DontWorryBeHappy

Don't worry Raf. I'm outta this thread.

Thanks Raf!

TY TLC. It's nice to see someone still has ALL the answers regarding rightly-dividing the Bible. Maliciously?? Calm down Mr. Paranoid. Obviously you don't want to discuss. You seem to want to argue to me. Talk about a waste of time.........have a nice life

"The question now is who is ignoring these scriptures right after the scriptures you say the pastor quoted from? Are you ignoring them or did he or she ignore them? And NO, not every government follows this all the time. If all nations would follow this then we would not have wars between nations under their governing authorities. However, sorry, but we have had wars between nations. Do wars between nations show love and follow the below? :confused:/>". Whose "scriptures? Hindu? Buddhist? Islamic? Hebrew? Egyptian? Goes back to my question....." Who and what determines what is scriptura? Until that question is answered all else is dogmatic rhetoric IMO. Until "scriptures" is defined, there is no logical context to further discussion. Therefore whomever is ignoring what is functionally irrelevant to the discussion. "And NO, not every government follows this all the time." Then the Word of contradicts itself does'nt it? Whoops! There goes your ultradispensationalist rightly dividing fantasy! Why would God direct us to obey the gummint when that gummint is immoral or anti(against) Christ? Makes no sense as Tom pointed out.

"Next we have Romans chapter 13. This is the equivalent of the police for overcoming evil in our age. Obviously, the police must have high standards of justice for all. There goal is to protect the loving and peaceful against thieves and murderers. If they don't follow high standards, obviously they need to get fired. Paul here shows confidence that they would follow high standards". Mark, please. Says WHO? YOU? Some commentary you read and learned somewhere? False equivalence is a logical fallacy. IMO, your "equivalent to the police for overcoming evil in our age."......is just that, a false equivalency. Dude! Are you really serious? You literally believe THAT? Please tell me. I most certainly DO NOT. Confusing or conflating the spiritual with government and politics has been proven wrong in the Bible since the Israelites picked Saul to be their King! I absolutely do not agree with your presumptuous interpretation of Romans 12 & 13. Please provide some more info when you can. TY.

Maybe. I choose my phrasing on my own, as I'm sure you do. I just don't spend much time on style. I prefer discussing content. TY.

TMVP....... I commend the greasespotters who actually spent their time reading and attempting to make sense of your overwhelmingly lengthy, verbose, posts throughout this thread which you started. I also commend them for taking the time to respond. I have not read much of anything you post. Why? Because I find everything you post to be offensive to genuine Christianity. It appears to me that EVERYTHING you meander on about is some form of the same irresponsible garbage theology Wierwille preached. Only difference is, you think that somehow, your take on that same old plagiarized mish-mash from 60 years ago is revelatory in some cryptic way. For me, your posts have no point and make no point. Like the OP of this thread for example. I was completely gone from everything after the first 2 paragraphs, and never read one more word of any of your posts on this thread, because I don't really crave headaches and nausea. I just want anted to let you know that I'll never read or comment any anything you post ever again. Thank you much.

"Very easy Mr. Geiger. Romans 13:1-7 is Pauline "revelation", most of which is not "godbreathed", and it preaches a different Christianity than its Founder, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Chew on that for awhile, remembering from whom you adopted ultradispensationalism as your underlying presumption of privately interpreting The Bible, IMO. TY." "Well, you're obviously going to get a variety of very opinionated responses to this, Tom. And I can't say that I'm surprised that the first batch of these want you to toss out these verses, as though they should never have been written (much less ever have been canonized and be a part of the Bible.) Still, I think it's a fair question that's merits a lot more than that kind of brush off and tossing aside.".... OK TLC.....I'll bite. Firstly, I never wrote nor implied that the Pauline letters "should never have been written". Those are your words. They are complete misrepresentation of what I wrote. Classic example of the straw man logical fallacy if there ever was one. Nice try....... Several questions: 1) Who actually wrote the letters attributed to Saul of Tarsus? 2) Who determined which ones were "godbreathed" enough to be considered The Word of God? 3) Who decided to canonize the Pauline letters to specific churches and/ or individuals? Who, where, and when determined that these letters were to be taken as The Word of God as much as what Jesus spoke and demonstrated? 4) when were the Pauline letters written? 5) Were the Pauline letters written before the 4 canonized gospels? 6) Do the Canonized Pauline letters contain the interpretation or "revelation" of something Jesus Christ did not know? Are THEY the source of ultradispensationalism? TY for taking the time to consider my questions. I look forward to your replies.

Very easy Mr. Geiger. Romans 13:1-7 is Pauline "revelation", most of which is not "godbreathed", and it preaches a different Christianity than its Founder, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Chew on that for awhile, remembering from whom you adopted ultradispensationalism as your underlying presumption of privately interpreting The Bible, IMO. TY.

Hi Fellow Greasespotters! I think the Schoenheit/Gallagher cult in Indiana is often overlooked in the exposure of the crooked TWIt offshoots and ripoffs. So, I decided to try posting under the "Discussion" portion of their YouTube channel, stfonline. It immediately refused to accept my post for some cryptic YouTube reason. But, I copied it before I left and submit it here for your review and critique of the latest from Professor Ludwig Von Schoenheit and Dandy Dan Gallagheer. There's even some teaching by "Rev." Franklin Smith for you old 5th corpse fans! Most likely, the post will never see the light of day, and will be completely ignored by STFI. That's why i thought I'd post them here before I get banned over there. Have fun. "Please, if you might, enlighten me on the following; 1) How does your version of ultradispensationalism differ from Schofield, E.W. Bullinger, Charles Welch, and victor paul wierwille? 2) Does your translation of "oikonomia" come from the same sources as victor paul wierwille and walter j. cummins do? 3) Does your Ministry accept The Prophetic Movement doctrine and practice of "personal prophecy", as do the followers of Florida International, and other Prophetic Movement leaders? 4) Does your Ministry still promote Dan Tocchini's Momentus or VisionQuest seminars as legitimate Christian psychology or therapeutic counseling? 5) Where does your Ministry stand regarding the recent "Religious Freedom Restoration" bills enacted by the Governors and State Legislatures in NC & MS? Are they the same as the one rescinded by your state legislature in Indiana, after your Govenor, Mike Pence surreptitiously snuck it through the IN Legislature? 6) What is your Ministry's position on The Gay Marriage decision by SCOTUS? 7) What is your position on "The Citizen's United" ruling of the SCOTUS? 8) What is your position on the SCOTUS removal of Section V of the 1965 Voting Rights Act? I ask these questions because your teachings and writings seem to offer the clearest and most extensive collection of teachings and seminars explaining your positions on the above questions of accurate Christian Doctrine and Practice, in the teachings I have listened to and watched. This includes your periodical, "The Sower". Is this periodical in any way related to S.O.W.E.R.S., a Way International offshoot in MS? Do they subscribe or ascribe to your STFI doctrines and teachings? Is the background of your Ministry inclusive of experience with The Way International, the fundamentalist right wing cult in Ohio where Mr. Schoenheit studied and was a part of their Research Department? Thank you for your time in reading and answering my honest questions. It is greatly appreciated. God bless you all!"

Excellent discussion Rocky< Skyrider, TLC, and all. TY all. my 10 1/2 cents follow....... First.....Submission. Skyrider, I think you were spot on regarding submission being required in order to make the same decision to acquiesce to the increasingly self-serving demands of the Board of Terrorists (hereinafter referred to as the BOT) despite intuitive "gut feelings" telling us to get the hell outta there. However, submission is only one part of a 2-part equation. And, it is required in what turns out to be a social and interpersonal contract between minister and congregation, on the part of that congregation ( WOWS, corpses, staff, etc.)......the minister's part of that equation, IMO, is OPPRESSION. In order for us loyal and faithful congregants to continue to remain an integral part of what we believed to be a God-given calling, we made the free will decision to acquiesce (submit) to the continueingly intrusive and oppressive demands made by da forehead and the BOT in order to try to reform or at least bring it back to before the dancing prez began his self-deluded, paranoiac narcissistic destruction of not only the way, but its most loyal followers as well. He remains deluded and unrepentant to this day as do Rivenbark and Lombardi. Second: The Way Tree.........At the very first niteowl in my first month in-rez, September, 1973, in the BRC after a Sunday Night Fellowship, in our PJs. It was the first night that he had a couple of Drambuie coffee cups too many and was contentedly praising himself in good humor. He began talking about what inspired ("in-spirit-action") his "revelation" of The Way Tree, which was the book by Alcoholics Anonymous which accompanied their book, "The Twelve Steps"...."The 12 Traditions" which lays out the structure and polity for every AA group. It was published in 1936 IIRC.....a year or more after "The 12 Steps". One of the first 5 includes the exact phrase, ".......self-governing, self-supporting, and self-propagating.....". This, said dictor paul, sparked the "revelation of The Way Tree, BUT.....UNLIKE TLC's claim that it was modeled after The Book of Acts, it was modeled after the Gospels and several of those "red-letter" verses that we weren't to ever think were TO US.....i.e., ultradispensationalism is the underlying presumed "rightly divided understanding" of such verses a la Ethelbert. It was based on the parables of the good tree and bad tree producing its corresponding fruit, and that the fruit would be the means "by which ye shall know them......ye shall know them by their fruit"), and the parable of the vines and branches. The total transition to Ethelbert's series of teachings and his margin notes throughout the Book of Acts, in his Companion Bible, which include THE EIGHT GREAT STATEMENTS, was an integral part of da forehead's corpse graduation research project. The 2nd corpse graduated in August, 1973. Townsend taped The Way Tree class in 1972, the year of the great TWIt putsch which dissolved The Way West and The Way East into the infected bowels of wierwilleism. The grand shift to ultradispensationalism along with the Book of Acts becoming the god-breathed model for The Way Tree "revelation", and the elevation of all things Pauline climaxing with Ephesians as the end all and be all of Christian Faith, was accomplished by da forehead and falter cummins, who was da forehead's research advisor. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with dictor's "original revelation" nor scriptural back-up regarding The Way Tree. Third: "And read what? TWI's material? You bumped your head if you think that. It was to read the Pauline epistles. But how many people do you think actually did that? None, that I knew or ever heard of.." The emphasis on the Pauline Epistles, IMO, IS NOT what dictor refers to when he exhorts all piffle students to put aside all other reading materials besides "The Word" for three months and note the tremendous changes that will occur as a result of "understanding and applying the rightly-divided word of God". He is referring to the entire KJV, Old and New Testaments. TLC, I strongly disagree with your opinion regarding that piffle statement to mean the Pauline Epistles, nor do I agree with the ultradispensationalist misinterpretation of Bullinger and Welch which must be presumed in order for any TWIt theology to "fit like a hand in a glove". I believe their interpretation of the Pauline writings is both misguided and misleading. The writings of Bullinger and Welch provide the ENTIRE basis of all TWIt theology, which i believe to be as misleading and misguided as ultradispensationalism. The ONLY "original research" into the Pauline New Testament, including falter's time at The Institute of New Testament Research during that year he spent Germany, is textually unproveable or nonexistent. It was all to prove whatever dictor told falter gawd told him directly what a verse "literally" said or meant and that "there has to be a text somewhere that has it right". Your job is to find eet! Thanks for reading. I look forward to continued discussion of an interesting topic and thread...............peace.

Totally plagiarized from Ethelbert and Welch! Done in the 60's.

LOL T-bone! When I was given access to dictor's personal research library (which was in large wall safe in his office) by Donna Randall during my 2 years in-rez, One of the many things I found were 2 pamphlets written by Rosalind Rinker with her picture in B&W on the covers. One was entitled "Power For Abundant Living", and the other, "The Word of God Is the Will of God". Sound familiar??? The "forgiveness" dictor had to beg for was because of his sexual affair with Rinker, which is why she left Dodge. But, the year after she left, dictor hired another pianist to play for the Youth Chimes Caravan and be its Sectetary. Her name was Rhoda Becker. So, of course dictor was busy bangin' her before he had the UCC hire her as HIS fulltime Church Sectetary. Before they moved back to the family farm, he married little Rhoda the Mennonite off to his own brother, Reuben. Both were on twit staff until they died. They had one son, Bob Ed Weiwille who was "Assistant General Manager of The Way" under Howard Allen. Bob Ed married Gene and Donna Randall's daughter, Vicki. At the first Corpse Placement/Leadership meeting after his surgery in winter, 1982, dictor passed the old "stink-eye" around the tables for us all to worship. He said the reason he waited until after the 40th Anniversary coronation and installation of da forehead as prez, was because in the Aaronic Priesthood, open only to direct blood descendants of Aaron from the tribe of Levi, men with physical deformities were prohibited from the Priesthood. Vic believed that the removal of his cancerous eye (ocular melanoma) was a physical deformity which would have disqualified him from installing the Okie doofus and passing him the Meshuggene mantle. So, he did not want to "disgrace" gawd and da forehead with a physical deformity, and therefore waited until December to let Fritz and his team take out the eye. However, the eye was removed AFTER metastatic disease had slowly spread to lungs, brain, and liver. The official cause of death was, "Occular melanoma with metastatic liver disease". That's what's on the death certificate.

Hey Sudo! Great to see you! You old wanker you! Thanks for contributing bro! Hope all is well with you! Peace.

Sorry.....it's been awhile since I've looked at this thread. Briefly reviewing, Twinky's posts on the mission of being an ambassador for Christ containing the potential inclusion of the 5 ministries was interesting to me. Certainly a possibility. Also, her references to The Blue Letter Bible well represent the traditional thinking regarding the literal meaning of apostolos in the Greek New Testament. However, all of the discussion must of necessity, be confined to the Pauline Epistles since they are the only sections of the Bible that contain references to these "gifts" to and for the Saints, as Krys pointed out and TLC expanded upon. That's the main reason I have not had much to say. I have already stated that I do not regard all Pauline writings as either godbreathed nor as being the "apex of all revelation" to the Church of The Body of Christ. And, there have been volumes and volumes written about Paul's gift ministry paradigm, which, IMO, have co-opted and "set in stone" the basic understandings of these ministries (ways of serving) among the large majority of the established and mainstream denominational churches, as well as the smaller Pentecostal, Full Gospel, or independent mega ministries like Robertson, Baker, Roberts, and Graham had. It has become necessary to define and pidgeon-hole these ministries so these churches and associations etc., have something from the Bible to justify their very existence. They have to have their own brand, but they all need to establish why Christians should be paying THEM for their buildings, priests, ministers, elders, deacons, presbyters, overseers, pastors, seminaries, and all the incredible expenses that come along with all their properties, structures, and doctrines, and polities. So, the best legitimization tool they have are the Epistles attributed to Saul of Tarsus. So, necessity being the mother of invention, the Pauline letters to specific, individual churches or people must be broadened to apply to all Christians and Christian churches. I believe THAT to be a major fallacy among the entire Church. I believe that specific revelation at specific times to specific churches and/or individuals cannot and must not be broadened to apply to all Christians, nor the Church as a whole. Why would letters written to such specific places and people by anyone be given the status of godbreathed or revelation? Because necessity is the mother of invention. All the early church knew about structure and polity and governance was the worship and service of the Aaronic priests and the other Levites in the Tabernacle and then The Temple in Jerusalem. So, properties, buildings, "employees" and "ministers" were not new to the Hebrews who were the very first converts to this new covenant. Christianity is an offshoot of of The religion of the Hebrews, Judaism. It's spiritual and doctrinal roots lie completely within Judaism. Jesus was a Jew! So were the Twelve, Paul, Barnabas. The new Jesus movement was Hebraic in culture, thought, and religion. That's the true underpinning of every Christian church building, service, and theology, IMO. It is also historical fact. So.....what's my opinion? The gifts are to and for the Church, not the individual. I do not feel that is something additional to the new birth, indwelling of the incorruptible seed, Holy Spirit. I believe they are effected by and "sent by" the Ascended Jesus Christ at His discretion. Holy Spirit provides the vehicle for Christ to do so and be wherever He wants, Whenever He wants to be the Head of His Church. He is not limited nor is Holy Spirit. I believe He can provide whatever is necessary to shepherd and feed His flock for they hear His voice. He is the source of "revelation" to and in the Church, not the Father. He alone is The Boss, Il capo di capi tutti, The King, The Lord, the Head of His Church. He is the mediator between God and man, and the Intercessor for all the saints from the right hand of God's throne, not the Pope's Chair, or Canterbury's Archbishop, etc. There's only one Boss of all bosses to the Church and that's the man Christ Jesus. He IS The Word made flesh. He IS the full reflection of the nature, glory, and perfection of God for all time. HE can do anything and everything necessary to take care of His Body regardless of who's believing or not believing. I trust The Boss to take care of His family and the family business. He is NOT at the mercy of my belief or unbelief. He is NOT absent, stuck at the right hand of God until we're all done amassing all the rewards we can trying to do His job. If he wants to talk to a squirrel (Ham) or a dolphin or a chimp he can. If He wants to talk to you, He can. If he wants to energize miracles and healings, He can. If He needs an Apostle, he'll send one. If he needs prophets He'll send some. You won't need "definitions" to recognize these folks because you shall know them by the fruit of the Spirit they produce in their service. A bad tree cannot yield good fruit and a good tree cannot yield bad fruit. He is the vine and we are the branches. He don't need no stinkin' Way tree or clergy badges (name tags and titles). He does not need help "moving" His Word. He IS the Word. He has his own hands and feet and does not need our's to do His work for Him or take His place. That's blasphemous. We need Him. We can trust Him. And, best of all we have Him and He has us. We don't need no stinkin' clergy unless He says we do. And if we do, The Boss will send them. That's my 2 cents of preaching for this Easter Sunday. Thanks for reading! I look forward to your insights and opinions...........peace.

Very good point, Waysider. None of vic'n'twit theology or eschatology works outside of ultradispensationalism. That's what makesit all fit like a hand in the oven.

OBVIOUSLY!

Hi fellow greasespotters! I have been reading with interest the posts on this thread. Many excellent insights and points indicating a diversity of thinking. That freedom to view the Bible as one source of information on the nature of God and Man and examine "it is written" with objective critical thinking and reasonable logic, leads, IMO, to a broader, increased understanding of what the crux of the matter is all about, again IMO, which is: What is the RELATIONSHIP God wants with Humankind? Is there a God Who wants to have relationships with humans? Do humans need or want a relationship with God, or a god, or gods? What is the means and basis of a relationship with God? What are the benefits of humans having a relationship with their God or gods? How is my God identified and how does She/He make her/himself known? Is such relationship available and/or necessary to ALL humans? As WordWolf did above, I now offer my 2 cents regarding the topic of this thread. IMO, vic "wrote" JCING as a pugnacious and unnecessary attack against the large and historically established Christian denominational Churches, particularly with a JBS hatred for the Roman Catholic and Jewish religions, but inclusive off all those "so-called" Christians, as he phrased it, whose denominations were run by "seed-boys" who were direct servants of Satan, who, in the paranoid narcissistic pathology vic lived in, was THE AUTHOR of that "damnable lie" he called The Trinity. He did so because he needed to manufacture a need for his bible products and trinkets among the huge customer base he wanted increased marketshare of, namely the rest of "organized Christianity". That meant he had to come up with a unique product and a unique platform from which to sell it. He chose THE one doctrine common to the vast majority of his competitors and their financial supporters, The Trinity. OOOHHHHHHH! Where angels and wisemen fear to tread! But not that fearless Aryan Supremacist dictor. He wanted those coffers for himself, but he had NOTHING but a bunch of spurious "definitions" from B.G. Leonard and great stuff from Bullinger that poor little dictor's alcohol infused mini-intellect never fully grasped, but fully misinterpreted to suit his purposes for his flagship product, pfal. Ladies and gentlemen! "It slices, it dices, it hacks the Bible to pieces! Ronco's biblical research, teaching and fellowship 'minus-try"! But it keeps those checks and blue forms rolling in! I was in-rez at HQ in 1973-74 in the corpse. That's when the twit "research dept." which consisted of dictor, Falter Cummins, Donna Randall, Bernita Jess and one or two corps grads along with the entire in-rez corpse which consisted of about 100 people. There were numerous JCING research nights, all-day voluntary meetings with the research staff and editorial "staff", to "work da woid" on the subject in order to get the book out. The overall attitude pervading all of this was dictor's rabid JBS hatred for the Catholics and Jews, and his palpable ENVY of their MONEY! The Satan/Seedboy connection provided the villains. He had created his own little fictional playground of the Passion Play complete with the enemies and heroes characters necessary to a hit play. It was his version of "Lord of the Rings" and "Star Wars" and "Guardians of The Galaxy" all rolled into one BRC feature. And of course, ONLY HE had the keys to the kingdoms. dictor had no intellectual capacity to understand Bullinger. He just took what he wanted and changed what he didn't like saying, "Bullinger WOULD have surely come to the same conclusions" dictor himself had come to. SURELY! It took Donna Randall,Peter J. Wade, and Cummins to explain Bullinger to dictor, and then make sense out of dictor's alcohol-infused rants, which were taped and transcribed. Dictor never actually WROTE much at all. All his "original writings" were teaching tapes, transcribed by Donna Randall and edited by his daughter, Karen. Then embellished and fleshed out by PJ Wade, Cummins, and Randall. Wierwille reads THEIR work and puts his name on it and they all feel so proud that dictor "used" their work and approved it by signing it as his own. NO ONE WHO EVER WORKED AT TWIT'S RESEARCH DEPT. WILL DENY THAT THE PROCESS I DESCRIBED ABOVE IS HOW JCING WAS "WRITTEN". NO ONE WHO WAS EVER THERE FOR ANY "BOOKS" OF VIC CAN HONESTLY DISPUTE MY ACCOUNT. As a matter of fact, there are numerous former research staffers out there who will confirm and elaborate upon what i have said here. Some post here! The word on JCING starting hitting the streets right after that 1970 twit summer school. It was all over twit fellowships by 1971, and dictor's trial balloon in 1970 was finding enthusiastic acceptance throughout the now booming fellowships around the US. With a perfect audience too.......disgruntled and disgusted old-time denominational misfits along with the huge surge of hippies just itching for a just cause to enlighten and change the world with, all found common ground in vic's new movie! Dictor thought, "By jove! I think I've gawt eet!". The $ and numbers started rolling in. This new upstart cult had grabbed a hold of something that galvanized the organized mob that twit turned into. Dictor and TWIt thrived on the controversy, in exactly the same manner in which The Trumpstah is thriving in today's political zoo, so he, like Trump, wratcheted up the pugnacious and contemptuous rhetoric earning the status of anti-semitic and dangerous fundamentalist cult from the ADL and the B'NAI B'RITH in 1982, along with becoming one of the most despised cults among the "anti-cult" communities springing up around America in the 1970's. So, with his coffers full of money taken from "Seedboys", and a bellyful of Seagram's and Drambuie, dictor went on his abundant living spree from 1976 until the day he died. Taking the place of the absent christ Who Is THE WORD, replacing it with the word-o-vic-is-the-will-o-vic. Buying multi-million dollar properties and spending millions more "bringing them up to gawd's standards". Motorcoaches, limousines, motorcycles, custom-tailored suits, airplanes, big bucks vacations and twustee hunting and fishing expeditions all over the US and Canada. Drinking and sexually molesting hundreds of innocents until the day he died in May,1985. Rotting from the inside out and buried in his idolatrous watery grave for all to barf on. My personal take on the Trinity? Honestly? Who gives a dang? I sure don't as a Christian by personal choice. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christian Salvation. Nothing! It is completely non-salvific. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in the type of relationship Jesus Christ or His Father encourages and fosters with ANY human being. It is a superfluous man-made philosophy concerning the nature of God, and attempting to explain that nature. It's as made up as dictor's books, and carries the same weight intellectually IMO. Hardly any layperson in any church knows what it's supposed to mean, and they really could care less. All it is and ever was, is a clever little device invented to garner and expand the political and economic power of a small group of Roman elitists and imperial landowners who were running scared because of the Huns, Goths, Visigoths, Saxon and Norman hordes that were gobbling up the remnants of their crumbling Roman Empire. So, they morphed into The Holy Roman Empire, and continued their land and money grabs until the 7th and 8th centuries, when they eventually destroyed themselves with their Crusades to recapture the "Holy Lands" they lost to Islam and all them Goths.......lol. They used the Trinity in much the same way dictor tried to use JCING. It took quite a bit longer for them to be reduced to one city in Italy than it did for dictor to devour his own cult in less than 20 years. If one starts with a premise which determines that there is a God, Creator, Universal Life Force, which desires and makes available to humans, a substantive, positive, and beneficent relationship with HER/HIM/IT, then one must ask, "Why would that god or goddess want to exclusivise such a beneficial and perhaps necessary relationship with 7 billion human beings and billions of other living creatures on the planet Earth?" IMO, that would be quite "un-Godlike". It seems to me that such a benevolent being would want that benevolence for all living creatures and not just some based on some secret code, or iconoclastic religion. That's why i identify myself as a "Christian by personal choice". I do not believe that Jesus Christ, as I accept him, is indeed, the ONLY "way, the truth, and the life" to or concerning an omnipotent God, or having a "relationship" with HER/HIM/IT. I see my God as able to reach and accept ANY human being who desires to experience and live the "fruit of the Spirit" as listed in Galatians 5:22,23. "AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW", and when one reads those verses in any bible version one can surely see why no "law" against them exists. Therefore, why would anyone want to bar anyone else from such a relationship with that omnipotent, benevolent Being? Why would any human being discount, discredit, despise, or restrict such fruit from anyone else? Only for personal social, political, or economic gain, greed, and envy.....none of which are "fruit" of the Spirit. They are the fruit of corrupted human nature. To me, the complete irrelevance and immateriality of "The Trinity" in having a real relationship with your god is outrageously obvious. One need not wonder any longer why it is, that religion OF ANY BRAND has ignited more wars and taken more human life than any other single "thing" in human history. It is as outrageously obvious as the Trinity being completely irrelevant to a relationship with God. God has not locked herself in a box and given the key to ANY one religion or spiritual belief. She has made Herself open to all human beings everywhere, at any time, in any manner necessary, in order for us ALL to be busy producing and "feeding on" the "fruit of the Spirit". She is able and willing to communicate Herself to humans in whatever idiosyncratic method might be necessary to reach each and every one of us any time we're looking for that fruit. That bowl of fruit lies on everyone's table, and when hungry enough by personal choice, it's like Elijah's cruse of oil.........never-ending light.....................peace.

Great to hear that Pawtucket. You and Raf keep up the good work! Love ya man!

Oh wow! Thanks for telling me CD. Checked @Bry@nMi++ler. All his followers are the kids of twits I remember from back in the day.....linder, kish, chavoustie. Can I write him if TWIt blocked me? I saw all my tweets on his page.........I know both his father, Roger who was a twustees, and his brother Arick who was banned from Howard Walker's Way Corpse FB page for being an atheist! Shows how great that page is! Can I write anyone at Twitter or are all those followers of Twi blocking me too?

i thought you're supposed to do that on twitter?! shows ya how tech-yarded i am!

I tried to Raf, but all i see after i type is my own home page. there's no where i see replies or if it got to you at twitter. very confusing over there right now for me.........LOL!

i have no clue how Twitter works.....obviously. I thought, that my tweets to them would show up right underneath their's on the public main page. Guess i was wrong about that! i did not know blocking happens on twitter too, or i never would have bothered.

OK Raf. Thanks for the warning. I joined Twitter today so i could tweet to the TWI page that CD started this thread with. I'm already blocked from there within an hour after my first Tweet. Just hope it does"t happen to me here. Thanks for your work here. I know it's completely voluntary and I appreciate it.

Thanks for doing all this Raf! You da bomb!