penworks

What's the reason for using the incorrect abbreviation, PLAF, for the name of Wierwille's Bible class, which was Power for Abundant Living? (PFAL) Folks who read posts here who were not in The Way find things like that (also things like "Way Corpse" instead of Way Corps) confusing and incomprehensible. Just saying...

One of the best sources I have found on this topic of control is Robert Jay Lifton's little but powerful book: Losing Reality: On cults, cultism, and the mindset of polititcal and religious zealotry "Lifton has spent decades exploring psychological extremism. His pioneering concept of the "Eight Deadly Sins" of ideological totalism--originally devised to identify "brainwashing" (or "thought reform") in political movements--has been widely quoted in writings about cults, and embraced by members and former members of religious cults seeking to undertstand their experiences." When I gave my presentation "A Cult Insider's Story," which was recorded and is on YouTube, I discussed Lifton's work. The guy wearing the red scarf, introduces me:

Charity, to answer your question: "but a child being told he/she must greet "all" older people with a kiss on the lips which then opened a door for being sexual abused is atrocious. Was this expectation for children of the corps?" My answer: I am Charlene Lamy Edge, author of my cult memoir, Undertow. I was in the 2nd Way Corps, 1971-1973, held at Way HQ in Ohio, run by VPW himself, and I escaped HQ in 1987. VPW never forced this kind of kiss on me, although after I left The Way, I learned that he and his brother Harry did that to other women, as recounted by Kristen Skedgell in her memoir, Losing The Way. There was a teaching that referred to a Scripture that said to greet one another with a holy kiss, but in my experience that was a kiss on the cheek. This kiss on the mouth business was NEVER taught to us back then, nor were we told to force our kids to do it! I do not know who originated this practice. I have a child who was born in 1975 when I was a Way leader. She was 12 when we escaped HQ in 1987. Thankfully, she never was subjected to that kind of male behavior in The Way, for which I am eternally grateful, but believe me, I am heartbroken over those innocents who were. I think we know by now here at GSC that Way-promoted practices of all sorts depended on your geographical location in The Way org., who your local leader was, what teachings were circulating (there never was a "quality control" process to monitor in what ways things were taught), the time period during which you were involved in The Way, and your own personal decisions. Like any sensible person hearing this story, I am infuriated by the damage done as described by this woman on the podcast. As awful as it is to hear it, we need it and others like it, to gain understanding and heal.

Another survivor testimony, this one from a 2nd gen. Way org. then offshoot survivor: https://m.soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/mark-avoid-w-em-thomas?ref=clipboard&p=i&c=0&si=10E753EC055A4873A9843355FD563C52

Along these lines, another great read on the topic is Stephen Prothero's book, American Jesus: How the Son of God Became a National Hero. From the description: "Jesus the Black Messiah; Jesus the Jew; Jesus the Hindu sage; Jesus the Haight-Asbury hippie: these Jesuses join the traditional figure of Jesus Christ in American Jesus, which was acclaimed upon publication in hardcover as an altogether fresh exploration of American history--and as the liveliest book about Jesus to appear in English in years."

Along these lines, for a while on my blog I wrote posts in a series called "Fundamentalist Fridays." Here's one about Christian Nationalism, which has become more front-and-center in this country than when I wrote this post in 2017. Enjoy! christian nationalism.pdf

Yes, there was an OED in the research room.

Along these lines, I think of the philosopher Hereclitus saying the only thing for certain is change. Something like that. Speaking of change ... here's a little peek into Way archives: 25th Way Anniversary brochure. Notice the PFAL "endorsement" quotes, especially one by W*alter C*ummins. 1443088419_25thannivTWI.pdf

By the way, one thing I like about The End of Biblical Studies is the well researched information about the many Bible companies, university classes on the Bible, and the tons of Christian churches promoting Bibles that keep the cycle of studying ancient Scriptures going to the exlusion of other writings. I think it's good to read a book before we criticize or discard it. During my post-Way journey, I learned I could actually live a good, ethical, and valualbe life without reading or staying hooked on the Bible. That's just me. I realized VPW had brainwashed me into thinking I could not live without "The Bible," (that term is meaningless because there are so many kinds of versions of Bibles there isn't just one Bible). I found I had been addicted to having a Bible be the centerpiece of my life. I let myself consider the fact that there were millions of good people over centuries and centuries who lived loving and productive lives before there were ever any Bibles in existence. This is not to say there aren't many good and valuable lessons found in Bibles. For myself, I just had to acknowledge what these Bibles were before I attached value to them. Finally, I stepped back and saw that Bibles are anthologies of ancient writings by men, arranged in a certain order, which can vary. So, too, does content of Bibles vary. I asked myself whether they were helpful for me today? In what way are they useful to modern man? Just for the record, here's where I'm "at" these days: Charlene’s Post-Cult Nonreligious Alternative | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)

Love that quote from Alan Watts. His work has meant a lot to me over the years.

Maybe used bookstores have it. I checked Thriftbooks but it's temporarily out. https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-end-of-biblical-studies_hector-avalos/1416702/?resultid=8e764add-041d-40c4-a0e5-ba8d9d9e1ed3#edition=5687681

Sounds like a question for Walt*r Cumm*ns, the one VPW put in charge of "biblical research."

Speaking of cherry picking definitions, what would happen if folks just quit doing "word studies" and let words sit in their own context where you can see how they are used? For those seriously interested in a radical change regarding "biblical studies," one enlightening book is The End of Biblical Studies by Victor Avalos. Give it a try. It shows how Bible companies keep the cycle going, and much more.

Glad to hear Undertow helped you, Logicisgreatstuff. Your generation of Wayfers is near and dear to my heart, since my daughter was 12 years old when we escaped HQ. She reminds me that I said over and over that I wrote Undertow for your generation, since most (certainly not all) in mine were/are too brainwashed to consider reading it. By the way, logic, too, is near and dear to my heart. One of my favorite college courses post-TWI was Symbolic Logic. Cheers!

I remember when that "show" was put on in the WOW auditorium. OMG. We in research were rolling our eyes, or rather puking behind the scenes because we knew the "research" behind it was bogus. So did WJC, but he didn't confront LCM about it, just let it go ... one more nail in the coffin as far as I was concerned. I include details about this in Undertow. It was definitely a turning point. Ugh. Found out later, including in the well researched book,The Cult That Snapped, that there was much "hanky panky" going on with cast members, some strong testimonies in the book regarding LCM and the woman who played "the seed of the serpent." Disgusting and very sad, indeed.

Oldskool, it was complicated. Back in 1971 when I was in summer school at HQ, lots of us went to Adolf's Restaurant on the main drag in N.K. for beer or a sandwich. Adolf waited on us himself and we developed a nice rapor. In a newspaper article in about 1974 or 75 that mainly featured a ROA event, Adolph was interviewed and said some nice things about Way believers. I have that article somewhere buried in a box of stuff I referred to when writing Undertow. Too lazy at the moment to dig it out... Of course, I'm sure Adolph didnt mind the influx of money coming in from Way folks, escpecially during the first ROA in 1971. Later, while in the Corps 1971-1973, we continued to pour our tiny bit of allowance money (we got $20 a month for notepaper, shampoo, etc.) into eating there once in a while, although VPW preferred we "stay on grounds" with "the household of believers." So he started cooking hamburgers on a grill outside his house for us, taking away our excuse for going into town. Anything to keep us from interacting with outsiders who might ask too many questions, although we were supposed to "witness" to them and bring them to Sunday night services. At least once, some rowdies from town raced down Wierwille Rd. in a car and shot a hole in the Welcome sign down at the corner of Highway 29 and Wierwille Rd. It's the odd, round Way sign featured on the cover of The Cult That Snapped by Karl Kahler. So that didn't help relations with the town. But neither did VPW help keep things friendly, because he railed against church ministers there. Flash forward to 1984-1987 when I worked at HQ. Many of us on staff had kids in the public school in N.K., and ironically, some of the town kids were nicer to my daughter, for instance, than Way kids because Way kids put pressure on her to "witness" to the townies and she felt uncomfortable with that. I learned this from her AFTER we escaped. Oh, one more thing. Before the Executive Office Building was built in 1973 or maybe late 1972, while in the Corps, we had to do our laundry off grounds. The closest laundromat was in St. Mary's, so we "interacted" with locals there, but only to "witness to them," at least that was my experience. Not sure what else may have been going on with locals over the years ... That's all that comes to mind, just now.

To keep things interesting on this thread ... here's one of my blog posts at https://charleneedge.com dated: May 10, 2018. It's a letter from a pastor in New Knoxville, OH. Echo in New Knoxville, Ohio: Minister Reads Undertow | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)

Speaking of studying scripture, if you don't know, I was on The Way's biblical research team. That's where I had my realization that VPW's style of research wasn't for me (understatement). Rather than writing more on that here, I invite you to check out my presentation on YouTube. It's the only one of the more than 20 live presentations I gave over recent years about my Way experience. I'm retired from giving talks now. This is my legacy video.

All the best to you, T-Bone! Take good care of yourself and enjoy your life's journey. Cheers, Charlene

Thanks, Chockful. I'm glad to share that interview here. One of my favorite questions from Prof. Moss and my answer: MM: In the last chapter, “Turning the Tide,” you write about the denial of feelings that had become so prevalent in The Way’s teachings. Could you please elaborate on that aspect? CLE: One of Wierwille’s pet phrases was “Feelings come and go, but the Word of God liveth and abideth forever.” What he meant was that we were not to trust our feelings because they change all the time. And because they change, Wierwille told us they were unreliable sources for truth about ourselves. When our feelings contradicted Wierwille, we were trained to reject those feelings. One important example of this from my own life is in Undertow: Even when my gut feelings told me that the man I married had betrayed me and was not good for me, I was supposed to reconcile with him because the Bible said to forgive.

In 2017, I was invited to speak to an American Studies class at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg in Germany. Afterwards, the professor, Dr. Maria Moss (also an editor of their American Studies Journal) asked to do a print interview with me. Here's the two-part result: INTERVIEW American Studies Journal. Institute of English Studies and of the Zentraleinrichtung Moderne Sprachen (ZeMoS) at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg, Germany. Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part I) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org) Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part II) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

Hello, Greasespotters. Looking back on our experiences in TWI, I think many of us can related to the content in the attached FREE article I re-published on my website. It's by Michael Langone who holds a PhD in counseling psychology and is the now-retired executive director of International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), which provides information, education, and help to those adversely affected by or interested in cultic and other “high-control” groups and relationships. In my opinion, this article well describes aspects of cult ensnarement. Are we glad we escaped, one way or another? Enjoy reading the "3-D Cult Experience." 3-D Cult Experience.pdf

I appreciate your kind comments, Rocky. Over the years, I've written about fundamentalism and cults on my blog. Some readers here may be interested in the background of fundamentalism and what makes The Way fundamentalist in its approach to and application of Scripture, so in the attached file, I share what I've learned about that. Stay well everyone! Charlene https://charleneedge.com TWI and fundamentalism.pdf

Hello Greasespotters, If you subscribe to my blog, you may remember a post that covers the behind-the-scenes story of writing Undertow. I thought I'd share that story here. Dear Rachel.pdf

it's all in the attached PDF.