penworks

Is this museum a literal according to usage or a figure of speech?

This is a shocking statement, although I don't doubt it for a variety of reasons. But I am startled into wanting to know whether there is any documentation on it. Pen

I had taken Wierwille's "snow story" as gospel truth, as confirmation of his special revelation, the one about God telling him He would teach him the Word like it had not been known since the first century if he would teach others. My belief in that revelation had created a blind spot, wiping out my ability to acknowledge the facts on the ground about Wierwille's errors. They were not errors. They were revelation.

I can verify these events, although I had been through the re-indoctrination year in 1976-77 with my second corps group after 3 years on the field. (more on this at another time).

These very revealing quotes are from a transcribed tape of VPW, 1973, teaching a small group at headquarters on the topic of his Way Tree structure for the organization: Pg. 6 "...when I wrote the book Receiving the Holy Spirit today, and I isolated myself for a week in the Marsh Hotel in Van Wert, all the talk all over the community was that Doctora and Mrs. Wierwille had split up." Pg. 7 "Now if he [the devil] gets to you, and you begin to doubt my honesty, my veracity, the truth with which we set the Word and the ministry, it [the Word] will never get around the world." Pg. 8 "You see the Adversary sure was after Cephas and Apollos and the rest, but really not after them. They were only stepping stones for him to get the Apostle Paul. That's all they were, stepping stones for the adversary to get to the Apostle Paul. It'd be the same as if the adversary can get through E*rl B8rton, through D88nie F*git, through J**nny T*&nsend, and if the adversary can get to them, then he is very close to touching me. Same trip." Pg. 11 "Denominations are the design of the adversary. That's right. You can't read me one in the book of Acts." Amazing, huh? Cheers! Pen

There are some things Rosie cannot sweep under the rug about the Wierwille years (ending in 1985 when he died) because too many of us know them and are speaking out. Anyonw interested in those years can find plenty about them here. And in books like Karl Kahler's and Kris Skegell's. In the 1970s we used to say, "Don't keep the faith. Spread it." I say, "Don't keep TWI secrets. Tell them."

You know, it's amazing we put up with it, but that we did (I should speak for myself) is an indication of the co-dependant relationship I had with Wierwille. I bought the snow story revelation which essentially made him infallible for all practical purposes and he knew I bought it. BTW - keeping the troops in line is a galaxy away from the publically stated intentions of TWI on their web site like this one, the bold words are my emphasis: "A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth".

RE: "Way back then.....twigs were short, succinct, and spot-on! " Not to be "negative," but that depended on who was running the fellowship. I also caution against saying they were "spot-on". Spot on with what? I guess I'm picky picky picky... Cheers.

Why are they at polar extremes? Is it that the 1994 and beyond followers naively THINK that the old farm days were somehow better?

Are "things" really that different in S.O.W.E.R.S.? Perhaps they are if you consider they have no research dept. but from their web site VPW the grandson looks as if he's copying the way corps program etc.

Feel free to contact me through this site, too. I'm open to answering questions and you may find my journey helpful. You can read it here on the front page. Affinity for Windows.

I agree. He ran the show. As Corps grads, we were to take "his heart" out on the field and run the ministry like he wanted. When we didn't, we heard about it!

Sometimes this book is still for sale at a low discount price on Amazon second-hand book sellers or elsewhere. Since I'm in the book, I have gotten copies because it shows a pretty good "before" snapshot of me, which is in striking contrast with the "new" me today. I even met someone in academia recently who said his parents had a copy of the book in their house. They weren't ever in twi, they were evangelicals of some sort and thought TWLIL was cool. Yikes.

Thank you for bringing out these points. Rebuilding a different life often looks like a demolition site. For awhile you look like a wreck (i should speak for myself) but the old life has to be torn down before a new life can be built. I think one of the worst, unloving things I used to believe while in twi was this: when a person left twi and ran into trouble of one sort or another in their efforts to rebuild their life, we would point fingers and say, "See, the devil is wrecking their life. That's what they get for leaving the household of believers." Then one day I was in that situation. Thankfully, I was able to rebuild. Some others I know have not been able to. For them, I mourn today (this week I heard another awful story of family members turning on each other in times of need because of some stupid vpw doctrine). Yes, "Virginia", there is a good life without twi. You can make it. Inspite of the holidays. Cheers!

Good point. Same reason there were grads from Cornell Univ. and Yale Univ. in my Corps group. No understanding of protestant fundamentalism and a real susceptiblity to VP's charisma. Etc. etc.

Thank you, John, for your story. Amazing. Such a small world...thanks for thinking critically while so many of us were not. The article you wrote on VP's copying J.E. Stiles book was a boon to me when I was given a copy of it in 1986. Cheers!

John, many thanks for the info. You are amazingly diligent about analyzing and exposing TWI. No doubt you've helped many of us here and others we'll never know about. I've always been curious about what motivated you to start researching TWI. If it's not too personal, do you care to tell us?

IMO this is one of the best reference books on the topic of "biblical research" if you are interested in the actual texts. Which some people call The Word. Ehrman is providing info to the public that has been circulated among scholars for years and years. If more people understood the history of the book we call The Bible, we might find a way to appreciate it for what it is, not what we wish it were... Cheers!

I have some documents I'll send you.

Thank you to everyone who has posted here to reveal (again) and summarize VP's underground sex ring so well I can't imagine how anyone can deny it existed. But some do... I was in the second corps 1971-73. The predatory nature of VP was underground to me because some of us were not targeted. We were in the dark about the victims until many years later...yes, we were blind, naive, stupid, distracted, indoctrinated with "the man of god" concept of VP, etc. etc. to realize what was going on around us. You see what you want to see.... I rack my brain on how I missed the red flags though. One guess is that during the Corps I was engaged and spent my extra time with my fiance. It has occurred to me that because my fiance's father was a popular minister in the Northeast who supported VP in the 1970s, VP stayed away from me for fear I might tell. Who knows...Hindsight is 20/20. But the main reason, I think, is that I viewed VP as the man of God, period. That image disallowed any other interpretation of him. Indoctrination for some of us worked too well. BTW - At that time, no autobiographies were required, that came later. Thankfully I was not a victim in my childhood. Granted, some of us had marital problems over the years (as I mentioned in Affinity for Windows) but never did I think any organized web of sex abuse or orgies (good grief), etc. were the cause of anyone's troubles. It wasn't until 1986 - a year after VP was dead, after the PoP was read, and after I resigned from the Research Dept. deciding to leave TWI - that a victim confided in me about the whole ugly, sickening, twisted mess. Then I talked with John S. about his adultry paper and read it just after he got fired at HQ. Then, the next year I learned about Kris Skedgell (author of Losing The Way). Over the years, the more I reflect on my past, the more the puzzle pieces begin to fit together and the red flags come back to haunt me... It's all so utterly sickening. What continues the sickness is the denial of so many former victims who don't see themselves that way. Some even support off-shoot groups that continue worshipping VP. I suspect some will never face the facts...the facts are too hideous, shameful, and painful. I know some women who have spent years and hundreds of dollars on therapy because of these activities. Some killed themselves. What will it take to close down TWI?

I have experienced this same kind of response. Not once has anyone, at least to my face, said I was crazy for what I did. Since I seek to understand the fundamentalist cult experience I had and share what I've learned, people appreciate what I have to say and sometimes ask to sit for hours and talk it over. It's as if I have been in a foreign country they'll never visit and they want to know about my travels and what I learned. Some have family members in cultish or fundamentalist groups and need help understanding them, so sometimes it turns out I'm sort of a translator of experience. Case in point: a friend expressed she could not see how the angry preachers on T.V. attract followers. I told her that it has to do with the world view you already hold. What you see and hear is filtered through that. I tried to explain that what I did was re-interpret the angry preachers in my group (VPW, LCM, etc. etc.) as being "bold in the Lord," although the content of what they said often was hateful. I didn't see it as hateful. I saw it as "speaking the truth." That seemed to help her "get it." Cheers.

I think you are right about this "ignore" them and their importance will deflate aspect of things. There's a good lesson in that. On the other hand, there's also a good lesson in speaking out against "evil" or abuse or fraud when you know about it. For that reason, I speak out. No matter if only a few or none listen. To me, it's part of making restitution for having been part of the propaganda machine and misleading people into thinking TWI's interpretation of the Bible was the "accuracy" of the Bible, among other things they taught.... My method of handling my past involvement is my own personal choice, and I don't mean to say everyone should speak out or write letters. I only suggest that each of us follow our own conscience on what to do, if anything, about our past involvement with the cult, what we know about its problems, how they relate to the broader society, what to say about these issues and where and when to speak or write I've had the chance to speak publically about my memoir, Affinity for Windows (posted here at GSC) and facilitate discussions about cults and fundamentalism, thereby raising awareness. Guess in my old age I'm finally becoming an activist of sorts...but that shoe is not a one size fits all. Cheers.

All sorts of issues in this thread...guess the one that pops out at me is this point raised about "proven ministry research" what I call "so-called research." It sounds so nice to say we just open our Bibles, concordances, lexicons, etc. and do word studies, but really, what good does that do your life? Besides, the writers of the Bible naturally used different vocabularies so wouldn't word studies be more appropriately done within each separate book and not across the entire N.T.? Here's something to chew on: The original New Testament, if TWI sticks to what it used to believe in the old days, was written in Aramaic, not Greek. (I don't happen to think so any more but they do). So why does TWI insist on doing word studies in Greek "to get back to the original"? (I'm messing with you now. This topic is far more complicated than this). If research is done the way TWI tells it, "the accuracy of The Word," would be evident to everyone if they follow the keys to research in PFAL, like it's a yellow brick road. THE right interpretation would be clear as day to all and everyone would end up at the wizard's house. Doesn't turn out that way. That was the naive hope of Martin Luther long ago who said who needs the Church telling us what the right interpretation of Scriptures is? We can do that for ourselves if we just learn to read and get a printed Bible in our hands. Voila. But that didn't work out so well. Lots of fights sprung up about what scriptures meant and how to "apply them to everyday life." For instance should we have water baptisms or not? (this was before a guy named Nelson Darby (1800-1882), a Plymouth Brethren minister came up with a convenient way of dividing the Bible into dispensations (VPW called them administrations) to explain away "apparent contradicitons'. But I digress... My experience in TWI (19701987) involved accepting the approved answers in PFAL etc. (pointed out here already). If you like those answers, then good for you. Lots of us find them to be propaganda starting with the idea of inerrancy of the written texts (there I go again, nagging about inerrancy). Another reason their teachings are propaganda is that TWI provides only one story about what the Bible is and what it means. There are others and they are not "of the devil." If you go to the fellowship, ask them what TWI offers that is different from any other church (besides a history riddled with corruption and abuse). If they say they teach the "accuracy of the Bible" ask them how they know for sure...see what they say...ask they if they know how VPW stole the material for the PFAL class, Holy Spirit book and other materials. You can get those details here at GSC. If they tell you they have a research department, ask for names and credentials. Then make up your own mind. Oh, one last thing. Remember: A fundamentalist cult is not going to admit to being a fundamentalist cult. Cheers!

Nice work, Waysider. A great little book on this topic that I just finished reading is, The Faiths of the Founding Fathers, by David L. Holmes. Recommendation: "This brief, highly readable and responsible work of scholarship will serve as a fine antidote to the pious mythology which often passes for history on this subject." Peter W. Williams, author of America's Religions: From Their Origins to the Twenty-First Century. Cheers!