DontWorryBeHappy

Question everything......especially self-appointed authority in the name of gawd! It's good to be king.

Hi MRAP..... Linda Mac was third corpse. Her daughters' names are Becky and Amy. She was the first single parent ever in the corpse. There was no family corpse back then. i had known Linda back in the old Way East. She lived in Natick, MA and would come down to Rye for various events. I liked her. I do not know where she is now. i hope she's well. Geissler married this 6th corpse guy Steve Strzepek. They stayed in into the 90's and were running Gunnison when they finally quit or got the boot. They live in CT now. They signed the loyalty oath to da forehead in early 1990. i have not spoken to either one since i left in december, 1986. Linda stayed until Dave Standage, 4th corpse was there for a year, followed by Paul and Cindy Brautigam when they graduated from the 5th corpse. A decision on whether or not believers should attend your wedding would be made at the limb level for WOWVETS. If you were a WOW, then it would include the region coordinator and Bill Winegarner the WOW coordinator at HQ. I doubt that's what occurred with your wedding. Sounds to me like whomever was your interim 5th corpse nemesis filled her head with a bunch of BS about you which Linda most likely never really checked into. Sounds like you somehow got on his/her enemies list. I think that is most unfortunate for you and your new wife, and unfortunately, as the corpses grew in number the abuses did also. It is not uncommon for traumas like you experienced to be brought back to mind by something as simple as a name or a face. No need to apologize for any "rant" either. What i have always appreciated from the GSC is how many thousands of people have been able to accurately fit the puzzles of their years in twit together objectively with FACTS. You left nearly 40 years ago. There are members of the GSC who were in for that long and still in today. It is only after folks overcome the emotional juggernaut of realizing the truth about twit and its "leaders", that the real, objective reflection and understanding of the false doctrine and perverted practices of twit's top echelon, who were and remain a bunch of Aryan Supremacists, alcoholic serial sexual predators who taught and continue to teach anti(against)-Christ false doctrine. And, the offshoots perpetuate the same poison they stole from their "father in the word" in a "kinder, gentler" bible cult. That's the perspective i have to offer re: your experiences in WI. Hope you were able to navigate around all the insults..................peace.

You might benefit from LISTENING to what's said up here outside of your happy safety zone down in doctrinal where the very patient members hang out from time-to-time. surprising that you're still reacting strongly to stuff from 40 years ago! Having trouble "moving on"?

mrap......you seem to be arttributing much of your corpse-hate on your experience with Gei$$ler in Osh Kosh, and whoever followed her from the interim 5th, or you're mad at MacDuffie for being the Limb gal. And you question the benefit of having had the GSC around for the last 16 years? You are still so hopelessly lost in twit doctrine it's no wonder your "heroes" are jallyroll and schoenheit. They make total sense to you, don't they? Don't they have websites where you can ask them all the banal questions that you ask here, don't they? Opps! They USED TO, but now that they've anointed themselves the most accurate bible teachers since the 20th century, they don't bother with questions or counterpoint anymore. They just speak ex cathedra, and ex-twits such as yourself gobble it up and only ask questions of people whose answers you do not want to here IMO. You keep whining about the GSC.....complaining about or "trashing" vic and his keedz like schoenheit and jalvis. How is that any different from you "trashing" all the "turds" in the corpse you followed? You have described yourself as a "turd" here on every forum except doctrinal. You learned quite well how turdiness works. Guess you owe more of your current "faith" to the corpse turds you met than you do to Christ, eh? Physician, heal thyself! You've got questions? Ask the idiots who gave them to you. You keep feigning genuine interest in getting answers to your questions by asking them over and over and over again as if the GSC OWES you the answers. NO! The morons you choose to follow "confused" you, so ask them to unscramble the mess they've made of your brain. We owe you nothing but to love you. And, you make that a full-time job around here for some of the "regulars" who've been posting here for 16 years. I truly admire Raf for his evenhanded and very objective administration of this site. i'd have thrown you out a year ago. He's a better moderator than i am, that's for sure. Please mrap,......just dump your turds in Doctrinal and don't bother the non-brainwashed at the rest of the forums. TY. TTFN.

Accepting the entirety of the Bible as the revealed word and will of gawd is a matter totally grounded in the willfull choice to believe it is such, i.e. "Faith". I absolutely do not believe that at all. What these "biblical researchers" worship as The Word is a simple collection of ancient Hebrew writings, selected Hebrew national history, the creation story according to the Hebrews, some metaphorical and allegorical poetry/praise/prayer writings and meditations, war histories, religious conflicts between Israel and whomever, "spiritual" opinions and predictions relative to Hebrew teaching and religious practice, records of the religious and sociopolitical struggles of the Hebrew people. I do not accept the premise that all the folks who wrote the "originals" were writing only "godbreathed" stuff. I believe that sometimes they did indeed wrote spiritual truth, rather passages offering insight into a deeper part of human life. but NOT every single word and sentence was "given by inspiration of God" IMO. So, all twits and offshoot twits immediately write off ANYTHING I say. There are scores of perspectives, writings, and "tapes" of everybody's theology about everything. The overriding fact is that, the decision to accept or reject any "spiritual" pursuit or belief is completely individual and personal IMO. Though I have chosen Christ and that line of spiritual thinking to be the best for me, I do not believe that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY to god or spiritually fruitful living. IMO there are many "ways" of equal worth and good fruit. Different terminology, different names, but the identical fruit of the spirit against which "there is no law". That is my number one criterion. I will know them by their fruit.

Well said Raf. TY.

Good post WordWolf. At the advanced class 1972 in Rye, NY, vic played the tape of Oral Roberts' preaching on The Red Thread. After the tape, Vic got into a rap about how he almost got hooked up with Oral and Billy Graham. His plan was for them to do the evangelizing and then send all their converts to vic to be under the Teacher at The Way. Vic said evangelism was not his "long suit" but t it was Graham's and Roberts. He said the thwarting point was the Trinity. The usual excuse for his obnoxiousness and pugnacity, which turned off everyone who wasn't in vic's Way. Lazy back then already expecting everyone else to evangelize as WordWolf posted, and then send all those new students Vic's way. I'll be the apostle, prophet and teacher, the pope of New Knoxville hanging out at the family farm where he was born. Handy dandy, eh?

Thanks for your input Raf. I agree mrap can ask anything he wants. He can believe whatever he chooses to and say it. Frankly, I am annoyed at the same questions over and over again despite a good volume of info spoon fed him by a number of posters here in answer to those questions. I believe he is patronizing down here. I mean when a member admits to purposely being "a little turd" on every forum except Doctrinal, and then continues along as if no one ever answered him, well, that just gets rude and mean. His questions have been answered excellently by educated folks here several times now. Apparently he is either not reading or hearing what is said. Then he repeatedly insults the GSC by saying the site is worthless, how many new members or twit refugees has the Spot had in the last year?.... Whom have we really helped if anyone? All we do is bash everyone he loves and follows according to him. There's no objectivity here, nothing here he can't get at any other site, he doesn't like this forum or that sub-forum, and he demands things be done his way and then whines when they aren't. I will do my best to comply with the rules and play nice. Feel free to delete any posts of mine you deem inappropriate on any forum here. I have respect for this site and for the people who have kept it going and continue to do so. I love this place. I will do my best to play nice. TY.

Hi Twinky! Good question. The most accurate definition that I know is the one you ended your post with. That is what apostolos(sp?) most basic meaning is. There are many Churches which have varying understanding and definition of an apostle. Every mainstream Christian denomination has something to say about apostles. There are also many Apostolic churches and ministries here in the US. There is a good sized portion of black folk here who have Apostolic Churches. They all define apostle differently, and most often their definitions reflect their core Christian belief and church tradition or history. There is quite a lot of writing done on this topic so there is quite a lot of muddling through volumes of stuff to find out what the various churches and sects believe. My take? The same as the definition you gave from Bible Dictionary. A Christian Apostle is one sent by Jesus Christ to do The Lord's bidding. Pretty simple. All the stuff about new light, old light, dim light, is all vic's own PI. It was all designed so that if you accepted vic's definitions of the "gift ministries", you would "figure out" that vic made the definitions in a manner where all definitions pointed to vic as a current, biblically defined apostle, prophet and teacher. He never claimed to be an evangelist or pastor, but he sure made it appear as if he had the big three as listed in Corinthians. So if you accepted vic's definitions then you would reflexively accept that vic had at least the big three, and some thought all 5! In the large denominations and many smaller churches there is a common point to their qualifications for apostleship. The doctrine is that in order to be a real Apostle, one had to have seen Jesus, either in person like the original 12, or by revelation as Paul did on the road to Damascus. Some also believe there must be an assigned mission from Jesus that each apostle is called to carry out, thus being sent out by Christ to do His bidding. So again, my take is that a Christian Apostle is a man or woman called by Christ to carry out a specific mission on His behalf, sent out by Christ to do His bidding. That's it for me. I believe God's description of an Apostle is purposely vague so that the carnal mind would not come up with all their own qualifications and definitions, all of which put Christ and His Apostles into a man made box, just like vic did. No limitations, qualifications as far as God's concerned in my book. Far too constrictive and limiting IMO, of both Jesus and His Apostles. What's your take Twinky?

Hi Spectrum49! I agree with Waysider. What you shared was thoughtful and peacefully spoken. TY! You posted quite a bit of info, so I will just take one part and use that as a starting point in this post, if you don't mind. You posted: "As a general rule, an apostle is one who brings new light to God's people. It may be old light, but is certainly new to those receiving it. (Certainly, I don't wish to put these apostles in a box, as though that's all they really do. But that you might see where I'm coming from a bit quicker, this particular attribute of an apostle speaks clearly as to the special order I'm concerned with in this verse.)". As you admitted forthrightly, you are quoting Vic and Wierwille doctrine in your "definitions" of the three "gift ministries" you cover in your post. Thank you for doing so. It provides a good starting point for meaningful discussion IMO. However, can you please document those "definitions" with scripture? I think not. And THAT's why I question the logic of your entire premise. What scripture do you have to back up your premises? I see none. Unless you use all the wierwille tricks like scripture build-up, first occurrence, and how it's been used before. Which, BTW, are all plagiarized from Bullinger's How To Enjoy The Bible. ALL those wierwilleisms are NOT scriptural nor accurate. If you choose to use Way theology to make strong points for Vic's and your interpretation of what the "gift ministries" are and how they function in the Church, you will be sorely disappointed in that such teaching is spurious at best, and completely private interpretation. In case you're wondering where all vic's "gift ministry" definitions and hooey came from, it is verbatim B.G. Leonard and Bullinger. So, they are who you believe in and follow according to vic's "accurizing" their private interpretations. Is that truly your choice? Are you aware of the background of ALL of vic's "research and teaching"? I think not. Since we all know vic NEVER taught one ounce of "original" anything, how do you know what you believe and why, nor with whom it originated. If you choose to base your understanding and belief of scripture on Vic's plagiarized private interpretation of the works of others, then so be it. Thank god we live in America where we have the RIGHT to believe what we choose. My only suggestion to you is, do you fully know what and whom you chose to believe when it comes to the Bible? If you feel you do, awesome. But I would suggest further examination of who and what you believe and comparing that to what the Bible actually says. Then you have the luxury of determining for yourself what you believe and why. Just my 2 cents FWIW...............peace.

Since you are a follower of schoenheit and lynn, vic is still quite alive in you. Plagiarizing the plagiarizer and others is their trademark. Where do you think they each get 80% of all their doctrine and classes from? Funny that you should need to come here to the GSC to gain your "research expertise". You're a self-described follower of schoenheit and lynn, the 2 greatest living biblical "researchers" on the planet in their own minds. Why not go to them with all your foolish questions about the rev? Don't trust them? Or, just trolling the GSC for them?"

mrap...... let me begin with a quote from a post of your's down in the Doctrinal Forum: "I realize that JS has past twi ties and that makes him and anything he does a GSC target but please, looking past that, take a look at the work that has been done on the REV and respond. I know this is a personal request. If the research is bad, I want to know. Yes, I am a little turd on other forums but when it comes to the doctrinal forum: I be all eyes and ears." YES! you are a turd on this forum. irritatingly and persistently so. You got tons of great work spoonfed to you by Raf, Waysider, WordWolf, Mark Sanguenetti, Steve Lortz and Tzaia down there. Since you're "all eyes and ears" down there, why not stop being the huge turd you are on the other forums you don't like? You said you read "religiousely" down there. Great! Read on McTurd, and spare us your turdiness up here. Thank you very much. TTFN. 0

I gotta give you credit, DWBH, nothing much there that I would be proud off, then again, it's your post and you understand the intent of your post. So, how did you resond to the IRS agent given your internal knowledge of those finances? I gotta say, I appologize for calling you a coward; what you said takes alot of guts. mrap......i could care less what YOU may or may not be "proud off". Your words and you aptly display your deep grammatical and syntactical poverty. All i know about you here at the GSC is from your posts. They are rife with misspelled words and prejudiced by your own admission. When you get lynn and schoenheit to answer your incessant and increasingly ridiculous questions regarding that comic book you call the rev in the Doctrinal Forum here, then i'll tell you how i responded to the IRS and the DOJ 30 years ago, OK? Until then, buy an English Dictionary, learn how to write, and find some functional living grey matter for your next post. You don't need to apologize to me. What you call me or think of me is completely meaningless. IMO, it communicates nothing but your own complete stagnation in the twit of 1975, and stfi's and tlf's of today. Nothing credible nor of any lasting redeeming social value or import. No "genuinely helping people" other than wasting those peoples' monies on another piffle redux, or some insignificant meeting or advance somewhere, or their own "needs" and lusts which are many because that's what it takes to "move the woid" and 'take the place of your absent jeeeesus". Lemme know when jalvis gets his motor coach. Lemme know when schoenheit answers all your rev questions. turn on the lights mrap.......your twit party's over.

Hi SkyRider! For years now you have continued to share facts and insights about the rise and fall of the twit reich and its illustrious modern day Saul of Tarsus. Your words and insights have helped very many people disentangle themselves from the death-grip twit'n'vic had them in. Your faithful persistence to tell the truth about all you know has helped thousands. Thanks man! It only took Vic's oldest begotten so , his best friend in life, and his #1 student one seventh the time to completely dismantle and destroy the monster vic had created and brought to life. It took him 42 years. Da forehead and the boyz in the hoods only needed 6 years to kill it and lock it up behind the walls of Zion. When I left in 1986, the USA was a "real" trunk. There were 10 "real" regions, 51 limbs (including Puerto Rico) almost 400 fulltime and 700 part-time employees. There were the trunks of Europe, South America, Africa, Australia, Canada, Mexico, and India. Until geer's POP debacle, twit was barreling along amassing a personal fortune for the twustees and their families. Well, the dancing prez and his men in tights ate that up and crapped it out with a frenzy of insanity and serial sexual and emotional abuse that consumed all of it in a a few short years. What's left? I never knew Rupp. But, when I was the corpse director and in-Rez corpse coordinator at HQ, it was the 15th and 17th that were in-Rez. When they returned from their interim year, da forehead separated out who had been at HQ and "influenced" by the seed-boy, during their first year in-Rez. He made especially sure to erase any trace of the evil I left behind. So, he was gonna train them X-tree special like their mentor, and they were all to become the future top leaders of this new iteration of twit. The result was what you read above in Skyriders last two posts. A fascist, totalist "war machine" was built for DEFENSE from the possessed hordes of cop-outs, debbil spurts and seed boys surrounding their puny household, sycophants and perverts behind the walls of the promised land, where king okie held court and ruled the world from safety. That sounds like being ambassadors for Christ doesn't? So this punk foot reichsmarshall shows up in your limb to inspect it for Der Fuehrer Forehead, clean it up, and report back to Zion. What region was he the overlord of? How many "limbs"? How many old fashioned bursting twigs? How many classes were you running? And, most importantly, how much money were you bringing in? My last year as trunk guy the aggregate total of income from the US trunk was $54 million dollars plus profits from bookstore sales and spayshull events. The entire expense for the entire trunk was 5.2 million dollars, which included salaries, rents and expense accounts for full and part-timers, Vehicles and material assets were included. That meant we operated the ENTIRE US trunk on less than 10% of our income, a 90% "profit" margin totally tax free! That means twit, in 1984, had $50 million of tax-free income just from the US trunk alone! Just in case you were wondering where the huge "nest egg" comes from which they live off of today. I read above that "board of director" Rupp oversaw a budget of 3.8 million. Was that as a VP or as the trunk guy? Either way it ain't nothin'.......LOL. The guy's an illiterate moron which is obvious from reading his manufactured resume. But, since he was personally trained by the man who could run (into the ground) any top Fortune 500 hundred company anywhere on Earth, it makes sense that this Rumpp....'er skuse me Rupp....can do the same! After all, he's corpse dammit!......./LOL! I 'd have enjoyed having this Hitler youth guy as a region guy back in the early 80's. He would have lasted maybe 6 months without getting into any extra-curricular "troubles". Bill green and Michael fort and whomever else they made trunkchoppers were nothing but asskissing underlings or relatives of some twustees or idiot "old timer". They ran what might have been an averaged size region in the trunk of the 80's and called it a trunk. They ran a Nazi concentration camp and called it their International HQ. The second Twitreich was less than 10% of the first, and probably even less now. If you're looking for a great corporate and spiritual executive demolition expert, hire a former twit executive. Guaranteed to have you broke and misunderstood within two years or your money back. "This guy" is a moron. If ya need one, call The Reacher at 419-753-2523 and ask for his best!

Articulate and insightful post mstar1 and Twinky! Thank you both.

Hello TLC. On this thread you posted the following as a wierwilleism that "still holds up today", the following: "If you lose the perspective of what genuinely helps people, you no longer have the truth." Then, shortly thereafter, on this same thread, you posted the following: "What it means, in essence, is: IF you think you have (arrived at) or hold "the truth" (aka, "the one and only true interpretation") of scripture, but have lost the perspective on what genuinely helps people, THEN you no longer have the truth."<br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px;"> It's nice to see that over the years, twit refugees have devolved from quoting vic's private interpretations of the Bible as if they were actuality credible and that they emanated from him, to now quoting the alcoholic Nazi serial sexual predator and rapist himself, and offering their private interpretation of vic's private interpretation of the Bible and his ape-like mimicry and blatant plagiarism of EVERYTHING he ever taught. Somehow, by the pathological contortion of reason and logic, this regurgitated mish mash of baloney is somehow equated with "moving da woid" and "genuinely help[ing] people'. Please TLC, can you name me one thing that twit as a "minus-tray" ever did to genuinely help people in the various communities around this country in which there were WOWS, or twigs or corpse? You know, like doing the things Christ did, and living the way Christ taught us we can and should? You know, like things Jesus taught us to DO. You know, like feed the starving, shelter the destitute, clothe the naked, pray for fellow disciples, give voice to the silenced, share strength with the weak, uplift the downtrodden, defend the defenseless, take care of your children and your elderly, pray for the sick and dying, touch the untouchable, and love the unloveable. "Thou shalt love The Lord thy God with all thy heart, thy soul, thy mind and thy strength, and Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Upon these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Twit defined "genuinely helping people" as researching da woid so you can invent more classes which cost more money to take, then make up teachings and revelations to "prove" it all, start fellowships/twigs and "programs" so we can collect our 15% of everybody's income and run more classes ad nauseum. And the circle of twit-life "goes round and round and round in the circle game" (Joni Mitchell). That's what Jesus Christ meant when he sent the 70 out 2 by 2. Go out there, get a part-time job and coerce (witness) to everyone you can, and we'll keep the classes and the horns of plenty coming from Jerusalem until the Lord returns. How does THAT "genuinely help people" more than doing it the way Jesus Christ taught us?? Ephesians IS NOT "the apex of all revelation to the Christian Church". Jesus Christ is the only Apex of all revelation period, imo. Where in da woid does it say, "Paul of Tarsus was the greatest Apostle/mog of the first century"? Where in the Bible does it say that the only things in the Bible directed specifically and particularly to the Christian Church are contained in the Pauline Epistles? Where are the AC definitions of the "manifestations"? Since none of that is in the Bible, where did it come from? Are we called Christians or Paulians? Who's the author and finisher of faith? Paul? my contention is that twit as a minus-tray did nothing close to what Jesus taught us the Christian Church could and should do to prove their identity by producing fruit of the spirit, not producing more classes and inventing more programs. They genuinely helped themselves to peoples' money, spouses and daughters. It was basically "a counterfeit" to give anything to anyone else except them. Especially all those seed-boy run denominations, and every other major religion on the planet. How many food banks could they have stocked with all the $$ they spent just on Motorcoaches and airplanes? How many WOWS who had no money for rent, fuel, or food could have been helped by not buying and building all those "root locales" and buildings everywhere and amassing all that property and real estate? How much $$ was skimmed out of all that ABS cash and Bookstore receipts? How many people were promised the minus-tray would take of them for life and then got dumped as soon as they needed medical or psychiatric help? How many homeless folks were genuinely helped with a hot meal, hot shower, and a good coat? How many Harleys, Lincolns, german shorthairs, trustee fully decked out hunting and fishing trips, coprse chalets and auditoriums does it take to genuinely help people? And, what genuine help did twit provide in tangible, meaningful, real ways to the rest of the country and the world? Since twit never had TRUTH, WHEN and HOW could and did they lose it?

mrap.......you do not own nor moderate this site. i can post whenever and wherever i want. you're not the boss here. and yes, i do not expect to discuss it anymore on this thread.It all depends on how much disinformation and non-credible baloney may come continue to come up.. honestly, ask the "authors". "Well, I made a mistake in thinking that responses would be objective - DWBH just proved that. There's way too much emotion and dislike for twi off-shoots to make that possible for objective evalution of the REV." Again, one more time, this site exists to tell "the other side" of twi's fairytales and stories. offshoots are as much a part of twi history as vic was. your stfi and tltf groups are simply carrying on the plagiarism of the plagiarizer in chief. ALL their "stories" have been posted here for 9 years now. that's way before you ever graced us with your presence and foolish questions. no, you will not find very many supporters or followers of twit or any offshoot around here. We've heard so much of their side of the story that the counterpoint based upon actual FACTS and firsthand, eyewitness accounts is most necessary to be told. THAT'S why several of the offshoots have their own forums here. These guys have pumped out so much baloney that the other side of their stories needs to be exposed just like their faddah in da woid needed and needs to be. Perhaps you confuse direct and transparent communication of FACTS with "too much emotion", or "dislike"? Or maybe YOU have a more "objective evaluation" since you stated in your profile back in March of 2015, that you are a happy "follower" of schoenheit and lynn, your objectivity is already questionable at best if it exists at all. i find your questions and much of what you post here to be disingenuous. Why do you persist when those with anything to say in response to your questions have done so and no one really cares about what your doctrinal "questions" about that comic book are. oh, and, i really do not care about what YOU expect or anticipate from me or anyone else around. Boss yourself around for awhile before you try to boss us all around and tell us what YOU "expect" or "anticipate" from us. Thank you very much. TTFN.

From what I recall, the "banner year", the year the "great mystery" got out was 1974-75. First interim year 4th corpse assigned to way prod and/or HQ, 4th corpse in Rez for their 2nd year, 1st year in-Rez 5th, 1st corpse back for first sabbatical year, and the first special or family corpse ALL were at HQ. That year, vic taught Ephesians on corpse nights. After the grace teaching early on, overt wife swapping and sexual affairs popped up all over the place. Some people left, some were "kicked out", several couples divorced and others ran off with one another.....a real zoo. By the time I returned from my interim year in NC the cover-up was full throttle. But before vic put the kibosh on ANY discussion re: the Ephesians teachings were restricted to the research dept., Cliff Adelman sat me down at the Ochs house where he lived on his interim year and tearfully recounted some of the stuff the happened to our good friends in the fifth corps. My choice was to stick with Vic and Howard's line: "If you did not see it you don't know". That was the year Gary Donhoff of the 5th corpse was killed in a car wreck coming back to HQ from a "snack run" during the Klenz. Vic accused all who cheated on the Klenz of MURDER! John Knave, the driver was basically banished. His marriage broke up and his wife got involved with another 5th corpse married man. Both of them eventually got tossed too and both marriages were ended. One of them died a horrible death from gastric ca. One horror story after another. The piffle red thread was becoming a Persian tapestry of sexual promiscuity, adultery, and death. It continued downhill from there and vic went to the grave with the red thread now a red brick road through the heart of twit.

Well, it's coming up on March. Jallyroll and his boyz have postponed their new world shattering jeeezus class again. Last May, to last June or July, to November, to March 2016 and now to May-June 2016. That's a year of postponing! Where's all the money going?? Or, are you just banking the $$ and telling the world you're still "workin' on it"? Buy your RV/Motorcoach yet? Check with Bo. He's got a nice one. Maybe he can hook ya up? Or.....maybe those old wayfers are running outta $$?? If they've been giving to you fools it doesn't surprise me. No God of Jesus Christ to bless your phony gimme your money research and teaching. So? Which is your priority jallyboy? RV, full-time for jeeeezus, or another piffle redux? Decisions, decisions. How many ways can I waste other people's monies?? If anyone can, jallyboy can. You suckers giving him your dough?? You are giving a free ride for doing absolutely NOTHING! How do his classes heal or teach anybody? How do they "take the place of the absent Christ"? How do they do what Jesus Christ did? How do they feed the starving, clothe and shelter the destitute, touch the untouchable, love the broken and outcast? What does their "MINISTRY" actually DO to help people in real, tangible, material ways??? Post another 20 hour class on how to privately interpret the bible to start your own religious cult? How much $$ did TLTF send to those poor folks in the Phillipines who wrote desperate for help? How much did lynn, Bottley, and touchstone send??? Or, did they hit up you "big fish donors" to cough up their dough? Hypocrites! Whited sepulchers. Merchants of the innocent and slaves of your own lusts and greed. As if Lizzy Chavez's marriage to jallyboy somehow endued her with as much "power and accuracy" as her numbskull husband(for the second time). Gimme a break. I'd like to know the latest MLM she's hawking. It's a habit of her's you know. She really needs to be fulltime too doesn't she? We've got to spare the unsuspecting from Lizzy's MLM ministries! Please! Make them fulltime!!! So, on this post-Valentine's Day update, I'd like to thank TLTF and its Board of Twustees for showing us how the love of money and obsession with oneself is what their minus-tray and they are all about. God bless you guys and your spiritual VD this February!

I've already posted everything I need to say about that piece of junk. No "doctrinal" discussions needed, ok MRAP? It's a sham and so is its author. No one other than STFI or TLTF gives it any credence let alone ever reading it or using it as an aid to anything but use of the toilet. That's the last I'm saying about your stupid waste of ink, paper, and ego. Why don't you invite schoenheit or jallyroll over to the doctrinal forum and have them answer all your stupid questions?? They might be happy to provide discourse from "outside the GSC" like you suggested. What's stopping them and you? FEAR of logical, reasonable counterpoint and and facts? I'm sure Raf would be happy to give them the time and space to do so. Get your info straight from the authors. Why do you persist in asking us who obviously do not give a rat's foot about the rev or its authors. YOU'RE the one who keeps beating the dead sow. Do you just want to start fights so you can prove how little respect you get cuz you ain't corpse or whatever? Like Hape4me said, you're the only one who keeps bringing up your low self-esteem not any of us. So, bye bye on this rev topic for me. Stick a fork in it MRAP. It's done.

Hi All! My 2 cents FWIW...... I think that entire rap about the drunk showing up at choich, whether invented or real, is part of a subtle thread which runs throughout piffle. It's like the red thread. What is it? An attempt by vic to pre-emptively mitigate the accusations which had been thrown at him effectively before this filming project in late 1967. Namely that, vic was a drunk and a "womanizer". These went as far back as Van Wert and were definitely part of why the UCC dangcanned him. They fired him and then he wrote his "resignation" letter in August, 1956 or 57. Upon moving it all back to the family farm where he grew up in New Knoxville, the locals, who couldn't stand young vic when he lived among them, were not shaking their heads that the boy was fired by the Church for drinking and carousing with his young secretary Rhoda Beckett, a Mennonite from NY, along with others in his congregation. The "rumors" were quite effective because first of all, they were factual, and secondly, the NK residents were quite well aware of vic's varied peccadilloes while he terrorized the town's girls and bullied the boys. So, when he returned to the family farm after being fired by the UCC, H.E. bought up the shares of the other siblings, and he was back home facing the reputation he had made for himself as a young man in town and the rumors, which everyone knew were true, of why the church fired him. And so the feud was rekindled and continues today even though no wierwilles are left in twit. Piffle was filmed in Dayton. The biggest fellowships were in Troy, Xenia, and several towns surrounding New Knoxville like Sidney and St. Mary's. Vic's church along with all the whispers about the fired UCC guy who had his own church now. The rumors never stopped and now followed him wherever he went. So, he constantly did everything he could to squelch, deny, and minimalize the rumors even in piffle. Examples? The drunk story. Vic was a boozer since high school. Everybody knew it. He'd get dangfaced and race his motorcycle all over the place doing "tricks" and scaring people. He was the prankster, practical joker who consistently ....ed people off. The NKers knew all this. So did Shelby and auglaize county sheriffs. So, the whole drunk story was throw in there not to teach grace but rather to obviate vic's "license to sin" practice of grace. How did he respond to the drunk guy incident? He became one! But, we don't need to confront him. We need to love and forgive him by god's grace just like vic Did for the drunk and like Jesus does for you. "That's the living thing to do." Then, in that section in Acts where he's "handling" Paul's thorn in the flesh. Remember? "Whaddya think his back looked like? Whaddya think his back looked like? Why some even accused the great Apostle Paul of being a sex pervert! A sex pervert! Imagine that? Well I'd sure as heck would need to be absolutely sure I was right before I'd lay something like that at the feet of the greatest apostle in the first century church! That's riiight! A sex pervert! Lordy Pete!". Sound familiar? Interesting he'd throw that one specific charge in there that is NOT recorded anywhere in scripture. Again, a pre-emotive strike to obviate the other FACT about Vic that followed him his whole life. A drunken molester of women and a bully. And, the pre-emptive obviating was quite effective all through the 70's. But, then the facts caught up with them all, and down fell the cradle, baby and all. Vic was ALWAYS on alert. But the young jerks like da forehead, Beence finnegan, wrenn, lynn, and a bunch of other young turks were lazy. They had it handed to them and thought it was their right. Didn't take long before they all got caught and when the heat started turning on Vic, he retired and got outta dodge. And, when he died he left Geer behind to take it all back from the guys who screwed it all up......his oldest biological son Don, his best friend Howard, and his best student da forehead. He died a "winner" and took his balls to the grave with him. Which is why his son Don, at the end of a Yak Twig meeting in the motorcycle shed in 1986, tearfully screamed......"He's .... dead and still he tortures me from the grave!". Nice legacy.

Good post Twinky. TY.

Are you better now? I'm sorry you thought I was dissing Paul when it was victor paul I was dissing. Kinda makes the point. Hope you don't get sick again now.

Arthur Pink wrote a book, "Why Four Gospels" which I used as a great source for a section on that Tabernacle/Temple class, Sunesis. Interesting that you've run across him too. Lotsa good writing he did.

Wonderful post Sunesis. TY.