rascal

Absolutely Ydon`tugotochurch.... apparently though, that is the effect of past fellowship with twi that has had on so many souls...sigh and secondly doggone it...just what in the world are those damaged people doing having opinions anyway???? and THIRDLY, how dare they be allowed to express them?? It is an OUTRAGE for me to have participated on this thread today (said in my best vpw immitaion) ......no just kidding.... It is unpardonable that we haven`t appropriatly met your fellowship needs either dear. Seriously.....Why not come into live chat and *meet* some of us there....lots of great fellowship to be had.... really... damaged goods though we arguable may be :)

Sorry that was just how I read it...and sorry for apparently over reacting..... I am just plain sorry when a reputable nice guy like Jonny L would send a person in the direction of a monster like Geer....without them first learning what peoples experiences with geer were who posted here. I am sorry that I am just such an effin bitch.

Lol...Belle, thanks for trying to help....You dear lady, I wish I could see me as you do.....Sorry to be so damned pig headed stubborn.....it comes from 25 years of sit down shut up you don`t know sheet. Maybe I AM over reacting and you guys are the unfortunate recipients of all of those years of pent up opinions finally exploding out.... Someday maybe I will run out of steam and someday maybe I won`t be so hyper sensative to percieved slights and insults ...but untill then I guess you will have to grit your teeth and endure my input for a bit longer ... Thanks for seeing the best in people Belle, I will try as well.

You know Jonny L.... I DON`T like to start a fight or argue ..... I DO however tend to react rather strongly to slaps in the face.....which is how I viewed your comment concerning the first hand information on Chris Geer, not being important ..... what twinot would want to hear.........in my mind you are throwing down the gauntlet ie starting a fight by discrediting all of the valuable insight and accounts of the posters whom had shared first hand info on his known viscious cruelty in these threads. No, instead you want to discount the info here.... and send someone to a person that hawks Chris Geers class....like ANYBODY is going to get accurate information from THAT source. Hey no doubt your buddy is a nice guy....we ALL were at one time and just look at the evil that managed to lurk behind our shiney fresh faced Christian facade....death and destruction misery bondage awaited many....once they were lured in by our wholesom appearance....and THIS man was directly responsible for some of the most heinous acts committed against our dear bretheren....... People need to know what is behind the scenes. ...View that as you may, and mischaracterise me if you must ...but I will not let comments discrediting our posters and their accounts slide by unchallenged.

On second thought though....TECHNICALLY, you are correct Jonny ... nobody HAS had anything *good* to say about geer on these boards, but I cannot imagine that one would want to remain unaware of what he was guilty of if contemplating involvement in his group. It is only fair to have all of the info available.

That was rather insulting JonnyL, Why wouldn`t the first hand information that people have shared in these forums not be of interest concerning Chris Geer? What is it that that posters related here that you don`t want twinot to see? The viscious way he was seen to have treated his wife? The unconscionably vulgar so called advice he was prone to give in the guise of marriage counceling? The insane things he did to the Gartmore resident corpes? Or is it about how it was reported by several of vpw`s victims, that a drink that Geere gave them at the motor coach was the last thing remembered before waking up in vpw`s bed with no clue how they got there? Oh yeah.... The drugging of vp`s unwilling victims was heresay... oops...EXCEPT we have a first hand account here AND drugging was confirmed to have happened by John Lynn. What is it that would you would consider unreliable? Why wouldn`t you want people aware of this info...and WORST of all, how could you send somebody in the direction to become involved in ANYthing this puke masquerading as a minister was responsible for creating? Oh yeah, I suppose twinot is going to get a REAL acurate impression of Geere by a guy who is hawking his class...

Allan, you are the biggest victim of all as a refugee from twi and you don`t even know it. The scriptures you learned rather than bringing you to God and filling you with spirit ...developing you into a man of decency, compassion and character, have instead been twisted and made you a visciously poisonous little man............just a cruel miserable little soul who delights in stalking and throwing stones ....never content unless you are hurting someone....... such a shame :( You sir, are ugly on the inside.

Not hatefull, just a product of adherance to a religion developed by a *ravening wolf* I suppose if I don`t mind being called *fattie* ..... Allan won`t mind being called *brain washed mind numbed zombie* . I can offer you all kinds of help for that ugliness TOO Allan ...There are good Christians every where that could offer you a spiritually wholesome diet....healthy spiritual exercise.... You KNOW that you get in this condition by years of ingesting too much garbage .....*I* think that it is time YOU begin a spiritually healthy life style before the poison you currently consume kills you friend. Honestly Allan dear, you would feel SO much better if you started living as a genuine spirit filled Christian...Not to mention you`d be a a whole lot easier on the heart :) I suppose though that if you are *happy* being a cultie christian wannabe.... living of the flesh but pretending that you are of the spirit........then you had better wear your badge of honor as well. No, it ain`t nice ...I didn`t even like typing it....but hopefully it makes a point.

Well, as best I can recall, believers in general were not to attend...we were given no details about the where/when etc....no flowers etc. It was like we were supposed to pretend that it didn`t happen. TC`s were given a paragraph to read word for word and then we were not supposed to discuss it....just send everybody home...at least to the best of my recollection. I was completely bewildered wondering why we hadn` been given the oportunity to pray....you know 24 hrs of prayer ... it was all very confusing and secretive.

shiver

Naw sunny fla, not mad at you personally, yours was just the latest in a long line of posts from folks who seem to know what was best for others. You were disagreed with ...so what? It wasn`t personal or even an attack... Now....*I* think that it is time that you just put this behind you and moved on....You would feel so much better if you could find it in your heart to forgive us here....Better yet...it`s in the past...you need to just get over it...ok? Cool! No, that sucks big time...and this is precisely what we are talking about.

Wow cw, I hope you dont mind.....but what you just posted is ringing bells for me in other aspects of my life..... No I don`t care what people think of my figure or looks anymore, Heck someone asked if my best friend was my daughter not too long ago...lol, but I WAS very upset by an ugly mischaracterization of my motives and thoughts here at grease spot this weekend.... My spouse, no he doesn`t cheat....but he is argumentative and at times very difficult....it has taken 20 years not to take the ugliness personally and feel really bad.... My Mom is very nasty ... able to be particularly cruel in her nasty jibes..... There are just so many ways that people can make you feel *ugly* not just physically....but on the inside, wrecking your confidence, instilling doubt, convincing you that you are worthless....that your ideas have no merit. *People push their judgements, their solutions and their lack of self control over on others* This makes sense in so many other areas of my life...thanks cw.

I dunno Allan, but I can about garantee that with four karate classes of a couple hours each a week with all of the physical labor of mixing comcrete and digging that I do at work, not to mention the physically exhausting demands of working with livestock...fencing, mucking.....Have you ever hauled and hay out of the field and stacked it? I can just about bet that I am the most physically active person here....and yet with all of that and a reasonable diet, I am 75 lbs heavier than when I got married. I eat way less than when I was 105 and yet exercise to the point of physical exhaustian on a daily basis....and it makes no difference. That is what age/genetics and a slowing metabolism will do for you :( Dot, I am really suprised at how superficial people are...your friends stories are really sad. In MY opinion, a guy that would dump his wife over a few lbs sure wasn`t much of a husband anyway. What asses.

Belle, your spouse reminds me of mine....lol I remember him angrily growling at me onetime during our first year, that *you had DAMNED well not ever get fat* in a very ominous threatening sort of way..... I took him so seriously and absolutely accepted that he was right to feel that way fully believing the consequences would be harsh and justified.....lol we were such idiots. Problem was....whenever I got nice and skinny....I ended up preggers....go figure I am short so of course every lb shows.....after 7 children I`ll never have that svelt little figure I had bk (before kids). I do karate 5 hrs a week...more push ups and sit ups, jumping jacks, running you name it than anybody I know, dig fence posts, pour concrete, am carefull about what I eat, and am in the best physical shape with more capability than I have ever had in my life .....and yet I weigh nearly double my little twiggy 80s self. It is hard to reconcile my minds picture of myself and the gal I see looking back at me from the mirror. Solved that one though..... I don`t have any mirrors that show below the shoulders hee hee. My Mom is the worst.... I will work hard all day with little or nothing to eat and will sit down with a plate of sketti, only to have to listen to her go on about how I will never lose any weight if I keep eating pasta....or put cheese on it.....lord help me if I have a piece of bread.....(this from the woman who eats an entire giant bag of candy bars at one sitting....lol) Or I shouldn`t have that second slice of pizza....blah blah. I remember one summer, I worked hard, I walked 5 miles or more every morning and rowed around the lake every afternoon, I had no sweets or sugar and lost a pound a day for the entire summer....I wanted to suprise mark when I got home..... I was preggers within 3 weeks.....I have never tried since....who the hell has 24 hours a day to devote to exercise anyway? It costs extra money to buy the diet foods, I am talking veggies and salads....it costs money to buy the cloths and shoes that make you look good, it costs money for the nice hair and make up....money that spouse doesn`t want to part with....and he has a problem with the way I have let myself go??? He damned well better not say so to me grrrrr I have come to the place that it just plain doesn`t matter anymore what other people see.....because I am learning to like what is inside myself for the first time ever.... To my spouses horror...last month a had my hair shaved ...left a little on the top because I was wearing karate helmets, riding helmets, working in the viscious heat...and was becoming physically ill.........It was so funny, when Mark expressed his disgust.......I was suprise to find that it just didn`t matter...my mother moaned about how I looked so *dyke* ...I thought screw her, put on my favorite pair of ear rings slicked what was left of my hair back with gell and headed out the door head held high feeling like a million bucks :) Guys I am sorry for the cruel things people say.....some of you are so much more clever than me. Bow I`d like to thrash that neighbor for not seeing how beatifull you really are. Maybe offer her a gift certificate to the local optomotrist to get her eyes checked and some badly needed glasses??

Well said water buffelo, absolutely right.

I can only step back and marvel now, that twi was able to so completely convince me that God`s generosity and goodness were strictly regulated entirely by whether or not I tithed or how implicitly I followed twi`s doctrine. I can only wonder if God was grieving with me that night. as I could only assume that I had failed my horse, myself and my poor family. It was terribly hard on the children. So glad that I don`t need to be afraid any more.

Well, as fancifull and dramatic as you found my fears to be....I guess that I simply took the dangers that vpw`s and lcm`s teachings promised, a little more seriously than you did Oldies. It never dawned on me at the time that twi leaders and dogma could possibly be wrong. I remember that I was still going to fellowship (Mark had stopped) when one of my horses died a particularly horrific death after the vet and I had to remove the head from the foal while still in the uterous to deliver it in pieces....I was traumatized, as I had to do the cutting while the vet held her down ...... it was an unspeakably horrible experience.. and then we watched in sickness and devistation as the mare in cholic repeatedly flung herself head first into the wall untill she killed herself....It was a nightmare that lasted a full day and late into the night. When in shame, (knowing of course that when something bad happened it was because I had left a door open spiritually) while relating the incident to my tc the following week, I brokenly told her that I could only assume of course that it was my punishment, that the horse and her sweet foal had suffered the most excruciating of deaths because we weren`t tithing :( My believing had failed, My heartfelt prayers had gone unanswered, Satan had succeded. She meerly shook her head and said that it was very brave of me to be able to be able to face my personal responsibiliy and be so honest about it. I HATED my spouse for opening us up to that kind of horrors....I hated him for not letting me tithe even if he didn`t believe it.....I viewed it as HIS fault and a wake up call, and in truth worried constantly that it would be the children next if we didn`t. It was a long time before I could forgive him for what I percieved as putting all of our lives in jeopardy. It was probably not untill waydale a few years later that it began to occur to me that the *truth* I had been so very carefull to *hold fast* to, was wrong.

Oh Gosh...this was THE most terrifying part of leaving twi. My spouse REFUSED to tithe. I cried, I begged, I whined, to no avail. I was still constrained be the *he was the head of the household* teachings and that I couldn`t argue with his decisions.... I was TERRIFIED daily, I waited for Satan to kill one of the children, every little bump in the road Inumbly accepted as our just due for not tithing. I was sick with dread ...assuming that satan had been allowed to run rampant in our lives as we had been taught .... I thought in leaving twi, tithing would be our ace in the hole to keep the horrible consequences of no longer being in the household..... I just knew that it would be the *Job* story all over again... in the end mark would be broken and alone the kids and I all destroyed in one manner or another....and he would probably come to his senses....he would probably , like job, return to God and be blessed with a new family and even greater ritches.....too bad about the first one eh? Imagine my surprise when as the weeks and months passed, not only did we NOT die....our numbers began to increase (significantly) our prosperity increased....our lives blessed time and again..... It was a long time before the dread in my heart melted though and that I could beging to enjoy the generocity of God`s abundance. In Marks behalf, i did find out in later years about families he had supported when they were in bad need...individuals that needed a helping hand...he was very generous....it just wasn`t a structured tithe like we were told God required. Me, I try to take care of the animals and strays... I would have to say that my life was significantly better without the tithe....but being free to give where I saw need...and that isn`t always money. Some people and I know have made it our business to help an elderly neighbor operate her farm after she nearly died last year stuck in the freezing mud while trying to feed her horses. One of us carries her shopping, some of us haul hay for her from the loft and place it within easy reach for her....sometimes we haul her to the dr. We don`t even know each other...but feel that as a group we are doing God`s will, in keeping our neighbor out of a nursing home.

AHAA!!! You peeked :P ! CK, I accepted your apology in chat, having NO idea what you had done. You had said that it was a mix up...a mistake...ok ....cool. It wasn`t untill last night that I found out that you had deliberatly lied ... completely fabricating things I and another poster were supposed to have said about a third. The fact that I accepted your apology, in no way mitigates the fact that you lied...I can only surmise in an attempt to stir up trouble. Knowing this...that I had always treated you with respect and decency..... Sorry fellow, this kind of damages your credibility in my book. In addition, Your persistance in posting a tag line that I find deeply offensive for reasons previously explained, removes any respect I might have had for you as a Christian or a brother.

Thank you Mr. Strange ... I was SO hoping someone would think of that :lol: I certainly wouldn`t want him to miss any of my wit and charm

It`s an *inside* thing oldies... If lcm truly repented...he wouldn`t HAVE to be asked! He would be so filled with compassion for the people he was reponsible for hurting that he would be BEGGING ...and seeking anyway within his power to ease the suffering and pain he personally is responsible for. Like I said though....it takes the love of God abiding within you...the desire to heal .... The only thing preventing this oh so simple but so powerfully healing action, would be pride and arrogance.

Man it really suprises me the lengths that folks will go to, in order to dismiss the not only biblically necessary requirement to repent and make retitution....but just basic human decency ... It is such a simple, LOGICAL thing to do if one has the love of God abiding in their hearts, and knows that they have hurt or offended one of HIS children.... On the OTHER hand....if one is an arrogant pri--....it is no doubt very easy to point the finger at those who were wounded and tell em to *move on*

Aw darnit all anyway, something tells me that ckmkeon had put me on *ignore* long before this :) Not suprising of a vpw fan club member, ck behaves like an a$$ but it is everybody else that are bitter.... I suppose that this means that you will need to stop posting?? :D

....... not to worry Mr. Strange..... harmless am I (said in my best yoda immitation :) )

Error??? ERROR??? ooooh no don`t EVEN try to minimalise what you did as a simple *mistake* You out and out LIED .....I can only surmise in the interest of trying to stir up trouble.....the act of a sneaky little punk trying to cause problems....The only thing YOu are sorry for is getting caught friend. YOU have been treated with longsuffering, forbearance and respect ...you have deficated on, spit upon, and trampled the wealth of pearls lovingly and gently placed in front of you....your option of course dude, But don`t expect any more or any respect when you behave like such a little swine.