penworks

Yes, thanks. In this morning's Los Angeles Times, an timely article about Facebook was published: http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-0428-senators-facebook-m,0,1985749.story?track=rss

Her use of Proverbs 16:17 out of context to apply to TWI is at the very least sickening to me. That's a good example of TWI's use of the Bible to their benefit. IMO, this is Bible abuse.

Good point. From my perusings about the history of Christianity, this sort of thinking seems pervasive in many sects, especially evangelical ones (and many other religions and various sorts of groups.) That's how they define their "tribe" and function. Without boundaries, what's the point of having any group (or religion) really? You're either in or out. To me, though, attaching the idea that the group is God's is even more specifically narrow and exclusive and insideous. It's a way to control people in an abusive pyschological way. In TWI, I think the idea that we were teaching "the rightly divided Word" implied we were teaching what God wanted known. Coupled with VP's "snow" claim, it made sense we were God's ministry. Of course, it was a twisted sort of sense, one based on erroneous premises. For instance, I remember a youth advance at ECU in Greenville, NC in the spring of 1971. Ironically, this event was held in a church across Fifth Street from The Way Home owned by The Way Inc. Joh* Ly*n was the limb (state) leader at the time. On a paper banner hanging above the stage was the advance's theme: "Addicted to the ministry of the saints," based on I Corinthians 16:15, "I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints." VP taught at that advance, as well as some of the First Way Corps. Clearly, this theme was used to fire up our commitment to VP's cult, there was no doubt about it. And the message was more than subliminal that the "ministry of the saints" was The Way's outreach system. In my view, The Way was equated with "the ministry" whenever we read those words in the Bible. Most of the time this was implied, not spoken outright. Although I bet if I searched some old Way Mags and articles by VP in his "By The Way" articles published in the St. Marys Leader newspaper, I could find some doozy quotes that would illustrate this issue. Some of you probably remember the collateral reading called, The First Century Church in the Twentieth, which sent the message: we were to immitate the Book of Acts in this century, in this culture, period. This would make us the ministry of God in this day and time. From what I've read and observed, this thinking is part of a larger kind found in many groups under the umbrella of fundamentalism. So to me, this thinking has its roots with VP, it's not a new tag line dreamed up by Rosie or anyone other than VP himself.

I agree. In my view it would be redundant to have a FB page for GSC. Besides, if you're like me and read up about FB, you know there are plenty of privacy, security, etc. issues with it. I deactivated my page there last Dec. - my personal choice. Has anyone else here read Jaron Lanier's recent book, You Are Not a Gadget? Very thought-provoking along these lines. He coined the phrase and is the "father" of virtual reality. BTW - It is interesting that without having an active FB account, I can still access FB pages from links which are posted here or from other sources who send me links to FB pages...so much for security...if however I try to go directly to the FB main page, though, I have to sign in, which I cannot do at present. Go figure...

Here's a strange one linked from Bri*n Bl*ss's page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/SIT-Speaking-in-Tongues/140753044222

Not that I recall (but maybe it did), although in TWI verses like II Corinthians 6:14 were used to promoted that idea: Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers... Naturally, the unbelievers usually were identifed as people not born again (according to Rom. 10:9, 10), but in practice they were those outside the TWI belief system.

Does anyone know who is the administrator of this FB group?

Me, too.

Thank you.

Maybe I've misunderstood a few things here (wouldn't be the first time). I thought your Bible was a translation from the Aramaic (the P-e-s-h-i-t-t-a). If so, how come you put your translation for the Aramaic in footnotes?

James, Would you mind telling us how you translated Matt. 27:46 and why you might have decided on your translation of that verse? It reads like this in the KJV: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Thanks, Pen

Well, this is an interesting point and has been hashed out on other threads here. Maybe what I have to say doesn't fit in here, maybe it belongs in the Doctrinal forum, who knows? Anyway, as you say, verses contained in the Bible, like VP's favorite II Timothy 3:16, mentions "doctrine," but I think it's important to remember that this is a verse within a particular book, II Timothy, and that book is within a larger book we've called The Bible. II Timothy does not say anything about "The Bible" nor name any particular books of the Bible in that verse. So it doesn't tell us there what "doctrine" is referring to. The people that letter was written to probably had a good idea, though, and at the time I suspect it referred to what to believe about Jesus. IMO, VP read into the text (applied his own interpretation) when he said that the word "doctrine" referred to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. This is different than saying what the word "doctrine" means. Yes, it may mean "right belief" but it doesn't say what that belief is supposed to be. This is the sort of thinking I call "lumpy thinking." He quoted one verse here another there, and applied whatever it said to the whole lump called The Bible. This violated one of his own principles of research, namely taking things out of context. I think it is improbable that any of the writers of any of these books in the Bible could have said anything about the whole lump. The books were collected and put together in various combinations (canons) after they were written. For me it's been important to realize that Bibles are anthologies and we have various combinations of different books that came to be considered Scripture. I think it's common sense to point out that each book was written in its own location and time period, etc. and not linked to the other books until much later. In some cases, some writers of some of those documents didn't even know other books existed or would be written. IMO, this is an area that shows how ignorant we were kept about the history of the text, etc. This is a major field to know about if we're going to talk about doctrine, IMO. For me, it required a radical shift in how I thought about the Bible. Anyway, so we know that there are verses that contain the word "doctrine", for instance, but I haven't seen where "doctrine" is defined as "these 66 books of The Bible." So we ask what is doctrine? Here's one definition: Definition of doctrine. So, just some food for thought...perhaps it is of some use...if not, file it in file #13. Cheers, Pen

This is astonishing. A post was made about this lawsuit awhile ago: Check here: Lawsuit about Way's Aramaic Interlinear

A post was made about this lawsuit awhile ago: Check here: Lawsuit about Way's Aramaic Interlinear

If you click here, an edited version is in print. BTW his reference to "Aramaic" near the end is quick and vague with little explanation. Eli Eli in print

For those interested, Ken Br*wn's response to this can be found here: Ken Brown's response

I remember this account. VP told us about all this during our in-rez 1971-73. In our Corps there was one daughter of a Piqua couple who no longer stood with VP, but she had latched onto the ministry herself, having heard the PFAL tapes growing up. Somehow she got convinced she should go in the Corps after she finished college and she did... she's still in TWI today.

Perhaps it's time for a CRIME report review. Although this is an old thread, I believe it relates to this topic. It might help any innies sitting on the fence... Lawsuit

I think this plays a major role in denial of any sort. I know it did for me before I came to terms with the issues I faced leading up to my decision to quit the research team. Breaking denial requires change and sometimes that means EXTENSIVE changes in one's life. Plus I had to admit I'd been fooled, I'd kept my head in the sand, I had been duped due to my ignorance, etc. That's a bitter pill to swallow... Unless and until a person faces an issue that affects them PERSONALLY so that they come to a cross roads and have to choose to do something to eleviate the pain they face, it may not be possible for them to break away. For instance, I remember a conversation I had in 1986 with someone I worked with who now is one of the top VPs and teaches part of the new class at HQ. I thought he was a good guy and would be willing to call a spade a spade. So when I tried to explain why I was resigning from research, why I thought LCM had MAJOR problems, that VP's research had holes in it (he knew this already), etc., he looked at me as if I were possessed but at least was polite about it. He said, "I need some time to think about this." He ended up staying at HQ and now he's rewarded with his big job - apparently nothing happened that affected him very personally so all I can imagine is that he must have rationalized the abuses of VPW and LCM somehow. Humans have convenient ways of doing that. I wonder whether he ever thinks about that conversation...maybe he's reading this now...I hold him partly responsible for perpetuating the cult - he could have opted out, he was smart, he was kind-hearted. Now I think he's let himself be blinded and he has been used. Sometimes some people are willing to put up with a lot of human failures, crimes, and abuses if they think what they're teaching - the doctrine - is THE TRUTH. In my view, there is no "Truth" worth that price.

In case anyone is wondering, here are two posts I believe Ken is referencing, although he didn't state which post it is - BTW I am not trying to represent him: Posts #238 and 240 on the following page. http://www.greasespo...s/page__st__220

Yeah, but it was sort of funny. I had started going back to college anyhow, so the mindless tasks for part of the day were welcome...

Hi Ken, If you're referring to anything I may have said, I did not intend to be unkind. If my words came across that way, I apologize. For those of you reading here, Ken and I worked together in the research room at HQ from 1984-86. Charlene

Here's a bit on the topic of using arts for TWI outreach: Way Mag July/Aug 81, Pg. 21 God's Word Moves Out Through the Arts by Elena Whiteside "The goal of the Word in Fine Arts is to preserve and retain the knowledge of the Mystery by ingraining it in the arts – the arts having the greatest potential of outreach of all human activities-thus contributing to the move of God's Word over the world."

Guess some of us left shedding the belief system which included this "protection of the household of faith," but I imagine it would be unnerving for some. It certainly was a habit ingrained due to the heavy indoctrination over so many years. I remember thinking, though, as I resigned from research (1986) that I would be my own "cause" from then on and invest my money in my education and family. If I could financially help anyone else I met, great. For a variety of reasons, I could not bring myself to give a nickel to anyone saying they taught anything about God.

I wonder whether they still have the car wash? After I resigned from research in 1986, I was put on the Multi-services team and washed cars for awhile. I remember one day Rosie and Donna returned from a shopping trip in Dayton (or somewhere nearby) and their car was brought in. It was spotless, I remember, but we had to clean it anyway... I vacuumed out the carpet in the back seat and thought how ironic all this was...cleaning a clean car...what a waste of time and effort...and a waste of the believers ABS.