penworks

Paw, Thanks again for all your efforts here at GSC and most recently for the anniversary interview covering 86-89 events. That was an excellent idea and the "third trunk leader" did a very fine job! For me, he provided some missing puzzle pieces that have left me wondering for 21 years... Love to both of you, penworks

Seems to me that this thread is relevant to the current one on plagarism, so thought I'd bring it out of the dust bin of 2005. peace, penworks

Thanks, Paw, this is full of outstanding messages! staying hungry, penworks

I've seen this documentary, also. Since it was made, I understand Jesus Camp has been discontinued. Newsflash: In our newspaper this morning I read that tonight, 4-12-08, "CBS' 48 Hours offers an intimate look at The Lord's Boot Camp, an interdenominational evangelical group in Merritt Island [Florida] that trains teen missionaries. The program premieres at 8:00 tonight on WKMG-Channel 6. The Lord's Boot Camp is a collaboration between the newsmagazine and Loki Films, makers of Jesus Camp, an Oscar-nominated documentary." IMO, these camps take advantage of teens. Teens have underdeveloped brains that don't allow them to understand what they are really involved with. Because teen brains are not fully developed, they lack of the capacity to make decisions that reflect they understand the ramifications of their actions. This has been scientifically shown. Human brains are not fully developed until the early 20's. IMO these teen camps and trainings are immoral and unethical. Period. Edited by penworks.

T-bone said: Religious passion is a powerful force. TWI took advantage of that - yeah, ol' vp figured out how to harness that power...he got people to hitch their wagons onto his grand delusion - We're the only ones working for the one true God! Dat's riiiiiiight! He told me so...audibly!!!! The psychological entanglement wrought ever so subtly on followers will ratchet-up as one "ascends" the hierarchy of TWI. Sure, there was peer pressure. But that only reinforced the mindset drummed into "the truly committed ones" – on Corps Night, in Corps meetings, in the atmosphere of household public opinion…I bet just about any "significant" teaching to fall on the ears of those "dedicated to a lifetime of Christian service" were peppered with those "lovely ties that bind" – ideas that drive the barbed hooks deeper into the heart: Where else are you going to go? To walk out on God's ministry is to plunge into oblivion. Who else is rightly dividing the Word? Remember who taught you the Word. You're to be especially good to the household. Penworks says: Ditto. Anyone with an interest in how techniques are used to inculcate these ideas might want to check out some reading on cults, like Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan. It is very thorough and easy to read. When I left twi in 1987 I sure wish a book like this had been around then...there were a few like Mind Benders and Snapping, but they're not as good, IMO. I may sound like a broken record (and a book nerd) because I recommend this book on many different posts here at GSC, but hey - if you want to really understand something, it helps to do some in-depth reading that you can't get in short posts like these...

Well, Oakspear, you aren't missing much...IMO. These discussions are valuable to some, but to me they're a tangled web of sorting out a lot of messy and ill-conceived research. I think our time is better spent doing something else. I think there are enough topics at GSC already to substantiate the fact the VP stole, borrowed, tweaked, misrepresented and otherwise contorted other people's Bible research. His zeal to prove something that cannot be proven (the Bible is the Word of God, the Bible is perfect, etc.) drove some of us crazy long enough...I think he missed the important fact that the scriptures are products from various cultures from various times for various reasons and offer various levels of various sorts of enlightenment, etc. (now that's a record for the number of times I've used the same word in one sentence). I think they've been made out to be something they were never intended to be. I'll stop now... I'm not trying to disillusion anyone who still feels differently. My "beliefs" are not necessarily for everyone...I'm just sharing part of my own personal experience. peace, penworks

My two in-residence Way Corps years (I was a teenager) were spent in trailer #6 at the Way's headquaters outside of New Knoxville. For awhile, I loved being out in the country...the adventure of learning about farm life, the quiet mornings running down the road memorizing scripture, the inspiring orange sunsets over the corn fields. But that lovely hill-covered area of Ohio only fed into the isolation practices that enabled doctrines to be implanted in my mind more effectively than in a city. We had fewer distractions on "the farm." Because I was enamored with the Way's doctrines and believed that God wanted me to be there - and I was so very young and inexperienced - I was blind to what was really happening to me. And I'm sure there are other factors, but that's another story. Isolation from TV news, newspapers, radio, influence of family, friends, etc. was a perfect environment for this indoctrination. The "townies" were only people to be converted, the "locals" were future targets for witnessing nights and objects of criticism for their unbelief and their "negative" opinions about what was going on at HQ. Isolation is only one thing that helps make mind control techniques effective. For further reading, check out Combatting Cult Mind Control by Stephen Hassan That's just the beginning of the story...for other stories related to living there, read other posts here at GSC - there are many... peace, penworks

These are heartbreaking incidents, many of which were not known to most people in the ministry at the time they happened. Too bad stories like this did not make it into the newspapers. Perhaps investigations could have been done that would've stopped further such activities of twi. Perhaps if we keep typing away on GSC, we can make a dent in the numbers of people who get involved with twi in any way shape or form. peace, penworks

Ditto. Thanks, Paw! Peace, Penworks

Didn't mean to throw around $10 words, just trying to throw some light on a complex subject. To me, I try and remember the Bible is made up of a lot of different documents that were written at different times in history and influenced by various cultures. And their world outlooks were vastly different from ours. For instance, all of those documents (books of the Bible) were written when people believed the world was flat. Just imagine that maybe there are very plausible reasons to value those documents instead of labeling them the "The Word of God." Guess I have been very curious about where that idea came from. I know VPW got sold on it by Rosalind Rinker. When you check into who she was, you find she was a Christian fundamentalist. Fundamentalism, which VP denied he was into, has a basic tenant that the Bible is inerrant, and that just means without a mistake or error. That is a widely disputed claim. THere are sound and respectable reasons for challenging that claim, but it takes more than posts here at GSC to get into it. But for those interested, the info is easily accessible at the library, books for sale at Amazon etc. and various sites all over the Internet... I just think we need to be careful about assuming that just because these documents were included in between those 2 covers this makes them "perfect." The people who decided which books to include had certain reasons, some of which were political. Some of those documents were assumed to be written by Paul but recent discoveries show they weren't. As far as translations and versions go, if a person says the Bible is the Word of God, I usually ask which version or translation is he or she referring to? If each word is supposed to be perfect, we have a problem right off the bat when we translate from one language (i.e. Greek) into English or Latin or Spanish. The translator has to make subjective decisions about which word to use. (Hence, those literal translations according to usage that are referred to by another poster here.) Anyhow, this post is too long already. I say, life is more fun and interesting doing other things than wrangling about these issues which take a lot of study by others trained more than me. I just have a lot of questions and not a lot of answers. I'm just an amatuer anyhow...

skyrider: BACK THEN........in the 70s/early 80s........those general concepts of "move the word, preach the word" ran the spectrum from "leading one to the new birth" to "leading as a trustee in twi." BACK THEN........there was a research department in twi with some quality individuals and many of us truly believed that twi was forthright with a genuine concern for teaching right doctrine AND right practice........not junk like "follow your father in the word." Just to clarify a little: Yes, there was a research dept. back then (through 1988 or 89) with dedicated people who were sincere (as we know that's no guarantee for truth) but what you call "junk like 'follow your father in the word'" was still also very much at the forefront of belief for at least some of the first few corps (like me) who were still delusional about him. Back then, for me, vpw was still the MOG for this day and time. And what he said the Word said took priority over anything different that might have turned up in research, and it did...but that's another story... edited by penworks for spelling :-)

"All the time and effort and investment into God's Word are the precious treasures you will have FOREVER!" I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but keep in mind some things when you say sentences like the above. For instance, what you're referring to when you say "God's Word." You might want to check out information about fundamentalism, inerrancy, the canon, other documents not included in the canon, dispensationalism, translation of scripture, etc. the list goes on an on. It ain't as simple as you might think; certainly not as simple as The Way made it look...

Happy birthday! It's mine, too. 7:14 a. m. 1952. Aries is a great sign, full of adventure!

"I was planning on going WOW but I was not man enough to disregard my wifes and kids needs." I suggest you re-think this evaluation of yourself. Your family comes first, IMO. No cult's program is worth doing if your family needs you...

On this subject, I highly recommend the book, Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan.

Remember that VPW got the idea that the Bible was the Word of God and that it was the will of God from Rosalind Rinker waaayyy back. Keep in mind that she came out of the tradition of Fundamentalism which has as one of its main tenants that the Bible (N.T. canon established in the 4th century A.D.) is the Word of God. There's plenty of info in books you can find in the library and on web sites that explain the history of the N.T. canon, as well as the formation of the O.T. canon. This subject is critical to any study of the Bible, as far as I'm concerned, yet is ignored by most people who are glib when they parrot the phrase that the Bible is the Word of God. Just exactly what they mean is up for grabs. If you pin them down, they usually give you lots of circlular logic in response...they usually are uninformed about what they're referring to exactly...

I e-mailed them and asked whether Paul Mek@l was affiliated with them. I knew him back in the Way Corps in 1972. If I get a reply, I'll post it here.

Here you go.

Technically, the first 3 Corps did two back-to-back years and then graduated. We did have a "field" experience for a few weeks during the second year, being sent out by VP to certain cities to get a class together or don't come back. I was in the 2nd Corps. (everyone came back).

skyrider: The corps logo WAS a five-pointed star with an inner circle......and a 'C' (for Christ) in the core center. Apparently, the program was view to be 'christ-centered'.........with strength and ability derived from there. Just for the record, the very first Corps seal or logo was created by a second Corps person in 1972 ish before the 1st Corps graduated so it could be put on their graduation certificate. It had two open hands with the list of gift ministries printed on them, a dove and the words The Way Corps. I'll see if I can post a graphic of it...Dr. later discontinued using it because he said people got the idea that everyone who graduated had a gift ministry and that wasn't the case...

Best wishes for a wonderful day, WG! Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Gahndi

Just for the record, I remember AFTER I had started the Corps program at HQ (2nd Corps), one day I was in Trailer 6 talking with a fellow bunk mate. We were covertly expressing our surprise - and were a little chagrined - about finding out what we'd really signed up for. We hadn't known we'd be sent wherever Dr. wanted us to go after the program was over. That objective wasn't too clear to us when we applied, for some reason. But we figured it was God's will, so we went with it. No Corps were on the field yet. The first Corps was in their second year of training. The zero Corps had been kicked out, of course, so there was no precedent set yet for Corps grad tasks, etc. I realize now that I was so caught up in the dream that I did not think very far down the road. But at 19 yrs. old, who does? A few do, I guess...but I was not one of them.

I can verify Howard was very ill and that Dr. called it encephalitis. I was in-residence in the Way Corps at HQ at the time. We prayed round the clock for him and heard from Dr. that beet juice was being administered to Howard while in his hospital bed and Pa# L*nn was there often to help. I remember Dr. telling us that this unorthodox beet juice treatment, although sanctioned by the attending physician (a PFAL grad), was causing a stir at the hospital, but that it was helping. The day Dr. and Howard arrived back at HQ after Howard's stay in the hospital, we greeted him with cheers as he climbed out of the camper. We stood on the driveway alongside the ramp that leads to the BRC dining room. He was very fraile but walked on his own and stayed home for quite a while after that. I remember Dr. saying he believed the hitchhiker must have been an angel. I was very impressed with that, as I was a very impressionable 20 year old in 1972. (Now you know how old I am :-) Anyway, the event surely was labeled as a miracle. God saved VP's best friend, etc. It seems to me that the story was used at many meetings to testify to the power of God's healing and the stand the ministry took on believing God for miracles, as well as promoting natural ingredients to heal, in addition to using regular medicines.

Agreed!

I'm almost finished reading Ehrman's book and so far find his arguments compelling. One point in particular about his approach to the scriptures that is impressive is that he sticks with the context of each view found in each separate book written by each separate author. This enabled me to sort out the different views and why the writers had them. To me it's extrememly important to understand each book in its historical context. If you can, give this book as an objective a read as you can and think it over...