penworks

On the eve of this momentous election day, I am having flashbacks to life in a cult that demanded loyalty to one man's perverted view of the world. After 17 years in it, I finally woke up and figured out a way to escape. My memoir of that experience is still on special sale for only $17 until Dec. 31, 2020. It includes some real names of leaders many of you knew, especially around the time of the Passing of the Patriarch in 1986. As a member of the biblical research team at that time, I witnessed what got swept under the carpet. For an insider's story of how a person is slowly pulled into a damaging world view without realizing it, give the book Undertow a chance. Visit https://charleneedge.com/undertow-on-sale-signed-copies/ I want to thank so many of you Greasespotters for having supported Undertow by reading it and sharing it. This month, we celebrate its 4th birthday! Cheers. Stay safe and carry on!

Hi Grease spotters, Happy to say I can offer, while supplies last, signed copies of Undertow at a student discount of $17.00. Read more here. Stay well. Wear masks. And may your tribe increase! Charlene

I think we all know that my idea is a dream, for now. Donna is in the hot seat. But she'll do what Rosalie says. I knew them back in the day. Sigh ... I remember Donna in the olden days, when she was a "secretary" on staff, and I was in my second year of the Corps. She was totally loyal even then. And then went in the 4th Corps. For many early Corps, the loyalty was planted so deeply they'll never root it out of themselves. I don't really have much hope for The Way going bye bye any time soon, at least in name. Added note: by "loyalty" in her case, I mean sticking with VPW's legacy no matter what.

Beguiled, I hope you find comfort here amongst many of us who know and understand the truth of what you're saying. Thank you for trusting the goodwill of GSC folks to open your heart like you did. It grieves me to learn what happened to you. And saddens me that your family rejects you to cling to TWI. Empathy is not the easiest thing to convey in an online post, but you can be sure you have it coming from me. Wishing you the best with your new child and creating a life of love and joy!

As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opinion, but since The Way's "bedrock of biblical research" has been found to be full of holes, plagiarism, and Scriptural abuse, doesn't that sinking ship make the organization of The Way without a purpose? If I were Vern, as far as the organization goes, I'd disband it.

Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991. In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.

This situation is beyond terrible. Shame on the silent ones who fail to warn about any abusive Way offshoots like that one was. In 2016 I wrote a blog about Barnard's arrest. Recently I updated that blog to honor Jess. https://charleneedge.com/update-rape-victims-demolish-cult-of-way-corps-graduate-victor-barnard/

Hi, Skyrider. I appreciate the kind words and best to you and yours, as well. A big thank you to readers of Undertow. Many thanks for taking time to do it! And thanks to Pawtucket for keeping GSC open all these years … Cheers.

Yup, the millet is long gone, but the gut reaction lingers. Ugh. In case you don't know, that's an analogy for the "Word" that VPW fed us, amounting to a con of Himalayan proportions. And I should know. I've actually been to the Himalayan mountains … in May 2009. Socks, eye-witnesses willing to give their two cents are few and far between. I get "fan mail" through the Contact page on my website from former Wayfers either defending VPW and "shame on me," or from some too afraid to speak up or out due to relatives still in TWI or due to their own weariness … which I totally understand. Who wants to put themselves out there for criticism and hate mail, which I get now and then. But I knew that going into what I did ... publishing my story in a book. Wake up people, Wierwille set this whole thing in motion from day one. It was never "pure" but got corrupted later on. He was out to set himself up as "the answer man." PLEEEAASE. Sigh.

I agree with Socks regarding this, as I was an eye-witness, like Socks, to the manner in which VPW conducted himself and ran the organization: " … I don't subscribe to the theory that "the Way was fine until Martindale/Geer/Finnegan/Whoever screwed everything up".......His main guys all learned from him and acted in complete alignment with his wishes."

I can't imagine anyone listening to hours of tapes to find it tucked in a teaching. I have no audiotapes of VPW. Does anyone here have tapes and time to find the snow story?

Just to be clear, I am looking for a TAPED account of his telling this story. With his voice recorded doing it. I have the book, TWLIL, which has it in print. I'm pretty sure he told the story in the PFAL foundational class, but I haven't found it available anywhere. Thanks!

Oldiesman, you're welcome!

Raf, (or anyone here) do you have any tapes of VPW teaching/talking on which he talks about his audible revelation from God, the one that includes the snow as a sign? I would really like to find a recording of him describing it. Thanks. I can be contacted at https://charleneedge.com/contact

Welcome, Zanezim, I hope you find some good virtual camaraderie here. I did. I spent 17 years in TWI (1970-1987) and the lovely, non-manipulative people I met but don't see anymore is what I miss most about that time. Over the years, though, I've made new friends whose love is not dependent upon whether I am like-minded with them about the Bible. Relief! Cheers and happy holiday season to you and to everyone here at GSC. Penworks

Hi, this is Charlene Edge who wrote Undertow. Yes, it is true that I included some information on this topic in my book. For a first-hand account from one of VPW's "girls," I always refer people to Kristen Skedgell's memoir, Losing The Way. Also, other women spoke out in another book, by Karl Kahler, called The Cult that Snapped: A Journey Inside The Way International.

Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!) by Hector Avalos, PhD. Prometheus Books. 2007. Just sayin … there is an alternative viewpoint for those interested in questioning the value of continuing to hammer away at biblical texts in hopes of recreating "the original." Even if we did reach that goal, what would we have? A text that still contains contradictions (four different viewpoints in the 4 gospels), violence against "unbelievers," in the Hebrew Bible, condemnation of homosexuals, subjugation of women, etc. Just sayin … let's take a look at bibliolatry and get honest about that. Perhaps this is a topic for the Doctrinal thread. Sigh …

Raf, when you asked for examples unique to TWI, I thought of the section at the end of Karl Kahler's book, The Cult That Snapped. It begins on page 275. Wayspeak: A Glossary. He has 6 pages full of terms you could check. If you don't have a copy of the book, let me know. An example would be "undershepherding" meaning "following up on witnessing by pastoring a new person." Also "cop-outs" - former members of The Way. Also, here are a few things, some are phrases I think are unique to TWI usage, maybe not … but when I use them when speaking to outsiders about The Way, I find myself having to translate what they mean. 1. advances meant retreats. VPW said we don't retreat from anything, we advance in God's Word. Churches use the word retreat for weekend immersions of fellowship and teachings, but TWI had to be different than churches, even in naming this sort of event. 2. lift - meant offer something or someone in prayer. I remember the first time I heard this it sounded so strange. Lift? 3. witnessing - meant evangelizing, not seeing something happen. 4. off the Word - meant not obeying Way teachings. 5. Karl had this one in his Glossary, too. Wierwille was "our father in the Word" - at least in the Corps, we called him that because we likened him to the apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 4:15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

DWBH wrote: "I’ve never really investigated how the thing was received by the biblical research and textual criticism folks at the academic and university levels. I wonder if anyone outside TWIt or the splinters and offshoots even uses it?? Anyone know?" I recall that the Society of Biblical Literature knew the concordance was published in 1985 because some of the guys on the research team had been attending SBL meetings and talking about it to SBL members over the years. I do not know how it was actually received by those academics, or whether it is used by anyone today, including anyone at TWI HQ or in offshoots. Wish I could be more helpful.

P.S. Rocky posted in the Doctrinal section a link to another video Juedes made about TWI's Aramaic project, which I worked on in part. .

This is Charlene Lamy Edge, author of a memoir about my seventeen years in The Way: Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International. The last part of my book reveals goings-on in the Way’s research department at its Ohio headquarters where I worked from 1984-1986 on what was called Aramaic projects. Rev. Juedes refers to my book in this video. I was involved in Aramaic work at The Way beginning in 1972 when Wierwille assigned me to help the woman he hired to teach Aramaic at Way summer school and to collect Aramaic manuscripts on microfilm. That buying spree was what George Lamsa encouraged Wierwille to do. But Lamsa did not stick around. Wierwille made plans to eventually publish an "Aramaic" concordance, a N.T. interlinear, and a Lexicon. By 1984, I was on the biblical research team at HQ to help finish what was eventually called The Concordance to the P e s h I t t a Version of the Aramaic New Testament. I still have my copy. We had to add the word “Aramaic” to the title because V. P. Wierwille incorrectly and chronically used “Aramaic” to refer to that N. T. version, which, as Juedes says, is from the 5th century. However, it was not in Aramaic, it was in a language called Syriac. But VPW would not be corrected, as I write about in my book. His knowledge of Aramaic and Syriac texts was insufficient to speak knowledgeably about them. The “Aramaic” New Testament that Juedes refers to is an interlinear using the same Syriac text the concordance is tied to, but with the English translation included, and the KJV in a third column. This set of interlinear volumes was published by other Way researchers after I resigned from the research department and left The Way. Just for the record, the final translation that Juedes says appeases Way leaders was not done while I was there. In my view, Juedes makes many good points in this video. But what is missing is insider info, including this: biblical texts were only considered tools by VPW and his trained loyal researchers to determine "the accuracy" of The Word. Greek, Syriac, Hebrew, even Coptic were said to be “compared” to determine “accurate readings.” Although, for the most part we depended on the Greek N.T. for readings. We did NOT say accurate “interpretations,” because Wierwille taught that The Word (the Bible) was of no private interpretation. He got that idea from II Peter 1:21. The problem with using that verse is MAJOR. It does not specify what “Scripture” refers to. It’s vague. It doesn’t list the specific books. Not only that, the author of II Peter is up for debate. To go down that rabbit hole of authorship, refer to any reputable scholar doing historical criticism on the N.T. For starters, I recommend Dr. Bart Ehrman’s work, starting with Misquoting Jesus. https://www.amazon.com/Bart-D-Ehrman/e/B001I9RR7G?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1560098706&sr=8-1 Anyway, to get the accurate reading, we were to use Wierwille’s keys to research to “let the Bible interpret itself.” What a fallacy that was! Books do not interpret themselves. People interpret books. In the end, what was taught as accurate would be determined from VPW’s supposedly great “scope of The Word” which he said he gained from “working” the whole Word [Bible] for years and years and/or from God’s direct revelation. From my experience in research, I came away with realizing that the catch phrase, The Word, referred to whatever VPW decided. After he died, the tangled web of figuring out what he would have wanted and how to rationalize his mistakes and deliberate twisting of Scripture fell to Walt*r Cu*mins, the man in charge of research who I worked for while on the research team in The Way. I go into this in my book, which is available from all major booksellers.

This is Penworks passing along a request for info from the informative and helpful non-profit, the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA). I'm a member. "ICSA director, Debby Schriver, author of Whispering in the Daylight: The Children of Tony Alamo’s Christian Ministry and Their Journey to Freedom, will speak soon to attorneys specializing in law and the elderly. Despite its vast library, ICSA has little written information on how cults affect the elderly. Debby is interested in interviewing individuals who may have personal experience or may know about the experiences of others who were adversely affected by cults when they got older. We hope that her conversations with you may result in an ICSA Today article that could provide up-to-date information on the topic of elderly and cults." If you have information that you believe will be useful to this project, please send it to mail@icsamail.com