity beyond our current boundaries.........I just didn`t want to discount out of hand the value to be found here. :)

AMEN TL!! :)

Ahhh silly me....I thought that they were just trying to be a blessing to people with their wealth of wisdom....sigh. It sounds like all of the *free* mailings sent have simply been with a goal geered towards helping me decide whether or not I wanted to stand with and support their ministry... groan... Can`t ANYTHING be done simply on behalf of sharing scripture without it being a means to an end...ie upping their membership? How dissapointing :(

BRILLIANT!!

Linda, we have fed our dogs Old Roy premium (walmarts store brand) for twenty years with good results. It is inexspensive and compairs protien vitamine wise with most name brands and sometimes even better. Their coats are good and do not get ill. My bouvier lived to 13 on it and my shepherds are into their teens with no health issues. Sometimes we mix in others if they are on sale...but we always check the ingrediants and protien levels. As far as brands in a grocery store... I agree with abi/sushi pedigree is very good. My mother on the other hand has fed a particular name brand religiously that is pretty expensive and lost two of her shepherds to cancer. Designer brands are nice if you have 1 dog or small ones...but when you have multiple large dogs it just isnt` possible.