penworks

If you Google his name, you'll find some info. I don't know whether he pursued a degree in Bible studies.

John Schoenheit was a grad of the 6th Corps and a member of the research team from Aug. 1983 (at least) - Oct. 1986 when he got fired for writing the paper on adultery. I worked with him on the research team at HQ from Aug. 1984 - Aug. 1986. His focus was Old Testament history and Oriental customs. He taught classes on these topics to the Way Corps. He often answered research-oriented letters from people who wrote to VP or Walter Cummins, the head of the research dept. Often his answers were published in the Way Magazine. He headed up the trip to the Bible Lands in Oct. 1985. His approach to interpreting the Bible is much the same as VPWs - fundamentalist in nature.

I'm sure you have and you're not the only one. I tried in 1987 before all this got rolling...in my living room in Florida I explained to JAL that verses like II Peter 1:20,21 were not sure-fire truths for me, as far as referring to Genesis to Revelation like VPW said. (there's a thread here about that). But JAL was too wound up with his ideas to hear me...he said he didn't have time for all that sort of research. I clearly remember this because it shocked me so much. For me, I could not run around saying, Thus saith the Lord, if I wasn't sure just what the Lord said. Within the last year on the Way Corps site when I reminded him of that talk we had, he told me he doesn't remember that conversation since he's had so many conversations with so many people.

Welcome to GSC, Beanaboos! There are lots of topics here that we hope you find helpful. As far as Childrens Fellowship goes, I helped coordinate some of the fellowships for children during the 1970s and early 1980s in California and Florida and at Childrens Camp during Corps week. I remember some of it was fun but the doctrine, as many of us feel now, was dogmatic and repressive, to say the least. VPW used to say when a child was born to TWI parents, "That is how we get 'em into the Way ministry!" He said this on the video "Changed" made in 1977, and although he laughed and the audience laughed, he meant it, believe me. IMO, that thinking is terrible (again an understatement). For many, children were a means to TWI's end: getting the Word (VP's interpretation of the Bible) over the world. Obviously, that is a repulsive idea to those of us who finally woke up and left and took our kids with us! I left TWI in 1987 and can tell you that Wordwolf's run-down of events is very good. There are some other topics about childrens fellowship here that I think you can find when you use the Search feature. Also, the Writing Machine web site that cheranne mentioned is very good, too! Wishing you the best! Charlene

Yid, I realize you have been through a tramatic experience with the healings you mention and it seems that you feel deeply that the benefits you got from TWI are worth defending. That is your personal business. But when you come here and defend VP in such uninformed ways and dogmatic ways, I have to say I am worried about your frame of mind. Where you are getting these ideas about how great VP was regardless of his behavior? Ideas that are so hurtful not only to yourself but to others (to say the least)as many of these posts show. I hope you are reading them all. There is much to learn from people here at GSC who have suffered and yet have learned lessons that are helpful to others. Now, I'm going to offer a section from a book that you probably will not like but give it a chance. Think about it. I am posting it because it speaks to the kind of person I used to be - yes, I was a fanatic for many years in TWI - and the kind of thinking I see in your post seems fanatical to me. It is not reasoned, but is driven by an emotional dogmatic reaction to facts and testamonies about VPW and his writings here that you find hard to accept. I suspect that they are hard to accept because if you accept them, you have to give up something you cherish. That thing you cherish is your apparent belief in the value of VP's interpretations of the Bible, many of which WERE COPIED, and to give that up is hard. I know, I did it. But your life is worth more than defending their propaganda. You can ignore what I have to say and what others here say if you want, but if you do, maybe at some point you will re-read what we've said and reconsider that what you cling to in your post is indefensible and that how you struck out at us was reckless, with accusations like, "I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate." To me, since you do not even know me, this is not only insulting, to me it is awful. Do you understand that by saying that, you are accusing me and everyone else of being hateful in the posts we've written. If you've seen hate here, you should qualify where it came from. I would hope you might consider apologizing to those of us here who try hard to be helpful and honest. Let's try and steer clear of fanaticism of any kind, which is driven by negative emotions and shows up in statements like that one you made. This excerpt is from a book called, The True Believer – Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements by Eric Hoffer. Harper & Row Publishers, Inc. N.Y. 1951. "It goes without saying that the fanatic is convinced that the cause he holds on to is monolithic and eternal – a rock of ages. Still, his sense of security is derived from his passionate attachment and not from the excellence of his cause. The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness and holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold on to. Often, indeed, it is his need for passionate attachment which turns every cause he embraces into a holy cause. The fanatic cannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause. But he finds no difficulty in swinging suddenly and wildly from one holy cause to another. He cannot be convinced but only converted. His passionate attachment is more vital than the quality of the cause to which he is attached." (p84) Good luck to you, Charlene

Be not fooled. What waysider is saying is important and critical to our understanding of the history of TWI. One thing I want to add: many of us while we were "in" TWI mistakenly gave thanks to VPW and his group, TWI, for things and events for which we should have given thanks only to God. One of the major challenges in leaving TWI is untangling the big parts of our experiences during our association with TWI as if it were a gigantic ball of string. For me, this ball of string consisted of God (my perception of God), the gospel accounts of Jesus, the ministry of Paul, The Bible as a whole, VPW's beliefs, his personality, his strengths and his weaknesses, and overall moral conduct including his interpretation or misinterpretation of the Bible; TWI as an organization; the actions of followers trained by VPW; the overall context of VPW's belief system, which is Fundamentalism; the aspects of cult behavior, etc. The list goes on. Until we do this work, we will continue to see people give VPW undeserved credit for many positive things in our lives that happened during the years we just happened to spend associated with TWI. For all we know, they would have happened without TWI. There is a God outside TWI, after all. One of VPW's strengths was his ability to motivate people and get them to equate his organization with that of the Apostle Paul's. This was done indirectly and yet anyone who was around for any length of time got the hint. I do not remember a time when VPW deterred us from claiming his teachings and ministry saved our lives. IMO, rather than let that go on, he should have corrected this thinking and directed us to say God saved our lives, not him or his organization.

I agree. It's mortifying (understatement) to admit I followed such a person...

...."biblical research" became wierwille-endorsed interpretations of scripture." I think there is plenty of evidence to show this did not "become;" it was from the start...

Fantastic list, Geisha779. Thanks for adding this insighful information. It is an important distinction to repeat...that faith and education are distinctly different, and as far as reading is concerned, there is no end. And as far as interpretations of what "faith" is, or what "Christianity" is, there is no end either it seems... As a friend of mine recently said, "Scholarship does not lead one to God. And one's faith does not justify unethical behavior especially when one is exploiting the minds and lives of young [or any aged] people." He said that in reference to many ill effects of TWI's and it offshoots' efforts to promote and indoctrinate their beliefs as The Truth. BTW - I'm currently reading, The Gutenberg Elegies - The Fate of Reading in the Electronic Age by Sven Birkerts. Let's hope reading lives on! Cheers!

oh well...he was just doing his job...

A little more of the story behind the making of the Aramaic Interlinear (not the Concordance published in Aug. 1985, but the Translation which came afterwards): I seem to be a good example of a practice often conducted at TWI: "being hired not on the basis of ability" but of commitment to the org. Invited to be on the research team from 1984-87, I came on board with no college degree, no formal training in research methods or languages of the texts, other than in-house Aramaic classes taught to the Way Corps and some Aramaic tasks I had helped with over the years. But to say I was competent to actually produce a translation of the N.T. is ridiculous. When Joe Wise, who WAS competent and had earned his degree from the Univ. of Chicago in Near Eastern Studies, and who was responsible for the translation was fired from that task in 1986 with the reason being "too academic," I went to W@lter Cum@ins and asked about this, greatly dismayed and upset about this out-of-nowhere decision (this is an understatement). W. Cum@ins said it was LCM's "order." I asked who would finish it! He then looked at me and in complete seriousness said, "I was thinking you could finish it." After I recovered my composure from a hearty laugh, I realized he was not laughing. I had to explain I did not have the expertise to handle such a task, I had no training in such a complicated undertaking as translating! The odd and shocking thing was, W. Cum@ins had known me since 1970 and was very familiar with my skill level. It seems that competency was not always favored over assumed loyalty to TWI. After I resigned, another Corps grad came in off the field to finish the interlinear. Today, he continues VPW's research methods and teachings, etc. and runs a TWI offshoot in the D.C. area...

All of the above posts contain very good advice, in my view. This discussion is very important for a lot of people. Tazia, I could not agree more that offshoot groups cannot provide the breathing space many people need to escape "TWI-think." You mentioned one of the major ways I also conducted my post-TWI journey of growth - education, including work by Bart Erhman. Thinking back on what I needed most during my first few months after leaving TWI, I see I primarily needed someone to just listen to me. I needed a safe place to speak my mind about what happened to me and why I left, etc. In 1987 (ancient times before the internet), I had only a couple of people I trusted with my heart, and they were geographically far from me. Counselors were pretty in the dark about cult like fundamentalists groups then, although there was one group called Fundamentalists Anonymous but I didn't contact them. I trusted few people. I for sure knew an TWI offshoot group was not my remedy (the first big one was starting up and run by John Lynn, etc.) Why? Because they weren't addressing the reasons why I left (research related.) I'd just add this note to those thinking of leaving or fresh out - Give yourself a chance to be alone with your thoughts, go for long walks, and if you are inclined, keep a journal to sort out those thoughts, too. Your time alone with the Creator, no matter what you call it or don't call it, is your own. Don't think for a minute that our spiritual, intellectual, and emotional lives are not our own to cherish - they are. Luckily we still live in a country that offers a way to enjoy these freedoms. Lastly, I'll offer this quote that, although gloomy-sounding, may shed light on this topic: "We do not receive wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can make for us, which no one else can spare us." Marcel Proust Peace and best wishes, Charlene Lamy (Bishop) Edge Former Way Corps 2

Sounds like a TWI carry over to me, too. I am a prime example of this "being hired not on the basis of ability" but of commitment to the org. Invited to be on the research team from 1984-87, I came on board with no college degree, no formal training in research methods or languages of the texts, other than in-house Aramaic classes taught to the Way Corps and some Aramaic tasks I had helped with over the years. But to say I was competent to actually produce a translation of the N.T. is ridiculous. When Joe Wise, who WAS competent and had earned his degree from the Univ. of Chicago in Near Eastern Studies, was fired from that task in 1986 with the reason being "too academic," I went to W@lter Cum@ins and asked about this, greatly dismayed and upset about this out-of-nowhere decision (this is an understatement). W. Cum@ins looked at me and in complete seriousness said, "I was thinking you could finish it." After I recovered my composure from a hearty laugh, I realized he was not laughing. I had to explain I did not have the expertise to handle such a task, I had no training in such a complicated undertaking of translating! The odd and shocking thing was, W. Cum@ins had known me since 1970 and was very familiar with my skill level. It seems that competency was not always favored over assumed loyalty to TWI. After I resigned, another Corps grad came in off the field to finish the interlinear. Today, he continues VPW's research methods, etc. and runs a TWI offshoot in the D.C. area...

Thanks again to taxicab for providing the link to the Rachel Maddow report, which includes an interview with the author of, Crazy for God. It speaks to a major problem in this country - as I see it - of overzealous evangelizing and often reckless and offensive application of Bible verses to current-day events. This sort of interpretation denies the historical context of the verses and drags them into the 21st century, which in my view, is inappropriate. Another example appeared in the newspaper, USA Today, this past Monday, Oct. 12, 2009, on page 11A by Tom Krattenmaker (yeah, I collect such articles) titled, "And I'd like to thank God Almighty." It covers the story of Tim Tebow's promotion of his brand of Christianity to the point of disrespecting other players' (and anyone else's) beliefs. "Tebow does his missionary trips to the Philippines under the auspices of his father's Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association. The Tebow organization espouses a far-right theology. Its bottom line: Only those who assent to its version of Christianity will avoid eternal punishment. The ministry boldy declares, 'We reject the modern ecumenical movement.'" Unfortunately, until more Christians become aware of the history of own their religion (including an understanding of the multitude of beliefs floated in the first couple of centuries after the reports of Jesus's death and resurrection) and how these various Christ-focused movements influenced each other, this sort of religious bigotry will continue. It's the stuff "Holy wars" were/are made of. It's the grist for dividing humanity, not uniting or comforting people. Plenty of information is available. Public libraries are a good place to start. And it wouldn't hurt to become a little more educated about other religions, too. We might be surprised at what things they have in common. I also say let's pay more attention to making our behaviors more productive and caring of others and be less concerned about promoting many "beliefs" we can never prove one way or another anyway, no matter what our religion - or lack of it - might be. Cheers and enjoy your day. It's a gift to be alive, isn't it?

Okay, mstar1, do you want to bring the coat hangers? George, the marshmellows? Bramble the graham crackers? I'll bring the Hershey bars...

Hi everyone, This is Charlene (Bishop) Edge, former Research Team member 1984-1986 (Aramaic projects). The discussion Skyrider cites can be found at this GSC topic, "what scripture refers to" at: VPW research methods

Dear Minicorpse, I, too, thank you for writing your story here and am deeply saddened by what happened to you by people who claimed to love you. You are brave. I admire you and cheer you on in your recovery! Charlene a.k.a. Penworks here at GSC

Today I can add another name of a contributor to the work on the Aramaic Concordance: Gertrude Paulson. 8th Corps graduate.

Dear JT, Thanks for your comment. I'm glad you enjoy using the Interlinear, although I think we're talking about two different publications. You are referring to the Interlinear, I'm talking about the Concordance. The Concordance was not the translation of the N.T. but the other one-book publication that came out in 1985 several years before the line-by-line Interlinear translation that you have in several volumes. It's like Strong's or Young's Concordance that lists words, their definition, and where they appear in the text. There's a companion volumne that is English to Syriac (Aramaic) that we also produced that would help people use the Concordance. Now, the translation that appears in the Interlinear you have began in full force after the Concordance came out in August 1985. Joe Wise did all the translation for it except of the Book of Revelation. I only helped in minor ways by checking and editing a little bit. So why did he stop at the Book of Revelation in the translation for the Interlinear? In March 1986 LCM told Walter Cummins to tell Joe he must discontinue working on the project; that as of August 1986 he would no longer have a job at HQ because he was "too academic." At the time, the ministry was in an uproar after Chris Geer read his Passing of the Patriarch in April and everything was being - how would you say - challenged? In my opinion, this was a terrible mistake. Keep in mind, this is my view of what happened. But I was in the research dept. from Aug 1984- Aug 1986 and worked on this project. When Joe had to leave in August 1986, I resigned from research. This is a long story I do not plan to write on this web site. Suffice it to say, another Corps grad was brought on staff to finish the translation for the Interlinear. I personally do not know whether that person made any changes to the translation that Joe had already written. So the lawsuit cited at the beginning of this post that TWI is bringing against the group in Texas asserts that they stole the translation (the one you have in several volumes) that we originally worked on. What that final translation that was published contains exactly, I do not know because I was not there to see whether the other Corps person who came after us changed Joe's translation or not. And I do not have a copy of Joe's original translation. Hope this clarifies things for you. Contact me any time.

Editorial comment on my original post's comments on the first page: I covered many topics in that post. Reviewing it now, it's clear I covered too many. I failed to explain each one enough. Please keep in mind I do not always do my best writing when I'm addressing emotionally charged topics, so in retrospect I'd try and not to come off so snippy in some of my remarks. I apologize for the tone of it in some places, but that does not mean I do not stand by my opinions or my views. Karen Armstrong said something that I try to keep in mind when I speak or write, but I am guilty of doing it over and over. She said something like, "Some people would rather be right than compassionate." I do not want to be one of those people. My hope is to become a person who can do both at the same time. It ain't always easy. Cheers, Charlene L. Edge a.k.a. Penworks ps - Today, in the thread "A New Lawsuit" I gave my name and will from now on.

I'm writing this additional bit to clarify what I said above. First, I'd like to say my name is Charlene Edge. While in The Way, my maiden name was Charlene Lamy; my married name was Charlene Bishop. I graduated from the Second Way Corps in 1973. Credits: In the above post, I did not state the names of those who worked on the this Concordance because I did not feel comfortable doing so. My reason was NOT because they are trying to hide their identities or are not proud of their work. On the contrary! It is a work to be proud of! I simply did not have their consent on hand to name them. First, many of us know that Bernita Jess began the Aramaic/Syriac work for The Way in the early 1970s. Over the years, beginning in 1972 while in the Way Corps when VPW assigned me to work with Bernita, I began to help her in minor ways. As the Corps groups grew in numbers, so did Bernita's helpers. The Concordance published in August 1985. By this time, the primary person responsible for bringing this Concordance to completion was Joe Wise, an 8th Way Corps graduate. He told me I could release his name here. Joe earned his Masters Degree in Near Eastern Studies from the University of Chicago, gaining this specific academic training in order to work on the Aramaic/Syriac projects at The Way International. An article came out in The Way Magazine, July/August 1985 that describes the project and states the names of contributors. Frankly, it was painful to find out that so many people, both in and out of The Way, do not know who is responsible for that research publication other than the fact that The Way International published it. To the best of my remembrance, The Way ministry put no names on their book publications other than VPW's or Walter Cummins's, at least while I was there. In the front matter of the Concordance, it simply states, "Edited by The Way International Research Team." Since members of the team changed over the years, no one would know which members did the work. A little more background: About a year before its publication, Bernita had some family issues that took her away from the project for awhile, namely the unfortunate death of her husband, George Jess. Then Joe Wise, because of his academic training and ability, assumed the leading role. I hope this helps the discussion. You can contact me through my profile on this web site if you have any further questions. Cheers! Charlene a.k.a. Penworks

Wow.

Wow.

Since 1987.