rascal

It was the ultimate betrayal ...

and No she wasn`t exagerating...that is EXACTLY how someone referred to excathedra in the forums for sharing about abuse and what that destructive sob did to her ...damn them Also ... folks who shared about abuses suffered in twi whom can no longer be referred to as liars and exagerators......are often refered to as simply seeking attention now... that isn`t it...... It is humiliating and embarrassing to lay your soul out for everyone to see .... reveal your secret shame and pain.......only to have some insensitive wart indicate that you are a liar or whiney....or somehow were weak, or wanted/asked for/deserved what you recieved <_<

Maybe not Likeaneagle, but that is what happens.... The information of personal first hand accounts has already been told repeatedly here. You have been told where you can find it in several locations...the sexual abuse thread, and the suicide thread, to name a couple of places. You can read what word wolf wrote as an accurate summary of what has been related first hand....I can confirm the personal accounts were posted of everything he wrote. It has been explained why it is difficult to come forth, after you have told your story and people start referring to you as a *perpetually whining victim* or a *liar* or *attention seeking perpetual victim* *the drama queen of sexual abuse*....*it takes two to tango* to name just a few epitaphs applied to those with guts enough to tell what really happened...after a while you tend to say wtf....you just shut up. No nobody ever charged vpw, they never had the chance to tell their story...as they were escorted off grounds, declared posessed, and people told to avoid all contact lest they become infected as well. That happened to several people....but with the internet now available ...they are FINALLY able to tell their side of the story. The personal first hand accounts are out there....if the truth means something to you then for goodness sakes.... seek it out yourself....Try to understand the effort that it cost`s to relate these experiences .......don`t expect people to go through it yet again and the ensuing barage of insults, personal attacks, and attacks on their veracity and integrety in order to simply satisfy someones personal curiosity.

Too right twinkey...... Everybody else lived in those dorms and trailers WITH their children! However ...seeing the trailers weren`t GOOD enough for their royal selves <_< then twi damned well should have taken some of their millions of dollars and BUILT a place worthey of the prestige of the president of twi....rather than steal the building that was built and hyped up under the auspices of being FOR the way corpes. Damned liars.

That is cool Eagle....sometimes things get a bit testy because there have been times when women have shared their experiences here, that folks called them liars or pointed a finger of blame....some how made it their fault and so forth.

Eagle there are many first hand accounts told here by trusted long time posters. The way your question is phrased, it seems to call into question their veracity. There are accounts from other people on the John Juedes *messiah 7* site as well. There are specific threads where some of these stories are related....Look for the suicide thread and the adultery thread from a year or so back. Some were very young and trusting..the lies they were told in order to comply with his demands were sick. More than one who refused were given a drink by the bus driver c8ris g**r... (the drugging was even said to be confirmed at one point by John L*n*) they awoke later to find themselves in vpw` bed in the coach. One 17 yr old reported being thrown off of the wow field a week or two after not complying with wierwilles demand. She was declared posessed and her family warned. What he did went far beyond *adulterous affairs* when he targeted young teenaged women and used his positon of power to manipulate, and his authority as a minister to coerce the girls into servicing him as their Godly duty and function in the body of Christ, or the way to achieve healing from child hood sexual abuse. He was a cold, calcutating predator....*adulterous affairs* would indicate that he was on equal footing with the teenagers that he seduced and molested.

Rhett, was my favorite male shepherds name. Kazan, and Barry son of Kazan were the names of two characters in James Oliver Curwood novels about enormous dogs that were wonderfull. Titan is the name of the big Dane down the road...appropriate since we live in Tennessee and that is our football team. Gumbo is his brother. *Max* as in maximum was good....My daughters dog was named *chancelor* his son`s names were *2nd chance* *not a chance* and *any chance* Our big Bouvier came to us named *Stoney* My Mom names her dogs after land marks at her summer camp *Nevin*s (lake) *Kinsey* (pond) daughters pony was *mack* inac (as in straights of) *Magnum* was the name of a wiermeraner down the road from me... Lol sounds like a wonderfull dog...what breed is he?

PREEEECISELY!!! That describes twi to a *T*

Weeeell, if you consider luring people in to that snake pit of lies, deception, black mail, rape and in some cases even death with the bait of that *teaching and preaching* .... a *bad thing*... I`d have to say yeah...it was.

There was never any mention of wierwille or lcm staying there. It was all hyped as a place for the visiting corpes. But who the heck was going to argue when wierwille siezed it for himself....when that was done....he immediatly handed it off to lcm. There wasn`t any discussion or justifying it...they just did it. Pretty slick ... had lcm just declared ownership for himself upon the date of completion...there would have been more of a backlash I`m thinking.

Mark it never OCCURED to me to be dissatisfied with my life/my family/our church UNTILL twi indicated that these things were some how substandard to what God wanted/needed. TWI dangled that carrot in front of us promising so much....making what we had/were appear to be so lackluster and below standard. If the shoe doesn`t fit your foot, ok ....but CW made a very valid point that many others can recognise and identify with. It is very hard to get away from the mindset that we cannot relax and enjoy our lives, enjoy the blessings and joys provided.........that we have to be on some kind of intense mission for God, or we are some how not living up to God`s standard. That IS a carryover of twi infection.

I get you cw...I really do... It all started with twig and pfal...it wasn`t good enough to be a teenager working and going to school...one needed to be a warrior for God in the spiritual battle....God needed us on the wow field... College and friends were not good enough...satisfactory. hobbies, interests, passions were not good enough...satisfactory...we needed to be investing our time interests and efforts into serving God .... family was not satisfactory because they distracted us from our missions. What we were doing, who we cared about, where we were at was never satifactory....there was always something *better* that God needed us to be doing....

Geeeze connerron.... That is insane.... the evil in twi was a whole lot more subtle than that most of the time. I agree and had to live with the anything that the mog *recomended* was law... it was horrible what we were forced to do in service to God because the mog deemed it necessary.

((((andy and jard)))) I am sorry. Kit what an apt description of life outside of twi in the beginning.....and So true....it DOES take time of being a friend..... that is what makes a genuine friend such a treasure. Greasespot ...geeeeze thank God ..... has been wonderfull in opening avenues of friendship during the years I was secluded in my home.....tied down with pregnancies and nursing babies :)

Grand daughter, a lot of us were there then. What specifically information wise are you looking for?

(((grand daughter))) Be strong hon... I know things are very hard right now, but understand that you need to be strong for your children.... There are other off shoots of twi out there that teach versions of what you learned if you feel you need it. I think though, that there are problems with the whole basic premiss that they operate from. You stand a chance of swapping one set of shackles for another. Be wise in chosing your next direction.... knowing this, that God is able and willing to continue to walk with you, teaching you in a wonderfull personal way no matter which direction you eventually choose. Aleya has some great insights....

What EVER it is...it is a fascinating piece of the puzzle concerning our history :) I look forward to learning what this artifact has to reveal about past people and their civilizations.

Awww thanks Wacky :) Not to shabby for a middle aged, at one time seriously out of shape, asthmatic old gal...eh? I have to vote for midlife adventure....the very best times of my life began after 40...seriously ..I would NEVER go back. I love being able to embark in any new adventure I take a notion to.

I know that there was an effort on the part of the new bot to distance friends and leaders from vpw whom might have made a difference. I know that one leader who was at hq during this time told me in later years.....that he and others were told to stay away from vp because craig and the new bot needed all of his time to help them with the things of the ministry....these other folks mustn`t interfere with his concentration...etc... This unbeknownst to vpw himself aparently......he never knew why all of hq seemed to be unwilling to talk to him...My friend didn`t learn untill too late that vpw felt abandoned and alone those last couple of years.

Or PERHAPS he was a ravening wolf seeking whom he may devour...a false prophet....

My father has been the best example for aging that I have ever seen. When he was in his thirties he was a beer drinking cheese eating overweight sedentary man. He started dieting and running marathons in his forties all the way into his seventies. He was a teacher in a prison......then he designed lasers for helicopters in the military...he retired and went on to be on the team that invented/developed fiber optics....he retired from THAT job and went to work for a company that was instrumental in designing computer chips....finally in his seventies he went back to school to bcome a tax accountant so that he could volunteer to help older people at some center do their taxes....each and every one of these jobs should have been prestigious and lucrative for him to retire comfortably.....but he always told me that *about the time I have learned a job...it is time to find a new one* He always loved the challenge of learning a new thing.....he says that is what keeps him young. At 70 he found the absolute love of his life and got remarried down in the fla keys....he and his wife travel extensively ...yardsale...disney...sea world...whatever strikes their fancy....According to him...the very best part of his life began for him unexpectedly in his 70s when he fully expected it to end....his wife had passed away suddenly.....he was alone and retired , kids grown... who knew that the best was yet to come? At 40 I began indulging in my passions and dreams set aside all of these years....I have my horses, i raise and train them, I participate in community theatre, I began karate with my kids....at 45 I am one promotion shy of my black belt.... My dream is to maybe open a karate school with an after school program for kids as an alternative to day care or being alone in the afternoon when their folks are at work. It doesn`t matter what direction that I go in....what IS important to be learning and challenged...otherwise, life gets pretty stale.

I dunno, it is hard to pick WHICH class was the most useless...there were so many.... I think imo Christian family and sex was probably the worst......Was I supposed to be impressed with all of the slang that rolled so smoothly offa his tongue.....and did old vp REALLY think that we needed pictures? ....ick It all boiled down to treat your man like a king and be an angel in the kitchen and devil in the bedroom....now THERE is something usefull to carry me through the rest of my life

But John..is it revising history if involvement with twi DID screw up our lives? Pond, I dissagree about holding on to beliefs learned...possibly it is true for you.....but most people I know have completely disregarded our strongly held beliefs aquired in twi. After seeing scriptures and God be used to manipulate and hurt people, used as tools to aquire that which the user desired...It is difficult to have confidence in any bible based doctrine...it is difficult to have confidence in a God whom following bible teachers would result in such abuse in his name. In other words...twi involvement proved to be more of a destroyer of faith, instrumental introducing a lack of confidence when the magic formulas and principles failed to produce the promised results.

I don`t think that is it bow....it doesn`t sound familiar...(i will recognise it if i hear it...though THAT doesn`t help much) The place that hawk recomended had cabins....I think. Oh and Belle...I`d LOVE to meet your mama and daddy again :)

As far as book or movie? Robert Heinleins book *the puppet masters* comes to mind. People would be attacked by aliens, who would attatch themselves to humans out of sight and controll them. The people looked normal ...which is what would disarm everyones suspicions so that they could get close enough to infect the next victim. Nice looking normal people posessed by evil malevolent aliens....being used to lure their fellow mankind to their destruction....it has a familiar ring to it <_<