penworks

ohmygod. This is one of the worst stories I've heard yet. It's despicable. I'm so sorry you went through this at the sickening, twisted prompting of lc, bc, and others in The Way who used "committment to God" as the justification... I think I'm going to throw up.

These posts are very compelling and are a good example of how varied the Corps experience was, depending on when you were in it, how old you were, your own personal aspirations for the training, your previous religious experience, who your Corps coordinator was, how close VP monitored your performance, and on and on. I was in one of those early Corps, the 2nd one. Craig was in that one, too. VP watched us like a hawk. I went in because I wanted to know the Word, because VPW was proclaimed the man of God for this day and time by the people who witnessed to me at ECU (some of whom were also in the first and second and third Corps), and because I figured I could learn more of God's Word and learn it faster in the Corps than anywhere else. That was my idealistic logic at the ripe old age of 19 yrs. That was my "heart." Those things were only reinforced during the training. And stayed that way for 17 years until I left in 1987. I left because I no longer wanted to be involved with Fundamentalism nor believed the Bible was God's Word. But that's another story... The concept of being "toughened up" wasn't something I expected, but I did find out after I got there. To me it meant I had to be able to take harsh reproof and correction and do what I was told regardless of whether I understood why at the time (no, this did not include sleeping with the doctor, although others were not so lucky I now know). I had to learn to push myself physically - run faster, father, longer down Wierwille Rd. at 5:00 a.m. I had to memorize more scripture, I had to get along with others who were different than me, I had to be bolder when I witnessed to strangers (I hated that.) Perhaps this adds something to this discussion. If not, oh well...

For anyone interested, here's a link to an interview of the author on NPR. I find the book fascinating and very pertinent to the topic of why we suffer. Ehrman also authored, Misquoting Jesus. IMO both books are excellent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=19096131

"Well, they could emerge from obscurity with a prize-winning research team" Speaking of this topic - Has anyone here thought about the possibility that doing biblical research is as futile as hanging clothes on the line in the rain? It rarely acheives what it sets out to do. IMO - it adds more @#$% to the heap of Bible interpretations that already cause so many schisms in the world. Give peace a chance.

I, too, just listened to this interview. I personally know Kristen. It's a devastating story. It's unfortunate beyond belief. There were many hurt in the same way, some who knew about it but denied it, and some like me who were oblivious and blind and not targeted - for whatever reason I don't know for sure. The sadness I feel about that blindness is something I've borne for a long time. Sometimes I think that had I known, I somehow could've prevented the abuses. But a social worker once told me that siblings of abused children often feel that same guilt but the reality is they couldn't have prevented it...who knows... For clarification: I can personally attest to the fact that the lockbox teaching about these sexual activities was not taught to everyone who ended up as a leader. The broad concept of the "lockbox," however, was applied whenever an issue was supposed to be kept "in house," for instance when VP had confrontations with research people who disagreed with him and they left or he kicked them out of the Corps, etc.

Wonderful interview! I've known Kristen since 1970 and am proud she's telling the truth about her experience. The interview is refreshingly frank - let's hope listeners really hear her message...it's clear as a bell. Thanks Paw and Kristen!

Yes. She's an 8th Corps grad. Her blog is at http://losingtheway.blogspot.com/ I for one really appreciate Pawtucket interviewing her. She is a wonderful, sensitive person of integrity whose voice speaks for many.

I just finished reading Bart Erhman's book, Misquoting Jesus. I think he offers an important viewpoint on textual research, a topic I am very interested in since I was on the Research Team at HQ and came to similar conclusions as he presents...

On this topic, I suggest reading: Wide as the Waters - The Story of the English Bible and the Revolution it Inspired, by Benson Bobrick (historian) and other books like, Karen Armstrong's recent one: The Bible, a Biography.

Enjoy your birthday, Kit! Thanks for what you do to help keep GSC going. penworks

Does anyone here read any history of the Bible? Does anyone else question the dream of trying to get the "accuracy" of such a book? If you're here, I'd like to hear from you. To me, that issue is at the root of what drives groups like this new one. I was in the old one for many years. Seems to me time and energy is better spent on other ways of improving the world, but that's just my opinion. Guess I forget I've been outside the box so long it's hard to remember the blind idealism still inside it.

If anyone is interested, other books regarding these topics of who wrote the Bible, the history of the text, and who decided what documents to include in the canon are: The Bible - A Biography by Karen Armstrong (her latest), Beyond Belief by Elaine Pagels, Misquoting Jesus by Bart Erhman, Wide as the Waters - The Story of the English BIble and the Revolution It Inspired by Benson Bobrick, and Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman to name a few good ones I've read.

Lisa, Welcome to GSC! Your work sounds great and in my opinion is very important. I don't live in Colorado, so I can't help with that, but there are tons of people on this site who might be fairly near you and available to interview. I suggest you post a notice under the general topic here called About The Way. Good luck!

I found them. Please disregard this request now. Thanks!

I like your channel analogy. I agree that in 1975 there was a lot going on, and I'll just add a little more background to your comment: "IMO......The Way Channel started expanding its market and, more agressively, separated from other Christian work in 1975." While I was in the Corps in 1971 - 73, VP conducted The Way Presents in an attempt to immitate Billy Graham's crusades, I think. Anyway, it was a big move for more national attention and we, as Corps, had to get out there and sign people up for PFAL following VP's teaching at the event. So in one way of looking at it, he was trying to expand his market even then and especially so after the first Corps graduated in 1972 and carried "the heart of the ministry" to a few major states, pushing all his programs and running big meetings for VP. I do remember VP using tapes of other people "healing" so-called possessed individuals, for instance, during the advanced class. But after we heard the tapes, he would give a critique of those ministers, finding them "off" in some way or another. To me, this indicated that VP knew a better way, a more accurate knowledge of the subject. He was more spiritual than those other poor ministers who were trying to do good but just didn't have the greatness of the Word to guide them like we did in our ministry. From the rhetoric I heard during my Corps training, I'd say he always hyped his ministry as being the only one teaching the accuracy of the Bible. And so often, he neglected to give credit to sources he used for his information (to put it mildly)...

I found him. Thanks to all for their help in the search!

"But she blessed a lot of people in STL and probably elsewhere. Is all that just meaningless now?" Regarding the thinking reflected in the sentence above: IMO this is a good example of the black and white thinking Tex and others have pointed out as a characteristic of TWI. It's a characteristic of most fundamentalist groups. I think the answer is not a simple yes or no. Just because I left TWI and now consider, as Tex does, that mind control was implemented in my indoctrination, doesn't negate the good hearted kindness I extended to people, IMO. I look back and would like to think most of my actions came from a good heart, that I was trying to do something helpful for others and sometimes I actually DID do something helpful...but often because I was misinformed about what would be the best kind of advice to give, I may have caused more damage than healing in people's lives, i.e. by telling them to renew their minds instead of referring them to a professional counselor. Those instances are my regrets. Meaning is a big philosophical topic, but in a word, and IMO, the answer is No, the kindnesses were not meaningless. You value the "good", leave the "bad." Determining what was the good and what was the bad is our ongoing challenge and needs to be evaluated carefully and not with a blanket generalization.

I appreciate the education you're providing here. It's easy to see it is a political investigation when it's conducted by a member of Congress...a previous post I made stands corrected. Cheers! penworks

Tex, I'm sooo sorry about your losing your mother - that is a heavy blow! And now a broken ankle to deal with. I trust you'll heal well - take good care of yourself. IMO your blog is educational yet personal and I for one appreciate the care with which you present your story. Today I'm preordering your book! Best wishes to you and your family for a happy new year! Love, penworks

Thanks for the blog link. That about sums it all up!

Yes, I believe it's a legal issue regarding finances (has their non-profit status been abused?) that's why a Senator on the Finance Committee is investigating it.

Welcome to the Cafe, Tex! Glad to have you here, some of us have been "out" for about 20 years, too, so you may run into old friends. I for one am very excited about your upcoming book, so let us know when it's available! You're a courageous person and an inspiriation! I can imagine it's been a long road but a very worthwhile one writing your story. Enjoy your holidays and stay well !

Happy Birthday, Rocky. Hope you see this before midnight. Anyhow, have a super year and enjoy the books on that reading list you recently commented on... Take care and don't forget to order Christian's book; it was released today on his site! Stay well!

If you slept in an assigned bunkbed in a trailer...er, mobile home...for two years straight, with four more bunkbeds lined up in a row next to yours and they all had matching blue plaid bedspreads... you VERY likely were in a cult.