penworks

Sounds like a question for Walt*r Cumm*ns, the one VPW put in charge of "biblical research."

Speaking of cherry picking definitions, what would happen if folks just quit doing "word studies" and let words sit in their own context where you can see how they are used? For those seriously interested in a radical change regarding "biblical studies," one enlightening book is The End of Biblical Studies by Victor Avalos. Give it a try. It shows how Bible companies keep the cycle going, and much more.

Glad to hear Undertow helped you, Logicisgreatstuff. Your generation of Wayfers is near and dear to my heart, since my daughter was 12 years old when we escaped HQ. She reminds me that I said over and over that I wrote Undertow for your generation, since most (certainly not all) in mine were/are too brainwashed to consider reading it. By the way, logic, too, is near and dear to my heart. One of my favorite college courses post-TWI was Symbolic Logic. Cheers!

I remember when that "show" was put on in the WOW auditorium. OMG. We in research were rolling our eyes, or rather puking behind the scenes because we knew the "research" behind it was bogus. So did WJC, but he didn't confront LCM about it, just let it go ... one more nail in the coffin as far as I was concerned. I include details about this in Undertow. It was definitely a turning point. Ugh. Found out later, including in the well researched book,The Cult That Snapped, that there was much "hanky panky" going on with cast members, some strong testimonies in the book regarding LCM and the woman who played "the seed of the serpent." Disgusting and very sad, indeed.

Oldskool, it was complicated. Back in 1971 when I was in summer school at HQ, lots of us went to Adolf's Restaurant on the main drag in N.K. for beer or a sandwich. Adolf waited on us himself and we developed a nice rapor. In a newspaper article in about 1974 or 75 that mainly featured a ROA event, Adolph was interviewed and said some nice things about Way believers. I have that article somewhere buried in a box of stuff I referred to when writing Undertow. Too lazy at the moment to dig it out... Of course, I'm sure Adolph didnt mind the influx of money coming in from Way folks, escpecially during the first ROA in 1971. Later, while in the Corps 1971-1973, we continued to pour our tiny bit of allowance money (we got $20 a month for notepaper, shampoo, etc.) into eating there once in a while, although VPW preferred we "stay on grounds" with "the household of believers." So he started cooking hamburgers on a grill outside his house for us, taking away our excuse for going into town. Anything to keep us from interacting with outsiders who might ask too many questions, although we were supposed to "witness" to them and bring them to Sunday night services. At least once, some rowdies from town raced down Wierwille Rd. in a car and shot a hole in the Welcome sign down at the corner of Highway 29 and Wierwille Rd. It's the odd, round Way sign featured on the cover of The Cult That Snapped by Karl Kahler. So that didn't help relations with the town. But neither did VPW help keep things friendly, because he railed against church ministers there. Flash forward to 1984-1987 when I worked at HQ. Many of us on staff had kids in the public school in N.K., and ironically, some of the town kids were nicer to my daughter, for instance, than Way kids because Way kids put pressure on her to "witness" to the townies and she felt uncomfortable with that. I learned this from her AFTER we escaped. Oh, one more thing. Before the Executive Office Building was built in 1973 or maybe late 1972, while in the Corps, we had to do our laundry off grounds. The closest laundromat was in St. Mary's, so we "interacted" with locals there, but only to "witness to them," at least that was my experience. Not sure what else may have been going on with locals over the years ... That's all that comes to mind, just now.

To keep things interesting on this thread ... here's one of my blog posts at https://charleneedge.com dated: May 10, 2018. It's a letter from a pastor in New Knoxville, OH. Echo in New Knoxville, Ohio: Minister Reads Undertow | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)

Speaking of studying scripture, if you don't know, I was on The Way's biblical research team. That's where I had my realization that VPW's style of research wasn't for me (understatement). Rather than writing more on that here, I invite you to check out my presentation on YouTube. It's the only one of the more than 20 live presentations I gave over recent years about my Way experience. I'm retired from giving talks now. This is my legacy video.

All the best to you, T-Bone! Take good care of yourself and enjoy your life's journey. Cheers, Charlene

Thanks, Chockful. I'm glad to share that interview here. One of my favorite questions from Prof. Moss and my answer: MM: In the last chapter, “Turning the Tide,” you write about the denial of feelings that had become so prevalent in The Way’s teachings. Could you please elaborate on that aspect? CLE: One of Wierwille’s pet phrases was “Feelings come and go, but the Word of God liveth and abideth forever.” What he meant was that we were not to trust our feelings because they change all the time. And because they change, Wierwille told us they were unreliable sources for truth about ourselves. When our feelings contradicted Wierwille, we were trained to reject those feelings. One important example of this from my own life is in Undertow: Even when my gut feelings told me that the man I married had betrayed me and was not good for me, I was supposed to reconcile with him because the Bible said to forgive.

In 2017, I was invited to speak to an American Studies class at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg in Germany. Afterwards, the professor, Dr. Maria Moss (also an editor of their American Studies Journal) asked to do a print interview with me. Here's the two-part result: INTERVIEW American Studies Journal. Institute of English Studies and of the Zentraleinrichtung Moderne Sprachen (ZeMoS) at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg, Germany. Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part I) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org) Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part II) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

Hello, Greasespotters. Looking back on our experiences in TWI, I think many of us can related to the content in the attached FREE article I re-published on my website. It's by Michael Langone who holds a PhD in counseling psychology and is the now-retired executive director of International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), which provides information, education, and help to those adversely affected by or interested in cultic and other “high-control” groups and relationships. In my opinion, this article well describes aspects of cult ensnarement. Are we glad we escaped, one way or another? Enjoy reading the "3-D Cult Experience." 3-D Cult Experience.pdf

I appreciate your kind comments, Rocky. Over the years, I've written about fundamentalism and cults on my blog. Some readers here may be interested in the background of fundamentalism and what makes The Way fundamentalist in its approach to and application of Scripture, so in the attached file, I share what I've learned about that. Stay well everyone! Charlene https://charleneedge.com TWI and fundamentalism.pdf

Hello Greasespotters, If you subscribe to my blog, you may remember a post that covers the behind-the-scenes story of writing Undertow. I thought I'd share that story here. Dear Rachel.pdf

it's all in the attached PDF.

This case was recently settled. In the chronology of the case (click the link below) dates especially of interest: April 11, 2023 – Settlement Jan. 12 – 17, 2023 – Vince Finnegan subpoenaed and deposed Nov. 8, 2022 – Charlene Edge disposition. I was not subpoenaed. I was contacted by Vozzo's attorney because I am the author of Undertow. I agreed to give info about the TWI organization as it was during the 1980s. I was involved with TWI from 1970 - 1987. Vozzo v. The Way International et al 1:2020cv08026 | US District Court for the Southern District of New York | Justia Also, fyi: Vozzo v. The Way Int'l.pdfVozzo v. The Way Int'l.pdfVozzo v. The Way Int'l.pdfVozzo v. The Way Int'l.pdf

For anyone who wants to read The Way: Living in Love by Elena Scott Whiteside, you can go to the Internet Archive, create an account, and "borrow" it. Yes. Like going to an online library. I did this and flipped through the pages. I happen to have a hard-cover copy of Whiteside's book, so it's easy reference for me. Alas, the book is out-of-print, but sometimes you see a copy at an online book dealer for hundreds of dollars. That said, I'll spend another minute here to say I suspect The Way no longer publishes Whiteside's TWLIL book because so many of us who are cited in the book no longer support the organization, in fact, many of us speak out against it. For instance, my own recruitment story at the East Carolina Univeristy fellowship 1970, is in the book, so I referenced that in my own book, Undertow. Cheers from Charlene at https://charleneedge.com

If by "the snowstorm story" you mean the snow vision VPW said God gave him to verify that He had told VPW that He'd teach him the Word as it had not been known since the first century if he'd teach it to others, appears as part of what VPW told the author, Elena Whiteside, on page 180 of her book, The Way: Living in Love.

oops, I need to correct plagarist to plagiarist. If you don't know much about that, read this: plagiarism .

I prefer calling VPW what he was: a sexual predator, a cavalier plagarist, an abuser of naive followers.

Since my memoir, Undertow, was published, quite a few grown children of Way followers have contacted me. They ask things like how come their parents STILL adore such a depraved man as Wierwille? Most of these second-generation believers were abused by their Way Corps and non-Way Corps parents or their fellowship coordinator in one way or another. It's heartbreaking. They wish they could have gotten away from their own families while growing up! Some of them post here. Maybe we in the USA can take a lesson from Japan on this. There's a movement there to help children trapped in their parent's controlling religious organizations. Children troubled by parents' religion want "exit" system: survey (kyodonews.net) Do you think that could ever happen in this country?

Yay for the imagination. It's saved me in more ways than one!

Donated. Thank you for being here, Greasespot. Charlene

Someone has asked for this copy, so the offer is over.

Hi, my contribution to informing people about The Way is my memoir titled, Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International. I was a Way leader trained by the founder of The Way, Victor Paul Wierwille. In 1970, I dropped out of college gave his cult the next 17 years of my life. I invite you t check out my website for more info on my book, as well as plenty of free blog posts I wrote about what a cult is and what fundamentalism is. Cheers, Charlene Edge https://charleneedge.com