DontWorryBeHappy

SkyRider is totally correct. Vic used to play Oral Roberts' "the Red Thread" at the AC. That's where I first heard it. Just like all of his other "great works", this one was plagiarized too.

Steve Lortz....... Wassung started out his Syriac studies at the university of Chicago under a Dr. Voobus, who was "all the rage" for twit's growing Aramaic Dept. Bruce Mahone and Dan McConnaughy both complete Masters' degrees under him. I believe Dan later went on to get a PhD. but from a different program. Wassung completed his Masters' in CA, at UCLA or USC. Marty McCrae who was one of the Promised Seed authors also started out at University of Chicago, but, after being banished and excommunicated from the 8th corpse for standing up to vic's intellectual bullying and publicly disagreeing with vic's P.I. re: JCOPS, he went on to a doctoral program at McGill University in Canada. Neither of those guys have anything to do with twit or cummins, or schoenheit, or geer, et al. Wassung might have been involved in the late 80's, but I don't know since I left in '86. Either way, Wassung also has an Engineering degree from some place reputable and his "research" for TLTF and his service on their board of elders is his hobby, his leftover twit shared with jalvis and whoever else pays him I guess. I don't know if Wassung was involved in the Aramaic versus Greek originals debate. I know that a lot of those guys left during or after dem fawg years, but have no idea who left when and why. All I know is jalvis had the hots for one of Bob's sisters and spent a lot of effort and time trying to woo her to be his wog at CES during the late '90s. Luckily for her Lizzy Chavez filled that roll a couple of times now. As far as Touchstone ever posting here again WordWolf, I doubt that will happen. So far, everywhere any of them has posted anything themselves, I seem to stumble upon them and get a chance to post stuff that has all since been deleted and I have been banned from every FB page and website at which they've got the power to do so. This last one on the End Times annual discussion they have on their YouTube channel called Justtruthit, was so blatantly prepubescent and intellectually vapid that I think even THEY were embarrassed by it. They've scrubbed them quite diligently so that zero discussion is left and it's all self-aggrandizing hype. Really amazingly immature and condescending at the same time. What a crew! So, I doubt any of them will ever have the guts to say anything here again until their next crisis. Honestly though, unlike As The World Turns, their old faithful THOUSANDS has dwindled to to a couple of hundred. I think even the old time fans are getting ready to turn the channel on the jalvis soap operas they've been watching for 40 years in black and white in tiny little boxes just big enough for their God. They think somehow, first century religious thinking is relevant to 21st century christianity and world affairs. How sadly deluded for such an increasingly long time. Get some new charts please.

Yes Steve! A "systematic theology" is exactly what it is. Only it's not very "systematic" at all because it jumps around all over the crazy, delusional "mind-picture" wierwille had of what "true Christianity" is supposed to be now as well as what it was when his voices told him it was first Godbreathed to Paul of Tarsus in the foist senchry. His mish-mash of re-interpreted Bullinger, Leonard, Stiles, Rinker, Kenyon, Chambers, Peale, Oral Roberts et al, is so clouded by booze and Aryanism, that even he lost track of what the hell he was saying. This became increasingly obvious the more vic removed himself from the "daily operations" of his Minus-tray. It became grotesquely obvious after da forehead's coronation. Vic's "retirement" to "Emeritus" status was so clearly idolatrous and mismanaged that it was becoming a sickenly tasteless embarrassment to any body else who saw the honest state of the mog. Cancer-ridden, strung out on codeine and booze and eventually Morphine and booze, just like his idol. So much so, that the very first "trip" on that asinine "twig-hopper", with one eye missing a belly full of Drambuie and Tylenol #3s, he ran himself and Dotsie right into a parked car some place, busting up that whole trip on it's inaugural coming out party. Cost a pretty penny in the first place let alone that repair job. Wassung is nearly as deceptive and phony as Jalvis, his boss. Only difference is Wassung does have a degree in Syriac from somewhere real. But, his ordination was a jalvis spayshull, and not from any place noteworthy, not even twit. It's manufactured just like TLTF's "systematic theology" and custom-designed to fit jally's version of the Greek New Testament of the Bible. Wassung spent some time under Cummins and Schoenheit in twit's "research" dept. Besides his degree in Syriac, those are his ONLY "biblical research" credentials. Jalvis always needs a genuine "research team" guy, like vic, who could make up dang in the Greek or Aramaic to back up what faddah was teaching Ol' Dictor every minute of every day. At first, it was Schoenheit. But, eventually even Dr. John the Word-tripper, got sick of "Moggy John" the real leader and founder of their POS "ministry".. Wassung is just a more personable bulldangter than Schoenheit, and willing to go along with JAL for whatever personal irrational "benefit" he gets from doing so. When I contacted Wassung personally earlier this year, he completely lied to me about his participation and role in jal's new roadshow. He said TLTF paid him for his "research", and that he had no current or active role in their "leadership". I've still got the e-mails Bob, so no need in lying yet again. The Adminstrations in Scripture teachings of both Wierwille, and as taken "further" by TLTF, are bungled, dumbed-down Bullinger and Welch made less dumb-looking by schoenheit and lynn's decades of training in Biblical Research at the feet of the grand dragon of P.I. himself, dictor paul wierwille. They're not only antiquated, but between vic and his Boyz, their value as study aids and teaching tools has been completely butchered by vic's delusions and his Boyz' pseudo-intellectual biblical manure salad. And, Jal was equally dismissive of any question or post put up at their so-called discussion on their Youtube channel. Some poor guy named Ronnie G. Schofield posted something about preterism and and JAL publicly yelled at the guy and everything he wrote for being a complete waste of time". That is, before everything was deleted. All that discussion thread is over there is jalvis impressing himself on video and Sha-Na-Nandra's prepubescent "listening with a purpose questions". Nothing anyone but their own elders posted is still there! Now THAT's intellectual and academic confidence is it not?......LOL. Open and honest discussion too. Guys like wrenn and lynn and panarello, and finnegan, and twit will teach where the money is. That's all they can do and all they've been doing since they started their various "ministries". That's all they know. That's how they trained themselves to be christian leaders and workers in areas of concern interest and need. As I've said before, when you've got nothing you can make up whatever you want to sell as another panacea to dealing with REALITY. Religious, hypermanic delusions still sell well.

Good luck Charlene! Remember.....in a pinch, Pathouli Oil never fails! It's a throwback thing.

Thanks Raf. Appreciate your time. Definitely much better.

Yo! MRAP? Where Ya been? So much info has gone by since your last bungled pist. TLTF got your tongue and keyboard? Your heroes have really done great so far. Maybe you've just given up your charade? 'Sup buddy?

Not at all Raf! Content remains the same, and you are a professional at it. Thanks for your help.

Thank you for another outstanding essay, Charlene. The idea of absolute certainty about "things of the Spirit" is, to me, an oxymoron. And, as Charlene points out, the entire concept of, "I know that I know That I know", that absolute certainty that my peculiar and particular "spiritual belief" and IT ONLY affords ALL mankind the option of tyrannical rule, even total domination, over all the rest of the "unbelievers", and all those "natural men" with no spirit of God whatsoever and worthy of nothing more "phony love" at best, and, at worst, the cheap disdain of arrogant "Christian" bigotry for all things contrary to the one true belief offered by whatever cult de jour is in vogue at the time. I agree wholeheartedly that " absolute certainty" is the enemy of liberty and a the sprout of religious and social tyrrany. It allows for no reason, logical debate, compromise or peaceful co-existence with ANY belief system which disagrees in any way with "The Truth of god's word". This more often than not allows for the group acceptance and group-think necessary for the cult leader to gather and consolidate real political and psycho-social power and control of the lives of "the faithful". Critical thinking is mocked, dissension is squashed, and conformity is the command. All else but blind Faith is "unbelief" and abjectly " wrong" and "ungodly". Compromise is treason and yields only death and destruction. Compromise is alliance with evil however defined by the cult leader in stark terms of the dire results inevitably produced by "unbelief", non-conformity, and daring to engage the processes of critical thought and questioning. Resistance us not only futile it is actually EVIL! At age 64, my motto has become "I know that I know that I DON'T know"! Leaves a lot more room to fill a half-full bucket with objective, fact-based knowledge and affords one the luxury of not having to "be right" all the time, or having all the answers to human life and the human condition because "God revealed them to you." It allows for the mutual respect for human dignity and the miracle of life that all humans share.

Here's a note from Sue Pierce to jallyroll: "Sorry, John, but I was there for a lot of your nonsense, and what Ralph has written here is not "b.s. allegations". If Ralph didn't have a genuine concern for your welfare, he wouldn't bother continuing to try to agitate you toward repentance and doctrinal correction. But you've clearly decided NOT to correct or repent. Your remark that Ralph knows "nothing about most of the things [he] brings up" is also not correct. I was there. I know. As for me, I really don't care all that much about you. You are what you are--a selfish deceiver. After your recent prayer group's petition for God to turn me over to satan for my destruction, I'm done with you. How you can make that kind of prayer and, with the same mouth, claim to teach Truth from the Scripture confounds me. You're on the train to hell, jal, and I don't really care any more. Ralph does care. He is by far a better person than I am."

Thanks Tzaia. I always find your posts so informative and insightful. Your experiences corroborate the same experiences we had with Jalvis, which led to our resignation from the BID of the original CES the day after we incorporated it! I am posting the most recent diatribes from lynn himself to me as I attempted to pist on their Youtube Channel " justtruthitit" end Times Discussion thread. Everything I ever posted anywhere on any of their Facebook pages or YouTube sites has been deleted, including the posts below. Thus just happened this past week. I'm interested in hearing your opinions regarding the latest liefest of the TLTF "chief minister". My latest response to "day four" of "open discussion" before it gets deleted. "So.....here again, just like in wierwille's pfal, the "apex of all revelation to the church (of the body of Christ) is not Jesus Christ, but rather, the Epistle of PAUL to the Ephesians! Chapter and verse please?! Where does it say that anywhere in Scripture? Bullinger says it in his book "the Church Epistles". wierwille says it in his pfal. jalvis says it in his interpretation of Bullinger and wierwille here. But, WHERE IS IT IN THE BIBLE? Nowhere to be found. You exchange "the word made flesh" for the words of the Pauline Epistles, and you do so arbitrarily with no scripture to back it up. The centerpiece of YOUR version of Christian living is Paul, not Jesus Christ. After all, JC never knew the "sacred secret" did He?And, if he did, after his resurrection, he never got to say anything about it. Nope! It took Paul to tell everyone what Jesus didn't know and couldn't say! So, you arbitrarily relegate the "founder" of Christianity, to being only TO the Jews, and FOR our learning, but the real "founding president" of the Christian Church is Paul, not Jesus, because Jesus had NO CLUE what he was doing here on Earth, did he? Paul had to tell Him, and Peter, and John, and James, and everybody else including the Debbil! Jesus was just blindly saving mankind without knowing what he was really doing. But, don C., it is US, the Christian believers who enable Jesus Christ to be where ever He wants or needs to be, not God or even Jesus Himself! He can only BE where there's a faithful believer who knows Paul's revelation "rightly-divided". "Thank god for time zones"??? How about thank god for Christ? Talk about taking the place of Christ?? There it is. Jesus Christ is "only a head" rolling around heaven somewhere. Jesus NEEDS US in order to carry out His Ministry and do His works because He's only a head rolling around aimlessly somewhere until WE allow Him to be wherever our alarm clocks are! And, you wonder why your "ministry" is called anti(against)-Christ?? I wonder why you wonder. Then, for ALLOWING Jesus to be wherever YOU and your alarm clock are, and for doing all THE WORKS He can't because He's just a rolling head somewhere, YOU get rewards from Him for doing what He couldn't do on His own. And, you and Jesus would never know any of this if Paul hadn't told you ?? Gimme a break! Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh, not Paul. Jesus Christ taught us how to love and live as Christians, not the Pauline Epistles. It was by Jesus Christ's stripes we were healed, not what Paul's back looked like! Jesus Christ is the apex of all revelation to the Church, not Ephesians. Jesus Christ was the full reflection of God's glory, Truth, and Righteousness, not Paul or his "sacred secret". Jesus Christ is the "author and finisher of our faith", not Paul and his epistles. And, it is apparent from your "chief minister's" never-ending classes and teachings, that TLTF has no concept of the position of authority and supremacy Jesus Christ holds in and over the Church that bears His name. We are not called to be Paulians! Paul did not save us. Paul is not going to gather us together. Paul is not the King of God's Kingdom. Paul is not the source of revelation or gifts of healing. Paul does not "take the place of the absent Christ", and Paul does not reward you for living like a Christian can. That's all usurpation of the works and ministry of the Savior, not service to Him or His Body. You have exchanged the resurrected Christ for one of His apostles, and limited that risen Christ to YOUR ability to believe in Him. You accept Him not as The King that He is, but only as the means to making sure YOU get rewarded for doing His job! Which you cannot do, which you've never done, and which you will never accomplish until YOU repent of your evil deeds and false teachings done in His name. You need to get God's Chart and accept "the fullness of the Godhead bodily" as your life. Your charts lead only to the abject and cruel darkness of idolatry and separation from the Only Way, Truth, and LIFE, the Lord Jesus Christ. Accept the Christ and Get His Life. All TLTF does is pimp for jalvis. You are a disgrace to Jesus Christ and Our Heavenly Father. Get right before The Boss." Here's a post from jallyroll. "Ralphie, I don't have time at the moment to dissect your misguided diatribe in detail, but it is clear to me that you have absolutely no real idea of what we are teaching, for if you did, you would see that ALL of it exalts JESUS (and light years beyond anything TWI ever did). It is JESUS who gave Paul all his revelation (Gal. 1:11), so Paul's words could also be in red letters, because they come from the heart of Christ. The question is TO WHOM (Israel or the Church) was Jesus speaking when, and we lay all that out most clearly. Every good thing you say about Jesus is contained in our teachings, in vivid detail. For 28+ years THOUSANDS of former PFAL grads have rejoiced because of how our work has pointed them to a vital, personal relationship with JESUS. Your comments are so far off the mark it is pitiful. Why don't you suspend your incessant vitriol and give our work an honest hearing? If you do, you will see the degree to which we honor our Lord--not only in what we teach but how we deal with those he loves. And, for the record, when did you change your mind about my heart and character, which you have known for years is honest and forthright (just as it was in 1987 when we teamed up for a while)? The way you are spewing lies about me is evidence of your own internal aberrance, and it breaks my heart. I still love you madly, and though you did not return my last phone call, I will call you again to see if we can have a civil discussion. In the meantime, the good news is that JESUS, not you, is determining whether or not we are magnifying him--and the fruit of our labor seems to indicate that he is backing us. So does THE WORD." My reply: Jalvis...... Have you ever read the thread addressed to you and Jeff Blackburn at the GSC? It was written in 2007. You have yet to answer any of those posts from 8 years ago. Do you not recall ever seeing any of those? I find it hard to believe that you really think I have somehow "change(d) (my)your mind about my character" or that you never read anything on that thread I mentioned from 8 years ago. I remember a phone call from a mutual psychiatrist friend who asked me why you would say I was "busting your chops" at the GSC 8 years ago. Do you remember complaining to him 8 years ago about that? Apparently NOT. I have NOT known your "character" to be "honest and forthright" since 1987. I remember telling you how full of crap you were on Momentus and the Graeser's and Schoenheit coming to be on the Board of CES in 1988. Sue Peirce and Robert Belt told you the same thing in 1988, when we a resigned from CES' "founding Board of Directors" because you refused to listen then either. Schoenheit and Greasers worked out real well for you too, didn't they? And, you never have said anything publicly about your whole personal prophecy fiasco, the dumping of your wife and public embarrassment and lying about the same, or your not-so-gracious split from Tocchini and Momentus. Where are all those folks today? Standing right by your side confirming your various phony versions of Vic's monstrosity called twi? As much as Sue, Robert, and I are and have been since 1988?........LOL! What has NOT changed in all these years jal, is YOU, and your worship of wierwille and yourself. THAT's ALL THE SAME. You still cannot work with ANYONE who does not defer to you in all "things of the ministry" you claim to have given your life to for the last 45 years. The same happened to Bob Maffit and will to Bottley, Touchstone, Knopf, Chamberlain, Culver, Wassung, Lewis and Higgins when and if they ever question your version of Da Word. You're still the same you you've always been. You've hurt far more people than you have ever "blessed", and remain to this day your arrogant and self-obsessed self-appointed "hero" for Jesus and vic, who would both be so proud of what you're doing. But, what you ARE is far from what you are saying you're doing. You're so busy "doing" Christ's job for Him, that you do not realize what you're "being" is against that same Christ. You remain as blind as you were when you hitchhiked along on that 37-page letter we wrote in 1987. As a matter of fact, you are more apologetic for and accepting of vic's teachings and "minus-tray" today than you were when you were still fulltime for twi at the writing of that letter. You still believe in the same basics vic did, and you never repented for ALL the behavioral peccadilloes you so readily adopted from him either. Why were you fired by CES/STFI? Why were you defrocked by the very guys you insisted on having in your BOD? What were you believing the word to say while you were publicly disgracing your new wife and CES/STFI over and over again all over the worldwide web? What in the hell was your "Prophetic Council" all about? Why did you listen to them? Why did you teach spiritualist garbage and never explain it to the world you dumped it on? What is your current relationship with Schoenheit, Graeser and Bob Maffit? What is your current relationship with Tocchini and Greg Pharis(sp?)? What's your current relationship with Sue Pierce and Robert Belt, and Pat, and Tom Reahard? Which of your "old, dear, friends and pals" are still your friends jal? I "spew" no lies about you. Point out a couple so we all know what you're talking about, won't you? Don't bother waiting for me to answer a phone call from you JAL. YOU posted the same old crap again here as you were "spewing" in 1987, and refused to answer for in 2007. Post it all on YOUR own site of FB page. You've got enough of them now. You don't need the GSC, or the Way Corps FB page to do your dirty work for you. You don't need Touchstone and Bottley answering for you either. Do it right here, on your own site, in your own words. This is where you've dumped all your junk before. What do you have to hide? Reply from jallymog: "Sorry, Ralph, but I have more important things to do than type my life away answering b.s. allegations from you. You know nothing about most of the things you bring up, and neither do you have any genuine interest in my welfare, so God bless you. See you at the Bema. If you want to talk man-to-man, call me." My last response: "Typical cop out with the same as always ending, "Call me". LOL! Like I said, YOU HAVE YET TO CHANGE YOU. Don't wait for a phone call from me. If 8 years is too long to get an answer from you, my return phone can wait too. Get right with Jesus Christ, and get a life! Your charts aren't giving you much of anything other than aggita."

LOL Tzaia!

"Ralph, you once were one of the finest and brightest. As I noted to you in our previous exchange, I was a fan. What happened to you? Is this how you're following "the Boss" these days? Is this what you, walking out the Lord's business 30 years later, look like? When he tells you to make your calling and election sure, is this what you do - hang out in chat rooms, bullying and insulting people? Have you forgotten, or does it even matter to you any longer, that the Lord hates bullies? When the Lord tells you to walk as he did, with lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love, I'm curious - what courses through yourgrey matter? Do these verses get a chance to bump around in your soul a little, or do you just summarily dismiss them as irrelevantso you can get back to railing on your brethren? Is venom and derision all you have left?"<br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px;">"As for my qualifications, I suppose you're right. I have no theological qualifications ... outside of the holy spirit the Lord gave me and the Bible in my hand. It certainly is very humbling. The wonderful news, however, is that I'm among very good company, since these were precisely the qualifications of most of those biblical characters we know and love. I'm sure glad that the Paul didn't hold Peter to the same standards of authenticity that you seem to want to hold me to, brother. The funny thing is, I was under the impression that a person's true credentials come from Jesus, since the Bible teaches that "... it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends." As I recall, you used to teach this very thing, once upon a time. Do you now disagree with this, Ralph? If so, why? " Jon.......".......the finest and the brightest" at what and among whom? You were "a fan"? Of what? I find it strange that you seem to have enough memories about me to declare you used to be a "fan", and yet, you claim to have no knowledge or recollection of Momentus and your TLTF connection to it and Dan Tocchini. You are a twustee of TLTF, and yet you have no idea what Momentus was and how it destroyed the lives of many of your "chief minister's" followers in CES and STFI? Really Jon?? Convenient memory loss? If you indeed have no knowledge about Momentus and it's connection to the International community of Christian believers you claim TLTF is, then i suggest you either refresh your memory or resign as a twustee of a "ministry" you don't seem to be very knowledgable of, or just plain misspeaking about. Ask your "chief minister" what Momentus was. Jally dumped them too when he couldn't freely plagiarize Tocchini's stuff any more due to "doctrinal differences" between them. Same thing with Schoenheit, Graeser, Gallagher, Patten, Theissens, and everybody else your mog has "tried to work with". Try disagreeing and you'll be next, unless you've still got stuff jally needs to use you for. "hang out in chat rooms bullying and insulting people"? This is a forum for discussing twit and its various off shoots, of which TLTF is a part. I respond to your post and all of a sudden i'm "bullying and insulting people"? Name two please. As far as "how I walk out The Lord's business", whatever that means, your opinion of how i might be doing that is as meaningless to me as anything else your "chief minister" may have an opinion about. "venom and derision'? I'm not sure that your assessment of what goes on in my functional grey matter is worth any more than that of your "chief minister". He still has not answered any of my questions from 2007! Momentus have his tongue? OOppps! Sorry! You don't know anything about Momentus, yet somehow you and jallyroll "know" what's going on in my mind? I think not, Jon. Venom and derision? Examples please, since there must be so many!? For one who feigns profundity with pedantic, meaningless, quotes of 200 year old smarmy, self-righteous opinions which agree with your archaic understanding of the bible, your "insights" into my grey matter are remarkably shallow at best. As far as what YOU "recall" me teaching 30 years ago or not, for someone who has no idea what Momentus was and how it directly relates to the "international community of christian believers" YOUR "ministry" purports to represent, and of which you are a moggy twustee right now, i trust your memory as much as i trust your "chief minister's'. He can"t recall me ever confronting him publicly either, and if you scroll down just a few threads right here in this same forum you're posting in, you'll find a thread addressed to him and his old pal, jeff blackburn, which did exactly that for 3 months daily! and, that was 8 years ago! Some "recall" you dudes have!......LOL! I suppose you have no clue about "personal prophecy" either, do you? Watch out for spiders crawling out of your pals' noses!! Happened to Lizzy Chavez and jally divorced her over it! Who's next? You? Not Bottley, because jally still needs stuff Franco has. He doesn't see the spiders until he's done using you, and, from what i can see here, you don't have much left for jally to use. Better take a memory class from jal's old pal davey bedard. That'll help! But, if jally divorces you, "rev" gerry wrenn will gladly suck you up. There's always a home for wierwille idolators. and, if i disagree with anything i taught 30 years ago, it just might be because, unlike you and jallyroll lynn, i have refused to stay stuck on stupid. I have spent much time in study, critical thought, and self-reflection, regarding all things biblical, scriptural, and spiritual, and have grown far away from 30 year old alcoholic Nazi spiritualism, and the serial adultery and sexual predation that vic and jalvis were so good at and committed to "walking out on". I believe human growth and development are an ongoing part of human life. jalvis believes he got everything he needed to "run a ministry" from vic'n'twit and schoenheit and graesers. He has not repented nor moved on for 30 years now. He's running out of time. dictor paul wierwille, lynn's prayshuss faddah in da woid, ran out of time 30 years ago. jalvis still has a little left. You and he and Bottley need to do the right thing. Dump your charts and get a REAL life....................peace.

When I left the U.S. trunk there were 32,000 "active" wayfers in the USA. That's the highest it ever got, and that's only as reliable as the info that came up through the limbs. That was August, 1984. That was the highest it ever got. So, I think Skyrider's estimates are right in the ballpark.

Are you unable to speak for yourself Jon? A 202 year old quote....and a most pedantic and verbose one at that......somehow "sums up" all you have to admonish us with? It's only been 8 years since jallyroll Lynn showed up here and spoke for himself. What's taken him so long? Your Channing "longest quote ever" was finished 200 years ago. Is that how long it will take jally to come up with any answers of his own? Do you have anything of your own to say? Or are you just a trained parrot for jallymog or Channing? Anything of your very own floating around between your ears that is in any way relevant to anything in any of the threads in this particular forum? It is ALL about JAL and all his various "ministries" he's splattered around the worldwide web and especially here at the GSC. He's been at this garbage since 1987. How long have you had your wagon hitched to his star? Bottley quit CFFM to become jally's puppet. Where did you get your ministerial Christian training and education? Was it at least a different CrackerJack box than Dan Gallagher? Schoenheit? Graesers? Did jally ordain you too, like Knopf, Wassung, and Bottley? What's that ordination "worth"? A free cup of pablum at the TLTF store? By what authority does lynn ordain you guys? Wierwille's? What ministerial association or Bible College signs your ordination certificate, Jon? Is it Bazooka Joe's Seminary and Bible College? The Way C of E? The Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus? the Family Research Counsel? Schoenheit's STFI? Fred's BBQ and Bible Seminary? What are your qualifications for sitting on the Board of Twustees of an International Community of Christian believers, in that penultimate "leadership" position? Master's of Divinity from where? ThD. from where? MBA from somewhere? Undergraduate degree in Biblical Studies somewhere? Moody's Bible Institute? Focus on the Family? Liberty University? Bob Jones University? Oral Roberts University? Oxford? Harvard? Princeton? Sam and Dave's Soul Man University? Dr.Ben Carson's Listening With A Purpose U? ANYTHING? Or are you as totally unqualified and non-credentialed as the rest of your Board of Twustees? I'll tell Ya one thing.......you're more than qualified to post irrelevant, 200 year old "rants" from obscure, self-righteous nobodys. Your Director of Social Media, Ms. Higgins would term that 200 year old Channing nonsense as a "rant" would she not? How about some hint of a real human being instead of a horribly long section of Channing nothingness? Anything coursing through your grey matter that isn't a quote of someone else, Jon?

Jon a Touchstone? A genuine TLTF Board of Twustees member?? OMG! Have you read that Channing quote to you "chief minister"? Humility, mildness and candor might be appropriate to introduce your "chief minister" to Jon. Maybe your pal Bottley too?

Always good to see ya Seth, and to read you. And, your welcome, my pleasure.

LOL WordWolf! Still quite rusty. The mods can remove those three sorrys. I could not figure out how to delete the 2nd post and wound up posting my attempt to delete 3 times! I aplogize.

Double post. Sorry.

Double post. Sorry.

Double post. Sorry.

For several years, I worked as an RN in the OR at Robert Wood Johnson Hospital in NJ. I had the opportunity to meet a very diverse, highly educated and trained compassionate group of great human beings. I worked with a well-renowned vascular surgeon who was from Pakistan. He liked having me in his OR because we enjoyed interesting conversations while working together. He was a devout Muslim. I am not. He often said that the best thing he ever did in his life was leave his native Pakistan and come here to the USA. He felt the USA was the greatest country in the world to live in. I asked him what made him feel and think that. His answer was swift and emphatic. "It is the genius of our Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, and especially the first amendment. To protect the FREEDOMS of religion, and the press, and the rights to peaceably assemble and to demand the redress of our grievances, is to me, the genius of our Bill of Rights. In Pakistan, these freedoms do not exist. And the reason given as to why they don't is because our dominant religion, which is also the religion of the state, refuses to accept anything else and thinks that the dominant religion should determine their laws and freedoms, and that religion should should underpin all government laws and determine societal conduct. That enslaves us all. The genius of keeping the State and all religions separate is what makes us the greatest country in the world. As a citizen by birth, born, raised, and educated in the USA, I realized how much of our founding governing documents I daily take for granted. And, when I saw how much they meant to a very talented man who felt so strongly about them that he gave up a very lucrative and important position in Pakistan to emigrate to the USA, to enjoy those freedoms. I agree with Broken Arrow: "What you are suggesting has been attempted and it didn't work so well. It was during the middle ages and it resulted in inquisitions. It came to where if you didn't agree with the king or authority you risked persecution, or even execution. Then a different authority would gain power and they would persecute for different reasons. There was no freedom for the individual and the carnage was much much worse. I would suggest that tyranny exists where dissent is forbidden and governments as a rule to not like dissent." Indeed, imo, tyranny does exist where dissent is forbidden. I also think our pal Rocky has offered some tremendous information and identified some books which are spot on in describing, exposing, and defining aspects common to cult groups of any kind. Thanks Rock! I agree that attempting to legislate cults out of existence would be tyranny. Most recent horrifying example to me was the spate of RFRAs that were introduced in state legislatures dominated by Christian Dominionists and political conservatives leaning to the far right. RFRA= religious freedom restoration acts, such as in IN, AR, and a number of other "red" states. These were pushed under the guise of supporting and defending the first amendment rights of individual churches and their members, which they interpreted as giving them the right to discriminate against the LGBTQ communities in their states by refusing them services, or products available to the general public simply because of their sexual orientation or "beliefs and practices". I was outraged by these blatant attempts at legalizing religious bigotry through laws "guaranteeing" freedom to discriminate against anyone whose beliefs do not line up with what these various religionists believe to be necessary behavior on the part of a certain group of citizens in order to allow these "freedom fighters" to practice their faith and follow their consciences by totally discriminating against the members of the LGBTQ communities in their states because they do not live their lives according to the dictates of the lawmakers interpretation of the Christiam religions' doctrines or practices. Totally opposite the First Amendement guarantees of freedom of religion they claim to be protecting by these bigoted, unconstitutional laws! Sounds like the Pakistan Dr. Khan left! That same First Amendment they claim the protection or restoration of by legalized bigotry, also protects our right to the freedom of critical thinking and freedom of speech and freedom of the press and the right to peaceable assemble and demand redress of our grievances. ALL of those together allow for peaceful dissent, rational, uncensored dialogue and informed, unrestricted, political debate. In other words, they protect us from TYRRANY, which was one of the fundamental causes of our Revolutionary War. Imo, it is sad that a talented and highly educated naturalized citizen from Palistan has more love and respect for our Constitution than many of our own, Ametican born "patriots"! Tyranny for any reason is WRONG, and unacceptable, at least in the USA. The right to free speech, an unfettered press, to believe what we choose to believe and think what we choose to think, and to freely and openly dissent and debate with those who disagree, must NEVER BE ABRIDGED for any reason, philisophy, or religious ideology. NEVER!

That has always been the heart and guts of this site Steve! And......thanks much Charlene for accurizing the dates.

Great Bertrand Russell quote Rocky! Thanks!

"Rev" gerry was in da 2nd corpse with Charlene and his first wife, Su3 Wil$on. He runs the single most smarmy, over-schmalzed, wierwille worship offshoot of them all, imo. As a matter of fact, just today, on his FB page, he was trying to pull off a repeat as the mighty east coast USA hurricane stopper by "rebuking" Joaquin from the Carolina and Virginia coasts. When he was the limp coordinator in FL, he claimed to have surrounded the entire state of FL with a "ring of angels" to protect God's people,(and nobody else) from one of those big hurricanes like Andrew or Ivan or some such. Always made me scratch my head in disbelief when jerks like dictor paul and his faithful son, "rev" gerry would "glorify Gawd" with tales of how "every house in the neighborhood was blown or flooded away EXCEPT for where the deluded wayfers lived because of their super-powerful, rightly-divided, christ-in-you, believing prayers. And, then take credit for "how much worse it would have been for all those poor, sub-human natural men and unbelievers had it not been for that ring of angels "rev" gerry commanded into action in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen! See why you should keep sending me your $$?? So, in effect, "rev" gerry et al are teaching the mind numbed ex-wayfers that, the love of God in the renewed in manifestation DOES INDEED rejoice in iniquity!" Just thought the GSC community might be interested in examining today's latest from "rev" gerry himself. Judge for yourself and tell us all what you think. I am most interested in your thoughts, opinions, and emotions when you read it. TY. Pray for my son please. His fantasy football teams are getting crunched on this longest NFL game day evah! "Dearly beloved, it is Sunday and we are still here, Joaquin or not. We can still pray for our brethren along the coast and the resulting flooding from the hurricane. From our exalted position in Christ in the spiritual realm, we can exercise the mighty power entrusted to us for good, for deliverance. Ephesians 3:20 WT Now to Him Who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we request or think about, according to the power that works in us, In Christ, we are complete, filled to the full. We are strengthened with the power of his spirit. It is all in all of us. Because of this, we can be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his exerted ability for us. Our Father blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realm in Christ. We are seated there in Christ, we walk in this realm, and we must stand in this realm as the mighty sons of God we are. The day is swiftly coming that we will stand there when our Lord returns for us. Our wrestling is in the spiritual realm beloved, against the strategies of the god of this world, the devil, and against the spirits of wickedness in the heavenly realm - not against the senses realm. As we would train if we were in a physical wrestling match, we must train to compete in the wrestling match in the spiritual realm. Ephesians 6:10 and following lays it out for us. The key to igniting the power of God in us is the renewing of the mind: thinking God’s thoughts so we can prove His will, believing God’s Word concerning who we are in Christ so we are able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the wicked one, standing in the contest in which we wrestle. Beloved, look at situations from God’s perspective, from His vantage point in the heavenly realm. We are enabled men and women in Christ. Pray always with every prayer in the spirit and stay on watch with all perseverance concerning them for all saints. Dear ones, exercise yourself unto godliness: that real, true, vital, spiritual relationship with God in the spiritual realm."