penworks

Since I post here, when I read a statement like, " Most people like me won't touch this place with a ten foot pole" said by Johniam, it sure makes me wonder what sorts of people those are. I try not to take those statements personally, though. But I don't know how to take them impersonally, either...just sayin.

Dear DWBH, You are the Dude! Your memory is photographic or something!!! I often think of your interview posted here at GSC and tell people to listen to it! You mentioned the women at the ECU Way Home. Before the guys I mentioned above moved in the ECU Way Home with JAL, there were a couple of women living there with J*hn and M*ry S*mmerville. One was M*rcia Faul* who later married B*ll Gr*en and ran the Corps at HQ. While we're naming names for historical records, J. S*mmerville works (or at least a couple of years ago he did) as a tour guide for Israel trips sponsored by John Hagee Ministries. I've watched Hagee on T.V. He is the closest clone of VP I've seen. Sorry JAL, you didn't make the cut . Cheers!

One would be too many.

Hi everyone, esp. nice to see DWBH! This info might solve the photo mystery: I was from the ECU fellowship and was in the second Corps (1971-73). In those days, there was a Way Home set up in Greenville, NC, down the street from the ECU campus. When I took PFAL at the Way Home in Dec. 1970, John and Pat Lynn were living in it and so were several guys enrolled at ECU. They helped run PFAL classes, recruit other students into TWI, etc. VPW had set up this kind of thing because he wanted college educated leaders for his cult. The requirement for living with the Lynns was this: stay in college, get your degree, be a slave for TWI and then lucky you, you can come to HQ and spend only one year doing the in-resident program with the Way Corps and then graduate. Under this plan, Earl Burto*, Duk* Clark*, Randy Anders*n, Ger*ld Wren, I*n Murphy, and G*orge H*nley all did the Corps thing. Specifically, E*rl and R*ndy got their college degree before the others, so they came to HQ in the fall of 1971 and joined the First Corps, graduating with them in 1972. D*ke, Ger*ald, and I*an arrived at HQ in 1972 and graduated with us in the 2nd Corps in 1973. G*orge H. showed up in the fall of 1973 and graduated with the 3rd Corps in 1974. I believe the third corps was the last Corps to have two back-to-back years of Corps indoctrination and then graduate. After that, an interim year was added. Is this right, DWBH? Cheers!

Socks, you crack me up. " If God taught him, opened the scriptures ok, but apparently God wasn't up to redoing old work and just directed him to previous efforts. That's understandable, God has a lot to do but if it's all one happy bag of inspired work, all the better to clearly accredit God for past work well done and note the sources." Cheers! Penworks

I agree. I can verify this is what I witnessed in TWI from the two of them, too.

I truly believed God led me to it because I wanted to know what His Word "really" said. I found out what VPW "really" said that other people had already said.

Looks as if they might be able to climb rocks but spelling isn't part of their gig --- "Where Back!!!" What does that mean, Sowers????

About 2 years ago, from a very reliable source, I heard he was conducting tours around Israel for John Hagee's ministry. J.S. taught O.T. history at HQ a very long time ago.

Utterly amazing. Thanks for the links to the old threads on this topic, too.

In the PFAL book, it's clear VPW had one view and one view only of what the Bible was: The inerrant Word of God. Period. Grads of the class all heard it drilled into them, and they still do no matter how many name changes the PFAL class has undergone. IMO, VPW was just one more voice pushing Bibliolatry. Offshoots of TWI continue to propagate this cherished belief, feeling they must carry the torch of "their father in Bibliolatry." I remember while I was in TWI, I refused to accept that I was in effect worshipping a book, but indeed I was. And in the process indirectly worshipping a man who said he knew what that book "really said." What I like about this article (link below) is that it tries to offer a realistic way of appreciating the Bible for what it is, not what men have tried to make it be. BTW - This is something I've spent only the last few 25 years of my life doing - in my spare time :-) Let's get real: The Bible is Dead; Long Live the Bible Cheers! Pen

Someone recently asked me whether VPW told me for whom to vote. All I could say was I don't remember his outright TELLING me which persons to vote for, but he usually made it plain who he was voting for. i.e. Reagan. He was clearly Republican and in those days (1970 - 1987) I was strongly influenced by VPW even after he died in 1985. How 'bout you? OOPS, the title should read "Do" not "Does". How do I change that?

HA. While looking through mine, prompted by this post, I discovered some things on the inside cover pages, though, that brought back some weird memories: I pasted a small scrap of paper listing the 5 Corps principles. Also is a yearly calendar (stick-on kind), and nother scrap of paper with James 1:17 on it. "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above and cometh down from the Father of lights with whom is no variableness neither shadow of turning." I have no idea why I chose that verse. On the next inside page, I taped a sheet titled, "Keys to Walking in the Spirit." Looks like its from the Advanced Class. It's printed with decorations in the corners so I guess we were given it during the class. Each "tip" has at least one verse to substantiate it, from all over the N.T. and some from the O.T, which raises some issues ...but that's another topic. On the next page I stuck another stick-on sheet which is about 1/2 page, titled, "God's Word Speaks of Five Crowns of Highest Award for Believers. They are...(then it lists and defines them.) No verses were given for each one but I wrote them in ink in the margin. Then I have the phone number of the Rome City campus for some odd reason. And a list of 4 attributes of what "twigs are: Positive, Teaching, Fellowship, Ministering. Then a statement: The Way Tree is a white oak tree. The next inside page (there were many, how come?) has another stick on page with "Biblical Truths we Must Adhere to as Workmen" and some other tips on "letting the Bible interpret itself." All lifted from Bullinger, I'm sure. Then there is the note to self: Inherent means "from within," Inerrant means "without error." Interesting that, more than 25 years later, "inerrant" has now become part of my research on fundamentalism.... I've got to "move on!" ---Given all these cheat-sheet helpful hints, who needs to turn the pages and actually read the Bible? With all that "accurate" help, I can't for the life of me figure out why I left!!

You made me laugh out loud. You get an A+ for humor today, dude.

Good post, Um...I'm one of those posters - from the 2nd Corps. Don't kid yourself. Those were dark days, too, albeit w/out LCM screaming. VPW's methods of indoctrination clothed in the "father in the Word" persona were perhaps subtle at times compared with LCM but just as or more insidious...and predatory. Although VP "sort of" defined his program with the 5 Corps principles (although they were very general and open to all sorts of interpretation), he sprang those on us AFTER we were in residence. One girl told me she thought we were just there for 2 years to learn stuff, then go home. Nope. We got roped into a "lifetime" deal, which some of us have rejected to varying degrees. Sadly, the girl I mentioned above is currently roped into a TWI offshoot. That's how powerful the indoctrination was on her, at least... Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. Charlene

Hello, This is Charlene Lamy Edge letting you know that this article is linked to my story here called, An Affinity for Windows. This month, April 2011, my story was solicited by John Knapp, LMHC, to appear on his site: Center for Healing Spiritual and Cultic Abuse. It is nice to see how many people have read it there already. I'm grateful to contribute to the conversation, taking place on so many web sites sharing people's stories of understanding, growth, and healing after being in a group that did not serve their best interest. My relationship with CHSCA is not a formal one. I do not consider myself a member of CHSCA, nor have I received counseling from the CHSCA organization or from any other cult counseling group; however, I am glad for any help anyone can receive from CHSCA or anywhere else. Further, I am not affilitated with any cult awareness group or anti-cult movement. My intent is to let my story be available for anyone who might find it useful to their journey. An Affinity for Windows was first published by Red Pepper Press, Winter Park, FL, 2004 in an antholgy, Shifting Gears: Startling Moments In and Out of the Classroom, 22 stories by women of Rollins College, edited by five people, including a Rollins writing professor. Visit: Mad About Words for a few sample pages of the book, which is now out-of-print. Thanks, Charlene

16 years after I graduated. But the good news is, if I hadn't gone through it, I would not have eventually had the amazingly talented and loving daughter I have. Her father was in the Corps with me. So questions about regrets are a mixed bag...

I think this is part of why TWI is in the category of a cult. Unchecked power. No "union" at HQ for workers to unite. :-)

Hope for what? I found this regarding Bullinger and inerrancy: Most widely known for The Companion Bible--the Authorized Version of 1611 with the Structures and Critical, Explanatory, and Suggestive Notes and with 198 Appendixes (Kregel), Bullinger's copious notes contain vast amounts of technical information, typically overwhelming the average reader today. He clearly and faithfully believed that the original canon of Scripture was the inerrant Word of God. However, his views on biblical inspiration contained subtle error, which in turn caused anomalies in his views regarding interpretation. While he acknowledged the Holy Spirit as "guide and teacher of His own Word", he did not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for the new-creation believer and thus the biblical doctrine of the Spirit's illumination was conspicuously absent from his theology. http://withchrist.org/bullinger.htm

P.S. I should point out that The Fundamentals were published in the USA. There are probably other theologians in other countries who latched onto inerrancy, too. If I'm remembering correctly, E.W. Bullinger, from England (December 15, 1837 – June 6, 1913) may have been enamoured with the idea of inerrancy of the scriptures, too. He was from across the pond in England. As most TWI people know, his influence on VPW was huge. http://en.wikipedia....E._W._Bullinger This is a little more info on inerrancy that might help. http://en.wikipedia....lical_inerrancy

One of the hallmarks of Protestant Fundamentalism is its claim of inerrant scripture. This is a relatively new idea about scripture, coming into play around 1920 when some theologians got upset about the critical and historical study of the documents contained in the Bible and put together about 12 long papers called The Fundamentals. (there are plenty of good books documenting the history of fundamentalism and you can Google The Fundamentals and find them online). Historical study asks questions like: where did these documents come from, who wrote them, what kind of cultural influences did the writers inherit, etc. The theologians who wrote, The Fundamentals were afraid that such study undermined people's faith in God, Jesus, and salvation. I disagree with that, faith is faith, which by its nature does not depend on a book. So inerrancy is a "new" claim about scriptures made from what I see as a defensive position. In my view, it stems from a fear that a study of the Bible's sources and different writers, claims, errors, etc. would bother people. I disagree. Plenty of Christians accept the imperfections in the texts while still believing in God, Jesus, salvation, etc. So back to inerrancy. The history of fundamentalism shows that inerrancy is a man-made idea about scriptures and also of a God that has to be "perfect" which is a theological position and therefore unprovable; that, too, is a matter of faith. The burden of showing inerrancy of the scriptures, therefore, lies with the authors of The Fundamentals but since they're not around, it falls to anyone making the assertion. So I ask you, did VP ever prove that the entire KJV was without error or contradiction? Did he or anyone else ever show how the entire Bible "fit" together perfectly? A few more observations before I get off my soapbox: 1) VP and most other fundamentalists do not state which Bible they are referring to when they say it "must be perfect because God is perfect." So the question to ask them is, "Which canon of the scripture is inerrant?" 2) Why is it so important that the scriptures be "perfect"? Many people find value, inspiration, etc. from scriptures in spite of the various viewpoints or contradictions found in it, like the different perspectives of the gospel writers. 3) If God is without contradiction, how do you account for even this simple example of contradiction about the God of Israel (apparently the same one VP taught us about) . One minute he says don't kill - no exceptions are stated. Two chapters later it says he tells Israel to go for it. Dueteronomy 5:17: "Thou shalt not kill" Dueteronomy 7: 2: "And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them...: For those interested, more information about inerrancy is covered in most any book about fundamentalism from writers like James Barr, Ernest Sandeen, George Marsden, and in a book on Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know - and Doesn't, by Stephen Prothero. In closing, I'll just include this food for thought : "...in addition to reading the Bible devotionally there is a value in reading it historically. To be sure, a historical reading can show many of the shortcomings of the Bible - discrepancies, contradictions, faulty claims, impossible statements, and harmful ideologies. But a historical reading can open up entirely new vistas in our understanding of the Bible and its multifarious messages." ~ Jesus, Interrupted by Bart Ehrman. Pg.282. Cheers! Pen

It was indoctrination. Dogmatic groups resort to that to keep believers from asking uncomfortable questions. Any closed belief system of necessity has to do that - otherwise they wouldn't be a "system" they would be an open forum, willing to entertain challenging questions and not be dogmatic about their beliefs. I went to Catholic school for 8 years and experienced indoctrination there, too. TWI took the process up a few notches with the Way Corps program. I lived in Trailer Six with 20 women, ten bunks, and 2 bathrooms for two years and believe me, I know. Doubt of VP or what he taught or how he ran The Corps was the enemy. Certainty was the rule. In the end, as I read somewhere, it is not doubt, however, that produces madness, it is certainty. For more of my opinions on this topic, see post #245 here: The way VP was Cheers! Penworks

Dear Johniam, From what I've seen, you've made up your mind about VPW but for others reading this thread I'll just say this: There is plenty of clear evidence of VPW's taking other people's books and stealing passages from them (two main ones are J.E. Stiles, and E.W. Bullinger), his inappropriate use of scripture verses taken out of context; his authoritarian rule over his group as witnessed by many of us who knew him; his condemnation of any other denomination; his denial of the holocaust (he sold The Myth of the Six Million in the bookstore); his alcoholism; his interest in pornography (i.e. showing bestiality films in the Advanced Class) and his sexual abuse of women as accounted by Kristen Skedgell in her book, Losing The Way. If people want to follow someone like that, then that is their choice. I'll shamelessly plug my own story and article which are posted on the front page as further bits of "what we got" for your review. I knew the man for 17 years. I know that not every single thing that came out of his mouth was a lie...if that had been the case, lots of us would not have become associated with TWI. I'll go on record as pointing out he told the truth plenty of times, but he used people and used the Bible to further his own aims. He made his claims sound like they made sense. He manipulated people and intimidated them. Each person's experience in TWI is different depending on many factors, but I suggest for those who want to know, that they seek out information about the man from those of us who knew him and read his books, like the PFAL book to see for themselves how he misused scripture and ranted about "unbelievers" among other things. He was a fundamentalist gone wild. Remember this while you're making up your own mind: "The fanatic inspires and breathes fear. It is the only tie that binds him to his fellow-man and God. So afraid is he of doubt that he pushes it outside the law. Whether his dictatorship is intellectual or theocratic, he pretends to possess a unique and eternal truth. Insist on a discussion, and he takes offense. He accepts questions only if he alone has the right to answer them. It comes to this: The fanatic accepts only answers – his own – while his tolerant adversary prefers questions." ~ Elie Wiesel

T-Bone' date='10 March 2011 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1299778344' post='524405'] .....there's just no hope of making a fresh start when you still have a stale mindset. IMO this is one of the best lines on GSC yet. May I use this phrase when I mention TWI off-shoot groups in conversations I have? I'll give you credit :-)

From long ago and far away... TWI in 1971