penworks

Yes, I agree that it is highly likely he didn't want his ministry to go on without him and so in the PoP tirade, he said it was aleady contaminated even before he died, etc. My post, which I guess I didn't make too clear, was really more about questioning whether we can say the "next generation" has woken up; in my view many have NOT. They are buying into the TWI wannabee groups, repeating the same dogmas VP propounded, etc. Granted, as Skyrider shared, his kids don't, and my daughter certainly does not, but many of her peers do. They took PFAL when they were 12 years old in the mid 1980s, right around the time we left TWI, and PFAL, VPW and the cliche lifestyle still hold sway over them. They seek out youth groups and camps and weekend "advances" run by spinoff groups to reinforce the old TWI-based Bible rhetoric and cliched thinking. These groups are under the direction of people from my generation (I guess I would be the first generation since I took PFAL in Dec. 1970 at ECU). Many spinoffs are longtime Corps grads who are, in my view, still deluded about VP being the man of God when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary but they choose to either stay ignorant of it or deny it outright. I find that irresponsible and harmful beyond words. We're supposed to be the adults and figure out how to guide our kids, yet my peers seem to have dropped the ball by not examining the system we were in and not listening to "the other side of the story" that is told in places like this web site (not that there really are any except for a few blogs). Worse than that in my opinion, is that they're actively PROMOTING the dogmas, directly or indirectly, by continuing to indoctrinate their own kids (and other's kids), who aren't even kids anymore, they are 30 years old! I say shame on them. On top of that, some of my generation who left TWI but just went on to other things in their lives and never tried to confront their TWI experience and sort it out have another set of problems of their own making. They did not talk to their kids (now grown up) about TWI nor explain the dangers of it or encourage their kids to get educated about cults, fundamentalism, etc. so that their kids get easily sucked into a TWI offshoot and these parents shake their heads and wonder why! I know, I've talked with them. Amazing and very sad...some of their kids, now self-righteous spinoff believers think their own parents who left TWI are the unbelievers! This is messed up beyond words. Anyhow, my point is that I'm not sure that the cult is dying out...granted, it's slightly revised in these offshoots, but its essence still thrives in them. It's sickening to me and I hold the parents (my generation) responsible for not admitting the known facts of VPW's life, twisted research, and abuse of power. Many have not disassociated themselves with the fanatic fundamentalist attitudes, the propaganda about The Bible, and the non-civil discourse (to say the least) that these groups promote. One reason for the failure of some parents to give up TWI dogma, I've been told, is the psychological bonding that went on between VP and his "girls," girls he took advantage of sexually long ago, some of whom are now mothers of grown up kids. That bond created a loyalty to VP and "the Word" he taught that is difficult to break, for some women (obviously not the ones willing to speak out against it). But that is another can of worms for another topic... Enjoy your day!

Interesting...could you, would you elaborate a little more on this idea?

I wonder how they maintain the "accuracy" of The Word as they translate TWI teachings into their language?

While I tend to agree with most of this, I can't help but wonder how this line of thinking accounts for the many (many, many, and more popping up every day that I've seen on the web) offshoots or spin-off TWI wannabees. Many of my daughter's generation (in their 30s now) revere Wierwille as their father in the Word, a man they never knew as even young teenagers, since he died in 1985. They revere the leaders of these spin-offs just a surely as we (I should speak for myself) revered VPW as "the man of God" and they continue to revere the dogmas (no matter how slightly revised or re-worded it is) and propaganda about the Bible as if it is The Word of God, just as their parents did. Makes me wonder...

Well put, I have to say the same things are in my memory banks, too!

You make a good observation, and in my view, it aptly addresses part of the overall setup of the Way, with the Way Corps in particular. I was in that program 1971-73. VPW used to tell us to counter any complaints from our parents about the intensity of our training and limitations on visits home by likening our isolation to that of boot camp for the military...we were to ask our parents what was the difference? Would they complain if we couldn't come home for family events while in training in the Marines or Navy or any other branch of the military? No, was the assumed answer. VPW gave us further info to try and use to intimidate our parents - that they should be happy we were in training to serve God and his people (of course VP was just using us to further his cause), and that is a much more important mission than any earthly cause like serving our country; missing family events like weddings, etc. shouldn't bother our folks! I have to tell you I never repeated that cr*p to my father. It just wasn’t my style. And I got away with going to my father's wedding, too, because D*l D*ncan, my Corps coordinator, gave me permission to fly up to New England for that event. I never asked VP directly for permission, only D*l. But when VP found out I was away for the wedding, D*l got in trouble and took the heat for it. I was so thankful for D*l’s stepping in; he had known it was important for me to be there for my dad since my mother had died three years earlier and my father had found happiness that I needed to share in, too. Although there are many incidents when D*l and other Corps coordinators made screwed up decisions for people’s lives, for me this is a good one to be remembered...

Last night I came across the movie, Inherit the Wind, which I’ve seen before, showing on the Turner Classic Movies channel and found myself loving it even more than I did first time I watched it. Here are some summaries about the plot, which I think ties into the topic of this thread about where we got the idea that truth can be found only in the Bible. Netflix summary from their web site: Spencer Tracy (in one of his best roles) as lawyer Henry Drummond and Fredric March as Matthew Harrison Brady square off as opposing attorneys in this blistering courtroom drama about the famed 1930s "Scopes Monkey Trial," where a Tennessee teacher was taken to task for teaching Darwinism in the schoolroom. Song-and-dance man Gene Kelly co-stars as newspaper reporter H.L. Mencken And from Inherit the Wind - film plot summary Inherit the Wind (1960) portrays, in partly fictionalized form, the famous and dramatic courtroom "Monkey Trial" battle (in the sultry summer of 1925 in Dayton, Tennessee) between two famous lawyers (Clarence Darrow and William Jennings Bryan) who volunteered to heatedly argue both sides of the case (over 12 days, including two weekends). Its story centers around the issue of evolution vs. creationism, in the prosecution of 24 year-old Dayton High School mathematics teacher and sports coach - and substitute science teacher - John T. Scopes for violating state law (the 1925 Butler Act) by teaching the Darwin's theory of evolution in a state-funded school. The film's title was taken from the Biblical book of Proverbs 11:29: "He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind."

So, it seems to me that TWI's propaganda leads to bibliolatry. How do the rest of you feel about that connection?

Hi everyone, These last few posts are especially helpful and fabulous to me...sure appreciate the participation! Just a quick update on the content of the original article, where I said the following: During the past few years I’ve read many comments from others who also left TWI. I’ve read them not only here at GSC, but at web sites of former Way followers who started offshoot groups, and at the Way Corps web site open to Corps grads. While reading, I've noticed a general theme cropping up in a number of them: a wish for "the old TWI days," and more importantly, a desire to re-create them. Because my interest lies in research and I see nostalgia for it in many people’s comments, I focus on that aspect of the “old TWI days” in this article. As of last Thursday, Jan. 14, I can no longer speak from personal experience about the Way Corps site, which I referred to above. That day I deleted my profile page, voluntarily removing myself from the site. For further info on the site, interested parties would need to contact someone else who has a page there. Cheers!

I could not agree more. And IMO, from my experiences in TWI, I know VPW held the same sort of interpretation of the world...this makes me sick and sick that I was ever associated with TWI.

Since I'm preoccupied with research issues, I figured I'd check the current TWI web site research page just to see whether or not they've changed their approach to the Bible and claims of "knowing how to find the accuracy of the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts." IMO, what they're currently doing is the same thing VPW promoted from when I was involved back in 1970-87. I'd be curious about what the "wrong doctrines" are that they've changed...it seems to me VPW made a doctrine out of his methodology, but I could be wrong... TWI Biblical Research 2010

...and ...Pg. 104 VPW: “If the Word can be broken at any one place, The Word crumbles from Genesis to Revelation. Either the whole Bible is God’s Word from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 or none of it is God’s Word.” So, here he clearly states the Bible is God’s Word. He does not qualify the Bible by saying “in the original texts” of the Bible, nor does he say which Bible, although he uses the KJV as his text for the class so by implication accepts the canon used in that version.

Hi there, George. Well, I've been re-reading some of these posts and thought you might get a kick out of this ection of PFAL that I've located for you: PFAL BOOK pg. 103 (1971 edition) "By deductive logic, if God is perfect, then the logos, Jesus Christ, has to be perfect. If God is perfect and Christ is perfect and The Word is given as holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, then God’s Word must be perfect also. God is perfect, so Jesus Christ is perfect, so the revealed Word of God is perfect. Consequently the words which make up The Word must also be perfect. This is why if any other word had been used than the preposition pros in John 1:1 and 2 the whole Bible would fall to pieces because of imperfect usage of words. To have a perfect Word, the words must be perfect and the order of the words must be perfect. ...God is perfect, The Word is perfect, and therefore The Word means what it says, and says what it means. God has a purpose for everything He says, where He says it, why He says it, how He says it, to whom He says it, and when He says it." END OF PFAL BOOK QUOTE. I suspect most of us are aware of the endless problems this leads to when dealing with various translations and versions... Anyhow, just thought I'd add this here for the record. Cheers!

Ditto. Cheers to taking our chances...

Original question of this thread:...”but something was bothering me and it just came clear to me today and it is the idea that the only truth is in the bible. really? that's a pretty stupid way of thinking once i look at it in the light of day. and how'd i get to thinking like that? i think it started with the idea that "all things that pertain unto life and godliness are contained herein" or whatever the way international said about the bible. again, really?” Waysider reminds us: PFAL It wasn't just a class. It was indoctrination into fundamentalism. From what I've figured out, The Way’s promoting the idea that the only source for truth is the Bible comes from a conservative segment in Protestantism, like Waysider points out, called the Fundamentalist movement, and there are lots of groups especially, it seems, in the USA. The idea has a fancy Latin name, sola scriptura, and was the rallying cry of the Protestants when they broke away from the Catholic Church with Martin Luther leading the cause. Although I usually refrain from using Wikipedia as a source, it’s not a bad start here...See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura For me, being raised a Catholic in the 1950s and 1960s, I was immersed in a religious tradition that mixed church dogma AND the Bible as their sources for truth, so not until I got into Young Life in high school (a Bible-waving, born-again-proclaiming, Good News for Modern Man N.T. version reading segment of the Jesus movement alive in the 1970s and still going on today) did the emphasis in my fledgling kindergarden style theological training shift to scripture as the only place for truth to be found (which, of course ignores the long history of the way of thinking that claims there is only ONE truth, but that’s another topic for another rainy day – it’s raining here in Winter Park, Florida right now and they say it might turn to snow! Yippee...). Anyway, for me, sitting through the indoctrination class, PFAL, as Waysider reminds us, was not only an experience of getting Wierwille’s theology (plagiarized as it is) hammered into my mind, but was also an indoctrination into the broader category of thinking which is called Fundamentalism which has as one of its major cornerstones the idea you are addressing: that the Bible is the only source for truth. Along with inerrancy, millennialism, and evangelizing, it feels (to put it mildly) that the Bible should be mankind’s only rule of faith and practice. Fundamentalism is the extremely conservative segment of Protestantism that essentially fights against modernism (i.e. evolution and other scientific issues), textual criticism and other approaches to understanding what the Bible is that do not buy into “the accuracy of The Word,” for instance, or that it was dictated by God to the writers. It is mission-oriented and from what I’ve seen, rejects the validity of any other religions as avenues for “reaching God.” This movement started in earnest in America during the 1920s when the clash between conservative Protestants and Darwinism hit the country. For a book on the history of American Fundamentalism, check out, Fundamentalism and American Culture, by George M. Mardsen (Oxford Univ. Press 2006). It’s a long read and I haven’t read all the chapters, but from what I’ve read, I think it is a good source. See what you think. He is a professor of history at the University of Notre Dame and is a Christian historian. I think he does a good job presenting the material about all the different ingredients that went into the recipe for American Fundamentalism. If you visit Amazon online, for instance, you can find LOTS of books and resources that cover Christian Fundamentalism. Or wander around the public library, which I what I did in 1987 when I left TWI and started to try and understand what the heck happened. A few I’ve read on the topic include these, but I’d like to find a few others that are good, too, so if anyone here knows any, please tell me: James Barr’s book, Fundamentalism, which I quoted in the “Nostalia..” article posted on the front page here. Published in Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1978. Sandeen, Ernest R. The Roots of Fundamentalism. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press. 1970. Clabaugh, Gary K. Thunder on the Right. Chicago: Nelson-Hall Company. 1974. Armstrong, Karen. The Battle for God, A History of Fundamentalism. The Ballantine Publishing Group. 2000.

For those of you reading this who may not be familiar with what Geisha is referring to by that “Charter,” here is the info (I find it inspiring and good) from: Charter for Compassion The principle of compassion lies at the heart of all religious, ethical and spiritual traditions, calling us always to treat all others as we wish to be treated ourselves. Compassion impels us to work tirelessly to alleviate the suffering of our fellow creatures, to dethrone ourselves from the centre of our world and put another there, and to honour the inviolable sanctity of every single human being, treating everybody, without exception, with absolute justice, equity and respect. It is also necessary in both public and private life to refrain consistently and empathically from inflicting pain. To act or speak violently out of spite, chauvinism, or self-interest, to impoverish, exploit or deny basic rights to anybody, and to incite hatred by denigrating others—even our enemies—is a denial of our common humanity. We acknowledge that we have failed to live compassionately and that some have even increased the sum of human misery in the name of religion. We therefore call upon all men and women ~ to restore compassion to the centre of morality and religion ~ to return to the ancient principle that any interpretation of scripture that breeds violence, hatred or disdain is illegitimate ~ to ensure that youth are given accurate and respectful information about other traditions, religions and cultures ~ to encourage a positive appreciation of cultural and religious diversity ~ to cultivate an informed empathy with the suffering of all human beings—even those regarded as enemies. We urgently need to make compassion a clear, luminous and dynamic force in our polarized world. Rooted in a principled determination to transcend selfishness, compassion can break down political, dogmatic, ideological and religious boundaries. Born of our deep interdependence, compassion is essential to human relationships and to a fulfilled humanity. It is the path to enlightenment, and indispensible to the creation of a just economy and a peaceful global community.

I'm confident that G@r^ C^rt!$$ would, WC is a long story & still teaching VPW-based stuff, and BJ is still writing for The Way Mag...

Fantastic observation! Translation work takes the problems with the false notion (IMO) of inerrancy to another level and complicates the issue infinitely. Not only from the Biblical languages themselves into English, but then from English into another language. For instance, anyone who translated TWI teachings, i.e. the PFAL class and Holy Spirit book from English to Spanish or from English to French knew of the multitude of tricky issues involved. A word in one language can have a “range of meaning” in another. Some people working on these projects were in deep denial about the problems or else were willing to admit knew they could not back up VPW’s theology or claim of an inerrant Bible in the process of translating. Did anyone here at GSC work on translation projects or know of anyone who did? I do, although I decline to give names here. They struggled in silence mostly and bore the brunt of VPW’s rantings about not maintaining the “accuracy” of “The Word” like they should, etc. Their task was impossible. Finally, they left, too.

As a newcomer to the Bible, as you say, I think you might get something out of reading, The Bible, A Biography,by Karen Armstrong. It’s a good intro to what the Bible is and where it came from. Here’s a quote from the inside flap of the paper cover: “She analyzes the climate in which oral history turned into written scripture, how this scripture was collected into one work, and how it became accepted as Christianity’s sacred text. She explores how scripture came to be read for the information it imparted and how, in the nineteenth century, challenges to the historical accuracy of the Bible caused as much concern as Darwin’s theory of evolution.” Visit: Karen Armstrong's books about history of religion

I was one of those, too.

Abilities and talents were NOT encouraged for any other reason but to serve Wierwille's goals, clothed in the verbiage that they were "moving The Word." Only there WAS NOT ANY WORD only VP's dogmas. I agree. We were told we must carry VP's "heart for the Word and the ministry" to the world because he was only one man and could not do it all himself. Basically, we were to be PFAL puppets, etc.

Here's another TWI offshoot site, which is new to me, but others might know of it: Faithful Stewards fellowship, Pres. Jim Melt*n

Because I viewed him as the man of God for this day and time (geezz...) and because of that, I mis-gave thanks to him rather than to God, I am ashamed to report that I said the following, which was quoted in the Way Magazine, Jan/Feb 1984: "...He showed me the Word living, and I owe my life to this ministry."

Geisha, In answer to your question, "So, what are we going to do? Legislate theology we don't like? It would just be replaced with something else." I have a few ideas, and I know that as high as these goals might be, I think we might be able to make a good stab at some of them – 1) Provide the other side of “the story,” for instance here at GSC in regards to TWI. 2) Educate ourselves about the history of the belief systems we hold and try to understand the nature of our beliefs. Ask good questions. 3) Raise awareness of the divisiveness and destructive tendencies of these groups: TWI, offshoots, and similar cults/religions. 4) Speak out and say that any interpretation of scripture that breeds violence, hatred or disdain is illegitimate. 5) Do our best to give the next generation respectful and good information about other traditions, religions and cultures. 6) Do our small part to encourage a positive appreciation of cultural and religious diversity. 7) Think globally and act locally. As Ghandi said, “Be the change you want to see in the world.” 8) Tell our own stories. If we don’t, someone else will. Stories carry valuable lessons others can relate to. Some of these ideas are my own; some are included in the recent Charter for Compassion: http://charterforcompassion.org/

Maybe this qualifies as a relic, maybe not: In 1976, either for the Way's anniversary on Oct. 3 or for VP's b/day Dec. 31, we of the 2nd Corps (back in for another year of indoctrination) pooled our pennies and bought VP a special gift to memorialize the snow job – oh I mean the moment when God told him He would teach him the Word like it hadn't been known since the first century -- I can't believe we did this but we bought the window, frame and glass and everything, off the building in Payne, Ohio - the famous window he looked out of and "...it was snowing so hard I couldn't see those gas pumps right there." - The Way Living in Love, Elena Whiteside, pg. 181. As far as I know it was put in the WOW Auditorium years later. Maybe it is still there... Good grief!