Nero

Oh yes! I used to live with my extended family on a giant plot of land. My father and uncle bought some land together and we had a little farm. We were supposed to live there forever. We were supposed to be together always. But my parents were in the corps and being in debt was evil. So they ordered my dad to get out of debt and get rid of the house. My aunt and uncle took on our share of the property and house... and even let us live there for a while while my parents got out of debt. They were almost there. We had to move away from our family and friends. And then they kicked my parents out anyway. Around 5 years ago my father told leadership he was going to move and where. They told him he couldn't. He laughed. And we've been here ever since.

I didn't think of it that way. I remember her saying something about just because I felt that way didn't mean she had to change how she thought. I told her I didn't want her too, but it's got me thinking. Perhaphs it would be better to end our relationship now or say I need a break since it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe she thinks I'm trying to change her simply by being different myself? I think twi does the whole - "we must be like-minded" so it makes me wonder if she subconciously thinks I want her to be the same as me? Maybe if I break it off now before it goes past the point of no return... maybe when we grow up more, maybe she'll change herself (not her beliefs) but what she expects out of me? Maybe Maybe Baby.

I hated the Mall and door to door thing. I am incredibly shy around new people (and I also never wanted to push my beliefs on people) so it was awful for me too. I was so relieved when the Mall cops started shutting us down everywhere we went. Mostly because twi peeps made some people uncomfortable when they were just trying to shop around. I disliked the door to door thing because you don't know who is on the other side of the door. There was one lady we talked to who held a gun behind her back while she talked with us. I can't say I blamed her - the two guys who were with me were HUGE. I was little at the time so I think that's why they brought me hehe. It sort of made them look less frightening. Edit: Because I realized I stole someone's line hehe

Oh - I just realized when everyone was talking about my sis they thought she was in twi. She hasn't been a part of twi since she was 18 and she is 37 or 38 right now. She is much older than me so I don't think she ever (thankfully) bought into their junk. I believe she goes to a Catholic church right now? I need to ask. She just kept seeing him when he was uncomfortable (his eyebrows sort of fuse together when he's like that). Sometimes he coughs and he gets this uncomfy look on his face. She thought he was suffering so she wanted us to let him go (like... not drag it out for months) and not be selfish. That's why I'm not upset at her. It made me feel better to know my mom wasn't on board with it. I thought she was at first - which was why I was even more upset when my sis mentioned this stuff. Because I thought maybe they would just let my dad go when he hasn't really had a shot at living yet. As for my twi friend - it's getting harder to want to talk with her - even though I still love her. I've had to edit myself a lot, I even put my family in a special group on my friend's page just so I could talk about religious stuff because instead of discussing it - it turned into a jump on Nero all the time thing. She read into my poetry that wasn't even about her and believed I was saying mean things about her. Even when I wasn't talking about religion it turned into a religious thing. And she jumped all over me again. It seems like I can't say or do anything around her without it getting turned into a "you hate me, you hate God, you don't like the way you were treated in twi - so you hate anyone associated in twi." I let her in on this time in my life because I didn't think she would have acted that way again. I'm begining to wonder if it's worth it? How do you keep friends that won't listen to you and think the worst of you at some of the most important moments to even the less significant? I keep trying to figure out what I can say or do to make things better and I'm at a loss.

Don't I know it? The TWI theme song for people going through anything from a stubbed toe to a death in the family would be "Get Over It" by the Eagles. I feel sorry for them really - because most of them don't know any better - at least my friend because she was born into this horror film. We were taught to be loving... but do it in such a hateful and cruel way that you might as well not have said anything at all. Ugh. It makes me cringe to think of what I've might have said to people before... but simply cannot remember. I hope I never did that. It didn't come across as wrong. It's okay. Thank you for being so sweet.

Me going a little : Seriously! I told her I didn't appriciate her kind of help (in a very angry sort of way) and unfriended her. We talk on a friend link page. I really couldn't deal with her acting like that - especially right now. Unfortunately I didn't block her so she sent me letters until I did block her. She said some fun stuff in her letters like: "i know that you probably hate me and every one else who is in twi and or who loves god," -Which I never said... which she has thought before and no matter how many times I say "I don't hate you or everyone in twi or hate everyone who loves God" she won't listen. "and sometimes help can be a little hurtful" -To excuse the way she treated me. "i am very hurt that you do not want to talk to me because of my beliefs" -I never even discussed beliefs with her while this was happening - nor she. She just told me to "get over myself" O_o Unless those are her beliefs. P.S. Who the hell starts this kind of thing when your friend's dad is in the hospital? Like I have to deal with her weird crap and utterly insane insecurities while this is going on? For some reason I still love her - but I just can't do this anymore.

Dear lord... they used my father like freaking crazy. He is a man who knows how to make a house from scratch. So he was in on the building of the VPWA from the ground up until finish. I even know where his ground breaking shovel is... I remember secretly wanting it when I was little because the spade (?) was spray painted gold hehe. XP He built lecturns and all kinds of crazy stuff for our area. Not only did he give his time, skills, materials... But he gave them their disgusting 15% tithe as well! >=( I'm not even going to mention the stuff I did for them... it pales in comparison! You really did pay to work for them.

He already told us what he wanted actually (thank goodness). He told my mother and she asked my uncle too - so it was confirmed. Basically - if he was going to be a vegetable (for sure) or if it was a sure thing that he was going to have to live at the hospital (like he couldn't live without being tied to machines even if he was awake) - that he didn't want to be brought back if he died. But he's not a vegetable (as far as we know). He's also not totally reliant on machines - he has sleep apniea (can't spell!) so I think that's why he needs the breathing tubes since he is in a state of sleep right now. He's also not... dead. O_o And he won't be dead until he is dead. Thank goodness for my uncle and mom - I just talked to them this morning and they agree with me that he should be given time. Especially my uncle! Thank goodness for my uncle! Whew! At least the two people who matter (who make the choices) are in agreement and they are being level headed. I think the "what my dad would want" is really what some other people would want because they can't deal. I can't deal either... but I want him to have a chance - you know? It's okay I guess - because they are having to deal with it their own way? Thanks Sun - for telling me about the nursing homes. I do keep thinking about those horrible places that our grandparents had to look forward to. =( I really hope medicare takes care of rehab - and believe me - we will take it! =D My mom is going to work on getting him disability right now. Rascal - probably so. I think my sister is having a hard time dealing with this and I really feel bad for her. I know him dying has crossed my mind. I am right there with her too - it's like we are in limbo right with him. He's not dead - but he's not awake either. I'm just not going nuts and grieving for his death just yet. I'm grieving because he was hurt I don't know what is going to happen. Maybe it's easier to think he's dead - because then she can grieve for his death... not this up and down thing I'm going through. I just wish she wouldn't write him off just yet... But I also don't feel comfortable telling her how to feel. I think she is dealing with this right now in the best way she can... which might be the worst way - but she's doing what she can. Just a few days ago I was very angry about this whole thing and I had one of my twi friends tell me to "get over myself" and let go of the hate. O_o It was so incredibly hurtful - especially when my dad isn't awake. I can't imagine doing that to my own sister when she needs me to be there for her... even if she says crazy things. This is no time for reproof. I'm not sure either... maybe my sister is just saying this stuff because she can't think of anything else to say? I don't know everything that's in her heart. Maybe I can try to comfort her and maybe I can try to get her to think about the possibility of dad being okay.

Thanks for all of the kind words guys - and thanks for praying for my dad. It's really been helping me to see others opinions so I can change what has been drilled into me for years. I'm really hoping that at this point he will be able to make it. I wish he would wake up - at this point I don't care anymore. I just want him to have a shot at life again. I know my family members are dealing with this in their own way... but some of the ideas that have been getting tossed around by my sis are frightening. My sister is talking like he is already dead or that we should give up - she took my pictures I gave him (at my 18th b-day and then my wedding) so her husband could make a photo CD so everyone could have pictures of him. She says he looks uncomfortable and she wishes they would just take the tubes out. She also said he would be barking at us for moping around (which he wouldn't). I understand she is just grieving in her own way and I love her... and it's not like I haven't faced the posibility of him dying myself... but she is freaking me out. Shouldn't he be given a month before it's doomsday? Everyone keeps saying he wouldn't want to live if he didn't know who he was. I don't think so! What happens if it takes him a couple years to rememeber? Wouldn't it be worth it? I know how hard he worked to give us a good life - some people in my fam think that he shouldn't have to deal with this... but shouldn't we be working just as hard to give him a good life too? Also... My dad has no insurance - so I've been worried about what kind of care he might recieve now. I talked with my boss the other day and he said that it just depends on what kind of insurance we have... and we don't - and how long he might remain on the ventalator might depend on that? Let's not forget about rehab! =( I'm really worried about my dad now.

Ah - now that makes sense. It would just be another stage in his life. =) Hm, what a great example. I remember someone in twi having a relative with dementia. Her mother used to be a wonderful woman and suddenly she was horrible and uncontrolable. She was having lots of problems and needed comfort... someone told them that it wasn't their mom anymore. I guess I'm still having to unlearn some things. Even if my dad was just a baby on the inside again - I think I'd like to make sure he would learn how to speak and read again if I could help it. Everyone keeps talking about putting him into a nursing home if that's the case. It seems sad for someone who worked so hard... I doubt he would get any mental stimulation at all. It's a little daunting because he is a really big guy and I'd be home by myself... but it's hard to think of him being stuck in a home by himself. =( There was very little consistancy with what they taught - so I believe you. I was taught the soul was breath life (like with your lungs) and your spirit was your personality. Some people were taught to be sexual deviants while people like me were told almost any kind of sex was a sin. Blah! Drives me nuts!

My dad is in the hospital right now. To make a long story short - they won't know until he wakes up if he'll be able to remember who he is. They think that part of his brain was damaged. If my father can't remember who he is - if he turns into a big kid and starts over (like how to talk or anything)... is he my father still? He is biologically my father - but if his personality is gone - doesn't that mean he is dead? There is just someone new walking around in my father's husk? (Just in case anyone is wondering - even if he is like this I'll love and take care of him anyway). I was talking with my brother about what he thought this meant (if this does happen). He is pretty much still into the twi mindframe and told me that if someone dies their soul (breathe life) goes away and their spirit (personality?) goes to heaven. I already knew this is what we've been taught in twi... but I asked him if this meant that his spirit would go away and another one would take this one's place? He believes that God wouln't put him through that but if he lives like that his spirit will remain. But does that mean that if my father goes to an afterlife... he will remember both of his lives? Will they merge or will it be more like two different people? Maybe this is a morbid way of thinking? But I am confused right now and just a little insane with grief. This is what I've always been taught... and it doesn't make much sense to me at them moment. If our spirit is our personality... then wouldn't it die off when our personality is gone for good? I just don't know how to feel I guess. Edit: Is this thread in the right subject area? I just realized that maybe it wouldn't be. At first I thought this might be in the TWI thread because that's something they taught but maybe it should be in the doc section?

A fear of microwaves hm? It makes me think of the brave little toaster or something. Like the evil microwave will come to life... wrap its cord around your neck and microwave your head until it explodes like a potato. *imagines* Hehe!

I picked the 3rd... but not because of stuff I see here. Mostly because my father is in the hospital and I'm having to deal with a bunch of TWI crap right now.

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread - I'll go over it in a min to see if I just repeated what someone else said. I will qualify the following post by alerting you that it is an observation and an opinion. Some of you will be offended and even incensed to anger I love it when people start things out like this - you always know fun stuff is going to be written right afterwards. XP Also - maybe you were looking for a different word that qualify? Qualify means something like: meet the criteria or be eligible for? Maybe you wanted to say: "I will begin..." Or maybe it's a regional thing? (This might be my catchphrase!) I'm sorry - I am such a nazi when it comes to that stuff. It's not an insult - because I know I mispell "misspell" ^_~ hehe - I'm just as bad. I just hear my husband using words out of context sometimes and it makes it hard for people to understand him. Anyways - writing nazi off. T_T Fellowship can be centered around anything. I remember after some of the fellowships, I would listen to what people talked about and by paying attention to it, I would be able to tell what some of the needs were and what was on their heart. It was rarely the Word of God. I think that we usually got so much of God during fellowship that maybe our needs were actually met? Some people came to fellowship just to get out of the house. Yeah, the leadership screwed up but good gravy! I think of what was going on in the trenches. It makes me wonder if some people ever really got born again. I personally saw some people that had been around for years and only knew the first three or four verses of the white retemories, and that was stretching their mind. Evidence was present that the last time they spoke in tongues was in the 12th session of the first class they took. I certainly didn't want to go to get out of the house. I know my parents didn't either - they wanted the word and fellowship. I also think that measuring someone's love of God - on how well someone can remember a scripture on a piece of white paper - is a really stupid. Everyone has their strength's and weaknesses. Some people could speak in tongues really well, others seemed to have a photographic memory. Some could do it all if they were lucky. For some time now something has been eating at me regarding this site. Some people in here deserve each other. The victims, the hatemongers and the unbelievers. Like John Juedes! Some in here actually consider him as an authority. I've listened to his interview and read his spew on believing. The fact that some people rallied around him as an authority is distasteful to say the least. People in here want to blame leadership for their problems. What a crock. I remember the Advanced class '78 that LCM referred to in VP and Me. VPW offered an open session of questions on any topic and somebody got up and asked about 'needs and wants parallel'. It was a great question....to ask before arriving to the Advanced Class. I don't blame leadership for my problems. I have problems that I have to deal with everyday that has nothing at all to do with twi. I do blame some of them for being total bastards abusing their people. For the next several years, I took the foundational class several times and each time paid close attention to the topic. I committed myself to researching the words 'needs' and 'wants'. It took a while. A few years before I finally got it. By the time I did, I wasn't in the Corps any more and I had to just enjoy the privilege of knowing. In '84, I went into the 14th Corps. I must have asked about 100 people throughout the year if they understood it or could explain it. NO ONE COULD. That was scary and I had to watch myself to make sure I didn't get egotistical about it. If you didn't before it sounds like you are now. While John Juedes was finding out why 'believing' was being taught wrong and while Karl Kahler was documenting the snapping of a of a cult, I was trying to work the material. I'll tell you right now! Believing without God is stupid and I never thought it was part of the routine or doctrine. I knew people who acted like God wasn't needed. Some of them are probably in here and lauded to the heavens for their insight of TWI. I remember an incident where some guy volunteered to do some job because 'He could do all things through Christ... and VPW told him to stick his elbow in his ear." VP recognized how out to lunch and unqualified the kid was to handle the task and he knew that it would take some experience in the field. What kind words. I respect him more already. OR he could have told him more gently that he didn't know how to do this job... and maybe he could have tried to teach him how. Some of you in the cafe are so vehemently against TWI, it makes me wonder if you even love The Word any more. I asked myself a few months ago, "Self, when was the last time you read the Bible?" and I didn't like the answer. Then, I took inventory of my life and I didn't like the fruit, or lack thereof. Do you have to agree with TWI in order for you to love God? How silly. But if you do feel that way - maybe you should go back to TWI like a few others have said. There is no shame in it. Without God and His Word, we have nothing. Just empty greif with gnashing of teeth. We've just about lost our country and the freedom to speak Bible to anyone. This is disturbing enough to me that I've made up my mind to speak up. Or you actually feel good for once in your life? And you aren't surrounded by people who just give you empty grief and gnash their teeth at you for their jollies? Being in TWI was like a bad S&M film. I was mostly the M... I guess you were mostly the S. Are you trying to trying to recruit more Ms for when you go back to TWI? In closing, I'll share with you a key regarding needs and wants parallel. A child rarely has to ask for what it 'needs'. We need to 'want' what God says we 'need'. We need to want what YID says God says we need.

Awwww - George! That is just the best picture ever! <3 You all look so cute together. I hope that I'll still dress up when I get to be a mom or a grandparent.

But Mr. Ham - you forget that in oldies eyes... it would be the lady's fault anyway... because like... umm... her hands are showing! Yeah! What a ho! She was totally asking for it. What with her hands showing and whatnot. But you might have something there about wearing the beekeeper outfit - at least he might not be able to tell how good looking the ladies are... >_> Maybe...

They should be thankful! Now they might not be associated with those crazies at twi. I wish twi would actually spend some of their energy and resources trying to make the lives of the people under them better than making the lives of their people... AND OTHERS miserable.

(I took the names but not the scene – opps! I missed that part! That would have been so much more fun to do than what I picked!) XP *spoken in voiceover* Rob: Today on Cult Eye for the Uncult Guy… Lori: We’re going to meet a young couple named Tina and David Smith! Rob: Don’t interrupt me while I’m talking woman. Lori: Oops, sorry. Rob: We are going to totally makeover their lifestyle! Everyone: Yay! *Some horrible music from TWI plays during the opening of the show – something about hating the gays most likely* *Cut to the Smith house* *Everyone in the cult group is walking up to the house because the Winstar has broken down a few blocks away* *voice over again* Dave: Tina and Mike have no idea that we’re going… Rob: To be here today… Bud: Because they might try to lock us out of the house. Lori: And then they’ll never be blessed by God! Pam: How horrible would that be? *Bud does a foot plant on the front door and it crashes open* *couple appears to be startled* Tina: Oh my God what are you doing?! David: Our front door! Rob: You don’t know it yet… Lori: But you are on… Rob: Cult Eye for the Uncult Guy! David: Is this one of those shows where you make over our house? Rob: Not really! Anyways… let’s get to work! Dun dun dun… to be continued! I told you I liked to write. ^_~

Oh! I remember another one! One time I was tired at fellowship but I stayed awake (like always). My fellowship coordinator came up to me and asked me nicely how I was doing - he was smiling. I told him I was fine. Then he asked me about how I felt tonight. I told him again I was fine. He said I looked bored during the meeting. I told him I wasn't - I was just sleepy. I believed this was a casual: "Hey how are you doing?" "Great! How you doing?" conversation so I tried to walk away after that so I could go talk to one of the other teens. I can't remember at that point - but I believe I just took a step before I felt myself getting hauled back by the arm. I was a little surprised to find that the coordinator had a good grip on me. He still had that pleasant smile on his face when he jerked me close enough for him to whisper. "That's bs. That's bs. That's ....." I was so shocked I started to smile myself a little. It's like my brain couldn't wrap around him going from friendly to the devil in one second. So I tried to get my arm free and he just clamped down tighter. And then the smile went away from my end... although his was still in place while he told me I was a liar about wanting to be there. I wanted to be there earlier. After that I was just sick of it. I wanted to go to another fellowship. When I should have just wanted to get out period.

Oldies - what does having a lack of faith have to do with your statement? Again... "I suspect Solomon didn't have to drug women; he was the King and could have any woman he wanted. He was the King and women flocked to him; just like they flocked to Wierwille. Like some kind of a rock star. I don't know why he had to use drugs though; he had all the women without them. That was wrong for sure. But maybe he did it just to loosen them up? You know the uptight ones. I never tried it, but I heard that some of these date rape drugs enhance the sexual desire. Sort of like a sexual aid." This is what you said... so what does that have to do with someone having faith? None. It seems all you are trying to do is veer us off the subject of your perverted post and have us argue about something else entirely.

Happy Birthday Mr. Squirrel! <3

That's irrelevant.

Now, now guys! He might have joined the hair club for men! Hiding amongst us... with his new state of the art giant forehead camouflaging techniques. We will never see him coming...

Oldies - I don't think anyone wants the police to knock down your door - but your whole post in general is so creepy I can't help but worry about you.

I totally hated that - and my parents still live by it. I dislike it when they visited my house because they would give me suggestions about how to keep it clean - like I care. XP Now I'm staying with them temporarily and it's easy to remember why I didn't like living with them in the first place. To my dad if you aren't cleaning everything everyday you are satanic. God I can't wait until I get my own house. Actually... one of the reasons I like my husband so much is because he is just as messy as I am. Whenever I clean anything he thinks it's amazing. I love it! <3 I was very worried about that with my husband. He is bi-polar and actually takes his meds. (Thank goodness!) My friend invited me back to twi a few months ago and I thought of accepting... but that really held me back. I remember people being talked out of their meds all the time. People with even worse mental illnesses! If they talked him out of his meds I probably would have died... he is such a different person off of them.