vermontlaw

I have debated within myself for some time -- even before this thread -- whether to ask if anyone else was present and remembers this. It has been thirty years and it still bothers me. I am almost 100% positive that it was at the advanced class being taught at Ohio University. VP decided to hold a "family only" meeting to discuss the Jonestown situation. Eveyone's ID was checked to make certain it was only us (just to heighten the drama, I'm sure.) Then VP brings out a believer who had been in the military when Jonestown occurred (NOT John Somerville -- this man was just a private in the army.) The man told us that there was all sorts of secrecy involved in bringing back the bodies. All of his "testimony" to us was hearsay from other guys in the military. Young as I was I remember thinking, "Oh yeah, of course that is reliable because soldiers never pass around rumors to each other." VP went on about how it was all the CIA (as I recall.) I remember sitting there looking at the rapt faces of the people around me as they listened to him and wondered what was wrong with me that I was thinking how bizarre all of this was. I know it doesn't sound very dramatic as I retell it. I find it hard to convey how surreal it all was. Anyone else recall this?

Way back in the early 1970's, when I was very new to TWI, I brought a person to a meeting in Cleveland. This young man was a christian but very suspicious of TWI and VERY skeptical, even hostile, about speaking in tongues. This young man had been told that it was possible to curse god when speaking in tongues (I know -- we all have heard that one.) However, when someone spoke in tongues and interpreted, the young man I brought looked astonished. He told me that the person speaking in tongues had spoken "northern baltic Russian" and that the interpretation was essentially the gist of what had been said. The young man I brought did come from an "ethnic" family. Given the circumstances, I had no reason to think that he had made this up. Over the years I have thought about this on occasion -- and wondered -- maybe there is a god. I don't know anymore. Vermontlaw

I don't know if John still does the Bible Lands tours -- I went way back in the early 1980's. If he still is I am certain that they are good. Even when I went he knew about places and people who were off the beaten path. And I respect how he stood up to VPW. But I have to admit that I find his support for John Hagee Ministries extremely distasteful. I am very supportive of Israel and find it infuriating how the Middle East situation is portrayed in the media. But John Hagee is off the wall.

Jim, I just found an article that John wrote recently for the Fresno newspapers (and there is some information about John at the bottom.) The link is http://www.fresnobee.com/283/story/489468.html. If that doesn't work, I found it googling John T. Somerville. Some of the views surprised me -- some did not. Diane

Jim, There was some discussion a short time ago (within the last few months) regarding John's relationship with VPW. I think it might be in the LEAD accident thread. I hope John is doing well. I tried goggling a few months ago and didn't turn up anything so I'm glad you let us know what he is doing. I would think that he is retired now from the military. Diane

Your memories are correct. John started Total Fitness Institute and ran it from his ranch in North Fork, CA (although we also went camping in the mountains.) It was designed to be akin to Outward Bound. I went through the training in 1976, and found most of it to be a very positive experience (although frankly, I did not enjoy listening to the PFAL class AGAIN even if it was in the great outdoors.) I believe that John and VPW did not agree on some things and VPW refused to send the Corp there, and I think that John was depending on that money. Not that John was perfect either. (One of the program assistants was a womanizer and John wanted to fire him at one point when he found out because a member of the Corp complained about what this guy did to her Corp sister. John's wife, Mary, interceded and the guy stayed a while longer -- which I can tell you from personal experience, was unfortunate. On the other hand, when you put together a bunch of young men and young women, things are going to happen. What is important is how you deal with the situation.) But, overall, it was a good program and it is unfortunate that it did not continue. John also ran some Bible Land Tours in which I also participated and found them to be a great experience. Diane

I dunno, Bramble. Why don't you give it a try and see how he reacts? (Just kidding.)

She really did not approve of women working or being too well educated. I will confess that some of the advice is not bad. I do respect women who (quite rightly) view homemaking as a career and take pride in doing it well ala a virtuous woman. But, come one -- dress up in "little girl clothes"?!!!! Also, stamp your feet and call him "a big brute." Although, I guess if it works.... But, it was really pushed on us at the time. "This is how a real woman behaves!" Given that I was attending college, it really grated on me. By the way, Waysider, did you ever read the male counterpart -- because I never really heard that much about it.

Yes, "Fascinating Womanhood" was around in the early- to mid-1970's. It was for married women. The author had a version for single women ("Fasinating Girl" I believe) I read both. Even for the times, it was extreme. For example, if woman goes to college at all (which is a negative) she should only get a liberal arts degree -- she does not want to have more education than her husband. Besides, she should not work out side the home under any circumstances so a college education is a waste. If money is a problem little lady -- you just do a better job with that budget. What was really creepy is that it recommended that women check out the kinds of clothes little girls wear and duplicate them. "Your husband might want you only to wear them at home, but he will love them." As for fascinating girls, we should appeal to a man's sense of masculinity by doing such things as dressing up in a frilly outfit with dainty shoes, even if we are going hiking. That way, we will have to appeal to him to help us, and he will so enjoy the sense of masculinity, he won't be able to get us out of his mind. (By the way, when he comes courting, make sure to put a soft pink light bulb in the lamp because it is extra flattering.) Oh yes, and don't even think about sex before marriage -- he is just testing you. She then recounts as proof the fictional story of Dorian Grey who persuades his fiance to sleep with him. The next morning he tells her he is very disappointed and won't marry her now. The "poor girl" drowns herself. I believe the male counterpart was something along the lines of "The man of velvet and steel" or "The steel hand in the velvet glove."

I just found this website several days ago and have been catching up. I was in The Way back in 1970 until 1980ish. Yes, VPW insisted that the Holocaust did not happen. I believe another book that was sold in the bookstore was "The Thirteenth Tribe" (in addition to The Myth of the Six Million.) It was one of the many reasons I wanted to leave and eventually did. VPW was anti-semitic. I also think he could not accept that the German people had done this -- if you recall, he was very proud of his German ancestry. I was appalled that these books were sold. My brother -- still a VPW worshipper -- was convinced and also justified the books as, "This is another viewpoint that doesn't get presented in the mainstream. We just want to make it available to you."