penworks

Dear Bishop, My intention is to show that nostalgia for the "old days" does not serve us well. Also, I hoped to point out what many people miss and that is: that the foundation of the TWI/offshoot groups is Fundamentalism. If people don't know that, it sometimes makes it harder to understand the experience. Understanding my experience and creating a new life - not thinking "the old days" were so good when they were built on a faulty foundation which I think Fundamentalism provides - was my intention in this post. If you feel your experience was good for you, great. For many others theirs was not. Mine was a mix. Sometimes it helps to know more information that can clear up foggy issues about the past. For me, understanding Fundamentalism was a huge relief...it made it possible for me to explore more of the history of the kind of thinking and the kind of bible study I had been caught up in. That system puts people at a disadavantage by keeping them locked in from considering other valid and wonderful ways of being in the world. These are only a few of my many thoughts on this, so I feel it's best to let this go for now. If you are interested, I would be happy to provide you with some book titles on the subject. I wish you the best in your journey. It's yours. Cherish it. Peace, Penworks

Thanks for this well put explanation. It surely is important to remember that many younger people are vulnerable during transition times...I'll dare say people at any age in various stages of change are especially vulnerable. My story is a little like what you described...in college, away from home, looking for answers, etc. While in TWI, in regards to methods for witnessing: I remember being encouraged to check newspaper obituaries and contact the families of the deceased. The reason: they would need to know the truth about death, etc. and so might be very open to taking PFAL. Their obvious vulnerability was a red flag. Their broken hearts feed for preying upon. I shudder to remember such things. I never followed that marketing advice, thank goodness. It was and is a repulsive and inhumane idea to me.

The auditorium was still being built when I got to HQ in August 1984.

Thanks for the comment but I have a question: does possessing a gun and using it to intimidate, as you say, mean a person is violent or has the potential for being violent? I don't doubt that there were some gun toting folks, waysider; I knew of certain bodyguards back in 1976-1977 who carried firearms to protect VP when a bunch of us went to Minnesota for a meeting. Now if my friend had asked whether TWI PROMOTES violence publically as part of their dogma which thinking back on the context of our conversation is really what she meant, my "No" seems accurate not only regarding "the old VP days" but also for the version of TWI that exists today. I do remember there were teachings (1970-1987) that included something like this: If we lived in Old Testament times, we could execute the unbelievers like Israel did. I find that alarming and disgusting at best. On TV I hear similar allusions cited on the fundamentalist/evangelist megachurch channels. Tomorrow is Sunday...maybe I'll tune in and get a few examples...maybe I won't. I have other things to do.

Today a friend of mine asked me why anyone who never heard of The Way (she was one before she met me) would care about what goes on in groups like that...are they violent? No, I said. Should I be afraid of them? she wondered. Well, that depends on a lot of things... Her questions gave me pause. She asked me whether this group or groups like it were extreme like the Islamic Extremists she sees on T.V. Well, I said, the same kind of extreme us vs. them thinking goes on, and there are some extreme ideas about theology and behavior modification techniques, and other features you find in cults. But personally I never heard violence promoted in twi, although others say they did. Some members also witnessed some gun waving (I didn't)and I experienced emotional and verbal violence. I'm still thinking of ways to answer her initial question about whether she should fear them...I personally think since she's educated about cults she shouldn't...but then, if enough extremists register to vote and gain politial power to make decisions that affect the rest of us, well...then... Anyhow, there's a web site called T.E.D. I go to for "ideas worth spreading." I came across this one about violence and thought some of you might find it pertinent to this topic. Enjoy. I tried to embed the video but that feature didn't work. Here's the link.

It means he still palms himself off as the last true defender of the true VP doctrine...

Good grief. Another offshoot. I remember this guy. This just is another example of the downside of religious freedom in this country...start a non-profit (although looks like a for-profit outfit) and you too can "hold forth" your version of The Word. What's the answer to this madness? Education. Education. Education. But that takes time and effort. Few seem to want to make that investment.

"Just seems like very few SHOUT FROM THE HOUSETOPS the twisting of scripture, the deceitful doctrines, the lewd behavior, the secret agendas, the wierwille idolatry, the pyramid of power, the raping and abortions, the wholesale plagiarism, the cult mentality and isolation, the use and abuse of way corps, the grooming of lcm/geer in the image of wierwille, etc.. How many splinter groups/ wierwille-imposters are there nowadays, anyway>??????" Penworks response: One is too many.

Yes, I remember it when it was built. How could I forget it? I was there opening night. Oh the drama. It originally was supposed to have a research library in it but that got scrapped. I noticed huge paintings of VP in there on the wall, though. I remember the Corps night we got locked in there to listen to Chris Geer spout his stuff he said that VP said that he said ...blah blah blah I remember the gross Athletes of the Spirit performance on that high priced technical stage. I remember the ... oh forget it.

Well I suspect it might be more complicated than that. I don't think the human mind is as strong as we'd like to believe. There was some pretty intense indoctrination going on even with adults. Over the years I've thought about those adults (over 35 yrs. old :-) who got involved while I was in. That was 1970-1987. There were several entire families in together; some of the parents ended up in the Corps. Because of their presence, I've hesitated to say it would be easier to spot falacies in logic, etc. if we'd been older. Older doesn't seem to matter. There were highly skilled professionals active in the ministry: i.e. a surgeon, teachers, etc. and even in the second Corps someone over 30 had a PhD in Literature! In my view, whatever deep needs people had in their hearts, no matter what their age (and there were plenty of old timers around by the time I left) drew them to TWI and kept them there. Most of us have heard this before: the need for belonging, for simple answers from the Bible which was held to be the Word of God, etc. People's particular needs combined with the certainty of answers given spells committment to the one handing out the answers, it seems... If you think comments made here are missing, I guess you need to contact the administrators. It's okay with me if you want to send the post to someone to help them out.

Good morning everyone. Just checking in with my morning cup of coffee in hand and was shocked to read what's been going on while I snoozed away here in sunny Florida. A quick update from my chair: Everything I write or say I take responsibility for, as we all do. My intent is to speak my mind on things which may be useful to others and do it not with the intention to harm. Then let the chips fall where they may. After reading all these recent posts, I signed into the other site and read those as well. After much thought, I deleted this pesky post from the other site and sent a polite message to the owner. I did that out of respect for the owner's rules which before this incident were not so clear to me. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted this material there to begin with. Anyway, it's wonderful to read such thoughtful replies both here and from people there who left comments. In both places there are some insightful and informative things said about the topics in the post. Believe me, I've put a lot of thought into these matters for more than 20 years and feel compelled to share what I've learned. About our lives, no one can speak for us other than our own voices. I'll leave you with my favorite quote on this theme: "If we refuse to do the work of creating this personal version of the past, someone else will do it for us. That is the scary political fact. 'The struggle of man against power,' Milan Kundera's hero in The Book of Laughter and Forgetting says, 'is the struggle of memory against forgetting.' He refers to willful political forgetting, the habit of nations and those in power to deny the truth of memory in order to disarm moral and ethical power. It is an efficient way of controlling masses of people." From the book, I Could Tell You Stories by Patricia Hampl, pg.32. Cheers! Enjoy your day! Penworks

I disagree. Here's why. I understand how some people may think The Way was good “in the old days” and somehow “got off track” in later years. But I take issue with this line of thinking. I call it deluded nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition. What exactly is that condition people are craving? I was involved from 1971-1987 and I don’t crave any of it. But I figure I’d pitch in my two cents here. Frankly, I think it appears to be nostalgia for small fellowships with rock music or old hymns “corrected to be accurate” with Way doctrine, simple teachings (I guess), and camaraderie with others who thought like we did, and learning “what the Bible says.” On the surface, these things seem fairly harmless. But when I really think about the “old TWI days,” and these activities, I come up with some concerns: 1. The simplistic idealism that we could save the world with cut and dry Bible answers 2. The lack of mature dealings in the world. I was addressed as a child and kept from growing up while in the Corps and afterwards, 3. The gross neglect of my critical thinking faculty 4. The fact we were supposed to sell the PFAL class to people in order for VP to approve of our lives 5. The issue of whether we were “helping people” by using tools belonging to VP’s brand of fundamentalism 6. As far as I know, some still think they helped people with “the Word.” But what exactly is “The Word?” It’s very vague to me. My understanding is that when a phrase is used, there’s a definition for it somewhere. I don’t know of one for “The Word.” It is a phrase thrown around as if we all know what it means. This reminds me of the fairytale about the Emperor’s new clothes. The fact was: Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I don’t think anyone knows what The Word is. 7. Suffice it to say here, the usual explanation by TWI people and former TWI people for what “The Word” is goes something like this: you have to “use certain keys to research to discover what the original Word was.” Whose keys to research? How come we so readily accepted VP’s which he took from various other people who were fundamentalists? If it were so simple to know “The Word,” how come so many diverse interpretations persist? But back to the good old days. Let’s say the “good old Way days” were good after all, although this is hard for me to fathom. What exactly is being referred to by this claim? IMO, VP created some sense of community with some people for awhile, but what was that based upon? The way I see it, it was based on an agreement that VP’s teachings were God’s Word, on the commitment to the common cause of VP’s delusion of “moving The Word over the World,” and on a simple love for other people - as long as they obeyed what VP said was The Word. If they didn’t, at the very least they were not as spiritual as we were; at the very worst they were “born of the seed of the devil.” Let’s not forget, however, that this conditional camaraderie came at a price: It was held together by a patriarchal system fraught with deception and power struggles, not to mention rampant sexual, fiscal, and emotional abuse. In my view, wishing for “the good old days of The Way” denies the nature of the group itself – a fundamentalist, narrow-minded, anti-Christian movement. Why do I say it is anti-Christian? Because people were used as a means to an end. What was the end? Believe that what VP taught was the truth. Evangelize. Sell PFAL classes. Behave according to what The Way leadership dictated. Nostalgia for the old days also seems to deny the fact that from its inception, the cult was engineered by V.P. Wierwille, who claimed, like Paul in the New Testament, that he heard an audible voice from a monotheistic God adopted from another culture from thousands of years ago (or the voice of Jesus, as in Paul’s case) that no one else heard. This raises all sorts of issues too complex to get into here I think. While I met many good people whose kindness made me feel loved, during my TWI years, VP’s teachings, such as telling me I was “more than a conqueror” did not help me resolve problems I brought into The Way with me. For awhile, it engendered a positive attitude in me but it did not produce a healthy self image or tolerance, understanding and compassion for others who might not agree with what I believed. I think the doctrines in many instances only instilled a good deal of denial about myself, the good in the world, other cultures, and denial about what it means to be human. When I first took PFAL, at 18 years old, I certainly was gullible to The Way’s “answers” but the human brain is not even fully developed until 23 or 24 years old so that’s part of this scenario, too. But I also readily admit that I consciously turned a deaf ear to people who warned me not to get involved. Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It’s not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

Indeed! I hope this web site can open some former members' eyes (and current ones) about other options for a good, ethical, and productive life. Self confidence is the first step...I know it was for me.

Thanks for the updates. Geer's unquestioning dedication to VP doctrine is astounding...but not so suprising...as is most of the splinter groups' promoters. They show how powerful indoctrination can be. When critics scoff at the idea of mind control being a real issue in extremist groups, I think they're missing out on a good long look at examples like this...

Does anyone know whether Geer's class is still being conducted? Not that I hope so... For info about him and his PFAL spin-off class refer to: Chris Geer's TWI offshoot class

I agree that the so-called Law of Believing is a major problem that keeps being propounded. But I would go further than that. IMO it's the underlying assumption that the Bible has all the answers to life's problems and must be without error. Due to the preliferation of spin-off groups based on VPW's research, I'd say the indoctrination techniques in TWI, particularly regarding research, were more powerful than some people might think. Here's a good example: From The Cult that Snapped by Karl Kahler: Bible Lands research issues

While it's possible to be good hearted, not abusive, not "on the take," which the people running this group very well may be, that is beside the point IMO. It is still possible to be misled, and then, although you didn't originate the doctrines you perpetuate, be held responsible for continuing to propound those doctrines as "truth." My questions about doing this are many. Some are: Is this the best way to help people? Is "The Word" so plainly obvious for all to see? If so, why are there so many divergent groups and interpretations? These are old questions, I know. IMO, it's important to keep in mind that just because people start a spin-off of TWI does not imply they are bad people. What I do think it does show or seem to indicate is that are still convinced they were taught "the accuracy of the Bible" by VPW. To me that fact is important to know when considering how to evaluate a spin-off or whether or not to "join" it.

Here ya go... The splinter group business

Refer to the topic, The Slinter Group Business, for three more named groups involving Way Corps grads.

You might be interested in reading, The End of Biblical Studies by Hector Avalos. The End of Biblical Studies

Another one: San Diego Biblical Studies Fellowship This one is run by a Family Corps grad but he was not a part of the Research Team.

Two more spin-off groups involving Way Corps graduates, each of whom were on the Way's Research Team in the 1980s: Light of the Word Ministry and Christian Leadership Training

The first and second corps were also brought back in for another year of indoctrination.

I'm posting this link because I've been asked about this group. It is a spinoff group of twi. Capital Area Biblical Studies Fellowship