penworks

I remember that one of VPW's great heroes was General Patton. More than once VPW showed us the movie based on his life where he was ordering his men around and shouting profanity. Once VP had us meet in the Way Woods and put up a giant screen so we could watch this modern day "leader" practice principles of intimidation etc., ones that VPW obviously emulated. VP would laugh and laugh at the general's arrogant behavior. In my view, many guys in the Corps loved Patton, too, because VP did. This outrageous model of so-called leadership supported VP's own abusive behavior that many of us had convinced ourselves was the way a real leader should act, after all, VP portrayed the Old Testament prophets yelling and screaming at the Israelites when they worshiped false idols, etc.. VP used Patton's example as a great "leader" as a justification for his often mean and sickening style, and many - not all - of the Way Corps (guys especially) tried to copy it.

Excellent point.

I venture to guess that one of those issues is translating VPW's books. Tom translated them into French, the language of some - and I emphasize SOME - Africans, depending on their nation in Africa. It's highly unlikely any books were translated into Swahilli and Lengala, but maybe...perhaps some live translations went on during live teachings. In any event, the problem of who would decide that those translations were "accurate" was a continual thorn in VP's side. (this problem plagued TWI after VP's death, because he had been that guy). Some of us realize the issues in translating...they are many and often involve subjective calls. A good translation depends on the translator's knowledge of the source language AND the target language. Nobody in TWI was in that position regarding the outreach in Africa to my knowledge.

Can you tell us approximately when you gave this presentation? What year? Thanks! Penworks

I've heard through the grapevine that many innies don't trust what is written here because, for the most part, the posts are anonymous. Has anyone else heard that?

Hi there. Three things: 1) the Dead Sea scrolls contain portions of the Old Testament. None of those manuscripts were accessible to the public for years and years. It's possible some of them could impact current teachings in Jewish or Christian circles but while I was in TWI, B*rnita J*ss and I did talk about what their value might be. We didn't see them as "contaminated" etc. That sounds like something LCM would say. We saw them behind glass cases in the museum in Jerusalem on the Bible Lands Tour 1985. 2) Having been on the Research Team, I can vouch that it was a "sham," as you put it, not only because we had to "back up" VP doctrine but because of the limits that a fundamentalist approach to the Bible put on research done in TWI, in particlular, inerrancy. Inerrancy demanded the Bible "fit like a hand in a glove" without errors, etc. For the record, I believe the Aramaic Concordance was the only true research resource we produced because it was simply that, a Concordance. However, The Aramaic Interlinear (completed after the Concordance), which was a reference book, but got "contaminated" in my opinon by Wierwille's psuedo-theology because the person who finished that translation made certain changes that "lined up" with VP's interpretations. Some of this I included in my Affinity story. 3) As for GMIR, a lot of nice information was offered in those articles but they all had to comply with the basic premise of inerrancy which skewed their findings. I knew some reserachers who would not submit articles to GMIR because of the heavy editing done by the in-house Team and Way Publications for the material to "comply" with existing teachings. Cheers, Pen

Glad the article is helpful. I agree. The research couldnt' be "real" because it stated its hypothesis as if it were the result. i.e. Biblical inerrancy. That was never shown to be true in TWI nor is it shown anywhere else IMO. Inerrancy is not critical to appreciating the Bible. VP's reseach efforts were a stab at being accepted in the scholarly world. Some on our team during the 1980s would attend the Society of Biblical Literature meetings and report on what TWI was doing, i.e. the Aramaic Concordance. VP wanted respect from scholars who attended it yet often denounced such scholars as "intellectual egotists" or unbelievers. Crazy. And he used W*alter C*mmins, a good hearted person taken in by VP, to do his bidding. Interesting that W*alter still promotes VP's stuff and follows his methodology... Once the foundaton of TWI's research is understood, i.e. fundamentalism -- a plagiarized fundamentalism at that! -- TWI's value unravels for many of us. Also, when you give up believing VP's cult leader claim (the snow story)-- the whole thing unravles pretty fast, too. Cheers! Pen

Univ. of Life? Depth of research? Lofty? Well, I guess it's all a matter of perspective...

For a long time I've wondered why they left...

Penworks: My experience in Florida in late 1970s and early 1980s was that VPW required Corps night dial-ups from those of us on the field. Limb and branch leaders enforced this on the Corps in their areas. Penworks: IMO, The Corps was on a short choke chain while I was in residence in 1971-1973 when VPW was directly in charge of it.

And quite honestly, many still don't, even those who have left, especially those in offshoots...

Indeed. For those of us looking for answers, not just a fun time with the believers at pot luck dinners and bowling nights, he led us to believe he had the "accuracy" of what the original scriptures said. He was convincing if you didn't stop, slow down, and examine what he said line by line. I know I didn't do that until years later. You are right about the "snow" and the supposed revelation it validated. For me, that revelation was the hook. For others, not so much. Some never believed that revelation. They didn't care much whether VP defined Greek words correctly, they didn't care whether he stole J.E. Stiles Holy Spirit book contents, repackaged it and sold it, claiming the Father had told him what to write. I heard some say "Truth belongs to everyone," so to them such picky claims about plagiarism is just academic jargon. Those people were the ones more interested in having fun at pot luck with loving kind people, they were not concerned about the "accuracy" of what supposedly brought us all together in the first place. When "picky" issues about The Word came up in 1986 before I resigned from the Research Dept., friends on staff that I talked with outside the department (only a few I trusted) said "Oh, the leaders will fix any mistakes, W&alter knows what he's doing. We have so much accuracy what does it matter there's a few puzzling issues. All that heavy research is beyond me anyway. I just want to stick with "the basics"...love people...keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace, " etc. Let's face it, if more people had really cared about what the PFAL class said exactly, or where it came from, including myself when I first took it, we would have seen the mistakes that people later publicized, like the list posted here at GSC, "Actual Errors in PFAL." We could have read Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible and seen VP copied it. I ask myself how did all this get past me? For the most part, I just trusted VP and got too caught up in promoting the PFAL rather than "studying the PFAL." Trust. Yikes. It comes back to bite us, doesn't it? This is just the tip of the research iceberg for me. Anyhow...In my view, TWI is a hampster wheel that crashed long ago... Cheers, Pen

Ohmygosh she was in the Corps with me. What the heck happened to her?

Is this museum a literal according to usage or a figure of speech?

This is a shocking statement, although I don't doubt it for a variety of reasons. But I am startled into wanting to know whether there is any documentation on it. Pen

I had taken Wierwille's "snow story" as gospel truth, as confirmation of his special revelation, the one about God telling him He would teach him the Word like it had not been known since the first century if he would teach others. My belief in that revelation had created a blind spot, wiping out my ability to acknowledge the facts on the ground about Wierwille's errors. They were not errors. They were revelation.

I can verify these events, although I had been through the re-indoctrination year in 1976-77 with my second corps group after 3 years on the field. (more on this at another time).

These very revealing quotes are from a transcribed tape of VPW, 1973, teaching a small group at headquarters on the topic of his Way Tree structure for the organization: Pg. 6 "...when I wrote the book Receiving the Holy Spirit today, and I isolated myself for a week in the Marsh Hotel in Van Wert, all the talk all over the community was that Doctora and Mrs. Wierwille had split up." Pg. 7 "Now if he [the devil] gets to you, and you begin to doubt my honesty, my veracity, the truth with which we set the Word and the ministry, it [the Word] will never get around the world." Pg. 8 "You see the Adversary sure was after Cephas and Apollos and the rest, but really not after them. They were only stepping stones for him to get the Apostle Paul. That's all they were, stepping stones for the adversary to get to the Apostle Paul. It'd be the same as if the adversary can get through E*rl B8rton, through D88nie F*git, through J**nny T*&nsend, and if the adversary can get to them, then he is very close to touching me. Same trip." Pg. 11 "Denominations are the design of the adversary. That's right. You can't read me one in the book of Acts." Amazing, huh? Cheers! Pen

There are some things Rosie cannot sweep under the rug about the Wierwille years (ending in 1985 when he died) because too many of us know them and are speaking out. Anyonw interested in those years can find plenty about them here. And in books like Karl Kahler's and Kris Skegell's. In the 1970s we used to say, "Don't keep the faith. Spread it." I say, "Don't keep TWI secrets. Tell them."

You know, it's amazing we put up with it, but that we did (I should speak for myself) is an indication of the co-dependant relationship I had with Wierwille. I bought the snow story revelation which essentially made him infallible for all practical purposes and he knew I bought it. BTW - keeping the troops in line is a galaxy away from the publically stated intentions of TWI on their web site like this one, the bold words are my emphasis: "A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth".

RE: "Way back then.....twigs were short, succinct, and spot-on! " Not to be "negative," but that depended on who was running the fellowship. I also caution against saying they were "spot-on". Spot on with what? I guess I'm picky picky picky... Cheers.

Why are they at polar extremes? Is it that the 1994 and beyond followers naively THINK that the old farm days were somehow better?

Are "things" really that different in S.O.W.E.R.S.? Perhaps they are if you consider they have no research dept. but from their web site VPW the grandson looks as if he's copying the way corps program etc.

Feel free to contact me through this site, too. I'm open to answering questions and you may find my journey helpful. You can read it here on the front page. Affinity for Windows.