rascal

well praise God you were delvered from your *fears and problems* md... For others here... the *fears and problems* vpw personally introduced and were caused by association with twi negate any minor good that he did. You got some good in twi? GREAT ...some got messed up bad as a direct result of vpw/twi teachings...some even died. Drugging, rape, extortion, drunkeness, lying...sorry these are above and beyond the catagory of *minor flaws* friend......

That is so sick safari vista......but yet I remember so clearly that attitude developing in leaders in twi.....My husband even carried a bit of this into our marriage in the early days....the *how DARE you question the head of the house* attitude....lol Now it is funny, but back then....I never dared disobey or deviate from his express instructions for fear of going against the will of God. It blows my mind how we were conditioned to meekly accept outragious abuse in the name of being virtuous/spiritual/meek/not posessed.

Aww free to love, I am sorry that you saw my post as snide and demeaning....there was a valid point I was trying to make in a humerous way....oh well..I guess we read what we want to into people and their posts. Does the fact that we were *trying with all of our might to be true to God`s calling and love and mercy for our lives* in any way mitigate the pain inflicted or the suffering endured as a result of our betrayal? I think that makes twi`s leaders actions even MORE reprehensible...No? In sorting it all out....figuring out where God was and how this could happen is vital for some of us in being able to re establish a trust in him. I have no doubt that God might have led you here, nor do I discount your ability to be able to minister on his behalf...however...YOUR calling is not mine, nor is your experience or insight mine either.....please give my pov respect and I will endeavor to give you the same courtesy. :)

((Nato)) I am so so sorry about your sweet Grandma :( That was unconsionably cruel....

Lol...well if you are interested in talking about God`s calling and mercy and love in our lives.....a forum for discussing the actions of a destructive cult and the impact it`s viscious leaders had on our lives is hardly the place to expect meaningfull dialog ...... silly :)

Maybe that is why he has been so scarce around here mo.....somebody was holding him to his word.

Well...if it makes you feel ANY better jard, my dishwasher died last week as well...and there are NINE people to wash for. Cowfirl, I understand.....I have only one bathroom in my house as well....with 7 kiddoes <_<

This from the guy who launches his firey darts in half inch high bold blue letters at the end of every post

Umm so ck is saying that gs is wicked for talking about what the man that HE thanks God for... did??? VPW isn`t wicked for doing it, but we are wicked for telling about what he did...Go figure <_<

...

I get you temple lady...and thanks. Anybody who is appalled and disgusted by what happened to us in twi is labled as a big old meanie ...when one speaks of anger over mistreatment...called a whiner ...a perpetual victim...a back biter...repeatedly posters have been called liars when sharing gruesom details of abuse at the hands of twi members......I guess because it doesn`t jive with the rosey mind picture they want to maintain of twi`s importance or lack there of in the grand scheme of things..... Shoot, I am considered one who comes here only to make people think like me...to be compared with someone who`s sole purpose at gs is to peddle rediculous dogma.....all of the afore mentioned viscious personal attacks by the ohhh so nice people crying foul and then simper *lets all just be a little nicer can`t we*?? In posting our thoughts, questions, the angst of searching for answeres to what happened to us all....what is truth...how and where was God when we were being led into the darkness and bondage? Can we ever trust him or anybody who speaks for him again?? In our disgust over the betrayal and theft ...we are percieved as throwing stones.

sigh....... but I suppose THAT is what tends to happen when an organization is guilty of stealing, killing and destroying.....people tend to harbor a bit of resentment for your group

Agreed Belle, Even if twi came clean and was wiped off the map with the bankruptcy of making restitution to those they betrayed and destroyed.....(though how you would apologize and make restitution to those who lost their lives is beyond me).... I am always at a loss as to why folks think we need to STOP talking about what happened to us in twi...I almost started a whole new thread with the question.

You know... they SHOULD be grieved at how they treated their fellow Christians....they should be down on their knees before God begging his forgivness first ...and desperatly seeking forgivness and eagerly providing any restitution possible...even if it bankrupted them....to those who`s trust and lives they have betrayed. THAT is what a genuine Christian would do. But hey, if they were genuine Christians instead of just wannabees to begin with.....they never could have committed these atrocities in the first place. The arrogance of their biblical knowledge tells them differently though....that knowledge has been the excuse utilized to permit the atrocities suffered at the hands of these wolves. They threw out all of the genuine Christians in twi YEARS ago because they were incapatible with the darkness in which the leaders abided. I agree with catcup, the motives of the extended apologies from the hardened jaded folks are to be viewed with the deepest of suspicion.

I am with Mark on this one, an apology would be a move in the right direction, However ... Without a change in the doctrine that enabled them to become viscious and destructive in the first place, they are still a spiritually unhealthy group. Even if all of the above changed, there would be plenty to talk about because it takes a long time to unravel the unhealthy thought processes that years of association with twi has developed within ourselves.

When is salmon fishing? I am a critter loving gal, so my horses and dogs and bazillion cats are what makes me happy. I can equally see the appeal of living in Ak...and have always dreamed of doing so ...living in a remote cabin, watching the dear and wildlife wander through the back yard...but that is what the summer cabin in the michigan u.p. is all about :)

I believe that twi is an abusive spiritually unhealthy place to be. I do not think that anything that they have to offer would be worth the price one would have to pay to be a member in good standing.

Sunny, I am very glad that you are here. Thank you for looking past the anger and seeing the people behind the posts...and further more considering their pov. I look forward to your continued input and uniquely special perspective. Cathy

Awww ((((((Hopefull)))))) Life just sucks sometimes. You remind me of a friend of mine who moved down to tenn from nyc (13 yrs ago) with her parents and own family....Her kids grew up and within a year or two and left home, her husband died suddenly and she lost both parents.... So here is a gal in her 50s having her world turned upside down....no family, no friends because she hasn`t been down here for very long....she has to find a job and support herself after being out of the job market for 20 yrs.... No reason to celebrate holidays or birthdays....nobody to care if she were alive or dead ...you know...so I am saying that I understand where you are coming from. You have to start out from scratch....it isn`t fair, it isn`t nice, it down right sucks....but you have to do it.... The ten year anniversary of her husbands death just passed we observed it withe her......and she has survived, made friends got a good job....it has been hell but she is immeasurably stronger for her travails....sure she tried to curl up in a fetal position and give up because it was all so overwhelming and unfair....but she got up after time and set a new course for her life. She has become a new person ...immeasurable stronger, more capable, stretching herself in directions that she never dreamed of going. You will do this as well dear hopefull....I know that you will because you have already endured the worst.... I know that you missed the commeradery of twi....we all do for a time ... but the price you would pay today for that feeling of *belonging* ...the benefits would be limited and short lived ............you would be doing the equivelent of my friend crawling back into bed into that fetal position ... a place where you feel safe and can ignore the harsh reality of your world. You are strong girl, You are going to be even stronger. Your life is going to take off a new and exciting direction and when ten years has passed you, like my friend will look back on the last ten years and marvel at how far you have come. When I left twi my prayer to God, my heartfelt beseaching to God was for a friend thats all just one friend...... I desperatly missed not being a part of something bigger.... This lady that I mentioned, was the one that was God`s answere to my prayers of loneliness ...coincidentaly, I met her a couple of months before her husband died....she considers me God`s gift to her for facing what was coming as well. You are at a really tough spot ((((hopefull))) my heart and prayers go out to you :( I feel sure that God is right there with you though, as you close this chapter of your life and embark on your journey in a new direction.

ALL I know is that I was *always seeking but never coming unto a knowledge* of him in twi. I was taught do A+B+C absouletly will = D I tried I did all of the formulas, operated all of the principles took all of the classes followed all of the instructions....only to feel that God`s ebntire opinion of me and my spirituality rested entirely on whom ever my leader was at the time and if they personally liked me. I was considered a believer with great heart and phenominal commitment by my interim corpes tc only to be determined posessed and thrown out by the tc`s replacement a few weeks later <_< My Limb leader in one state screamed at me and told me I was a real loser... because I had a parakeet and hamster in my room.....that I didn`t have the *heart of corpes* Three months later my lc on the wow field loves me and thinks that I will be outstanding as corpes. My BC and tc tell me that going corpes isn`t a good idea....(pop was just read) and I write a letter to hq explaining why I will not be entering residence (getting married) ... I get a blistering letter from lcm declaring me a spiritual loser...a liar to God ...my heart was never to go corpes.... 3 months later when I marry ...I get a *welcome to the corpes household* NOW you are something special from the same rabidly frothing mog that declared me so much garbage earlier. What I am trying to say was that THESE men claimed that God worked through them .... and would say that I was a loser or I was posessed and that if I left twi that God couldn`t protect me....if I didn`t tithe God couldn`t protect me...If I didn`t read my bible and pray every morning God couldn`t help me grow spiritually...if I didn`t witness I couldn`t grow spiritually...if I didn`t have someone in every class I was a spiritual hitchhiker ...a bump on a log spiritually.... The thing is...I was so busy persuing formulas attending classes forfilling requirements....so very carefull to dot all of my *I*s and cross my *T*s ....and I still felt like I was one mistake or error away from losing God and his protection and love. SO I would have to say no, I didn`t feel like twi promoted a relationship with God in my case..... It took finally ditching everything that I thought I knew about God in order to start all over again and learn to see him as a loving father instead of being a *spiritual athlete* or soldier always preparing for the competition or battle. I had to start all over again....because what good I learned in twi was so intermixed with the bad....it became as detrimental as the bad.

Tom is a puppy? You are his master? You are shoving his nose in poop to show your displeasure???? ROFLMAO Bad dog, Tom! Bad Dog! It is a good thing your master is so benevolent.....better listen close now or he will be forced to use a rolled up news paper next

Wooohooo!!! Can`t wait !!! :)

Sigh...tootsie farkle tush here :( Think I like my maiden name better... tootsie potty brains :)

Stupeed cat I know.....couldn`t help it, I just HAD to be the one to throw the first stone

Wingnut, pass those lables this way will ya? I think I will proudly wear one myself :)