penworks

Exactly. If he had been an out-front monster, we would have run in the opposite direction (I would hope!). I'm reminded of those TV commercials trying to sell us drugs with hideous side effects. The ad depicts smiling people doing everday tasks. The voice over sounds like your dearest friend. The voice tells us a litany of ghastly side effects but the ad makers are counting on our being distracted by the fun-loving, often beautiful, healthy looking people we assume are taking the drug, so we miss listening closely to the gravity of the side effects, "on rare occasions, even death."

Outrageous! Unimaginable. What a horrible mess... One thing about our stories is to ask ourselves, who is the audience we want to address? Many issues are settled after we decide on that. Also, do you want to write a personal history or a memoir? They are different. I suggest reading: Writing the Memoir by Judith Barrington. There are other helpful books out there to guide us, too, like, Your Life as Story by Tristine Rainer. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Skyrider, If you want to write your book, do it. Yes, there are many considerations about going public, but there are people who want to hear our stories. Who need our stories. If you feel you can put yourself out there, that you are coming from a good place, not a place of revenge for instance, let it rip. People respect that. I can say this about the embarrassment aspect: It's a matter of trust. I began confessing to being in a cult gradually with people I had gotten to know. They already knew a healed version of me before they learned what I'd been through. Most of them were aghast but very curious and loved me for surviving. Most understood I had had a hard time and had learned things they will never have a chance to find out without stories from people like me. The people I've talked to are fascinated and want to understand it all. They respect the fact I left. They see I'm "normal" and wonder how I got in, how I left, how I sorted things out, how I rebuilt my life. So keep writing if you feel compelled to do it, and I think you do. The writing saves us. The writing is important. Our lives matter. Love to you and cheers to your endeavors, Charlene

For anyone reading here who is not familiar with what TWI used to do in their so-called Biblical research efforts, this is a repeat of the failed efforts of TWI: "The basis for all our efforts is the Bible, which we believe to be the Word of God, perfect in its original writing. So-called errors, contradictions, or discrepancies are the result of man’s subsequent interference in the translation or transmission of the text, or his failure to understand what is written.Spirit & Truth Fellowship International draws from all relevant sources that shed light on the integrity of Scripture, such as geography, customs, language, history, and principles governing Bible interpretation. We seek the truth without respect to tradition, “orthodoxy,” or popular trends and teachings." Buyer beware.

One caveat: secular education was encouraged for some, for instance many at East Carolina Univ. who lived in The Way Home trying to immitate the Corps program. BUT the purpose of getting it was only to use it for the benefit of TWI, i.e. an accounting degree or business degree AND ALSO that unbelievers would have more respect for us, given we had a college education. The idea was the education would give us a chance to witness to educated people like business leaders and politicians who would not consider us just ignorant kids obsessed with the Bible, but intellligent educated folks. Ha! Then, there were those who were encouraged to get degrees in biblical languages to "help in biblical research." Ha again. Plenty went wrong with both...

I knew him back in the day (early 1980s) when he was in Florida as limb leader but actually met him much earlier than that when he first got into TWI in NC. He passed away a few years ago and I understand that his older daughter is the one running this group.

Oh yeah...charity. The greatest of these...how far away from it we often roamed while searching for power over every blasted situation, "unbeliever," etc. etc. I'm reminded of the old guru story that goes something like this: The seeker asks the guru how to have more power. The guru asks: "Why do you seek power? What are you afraid of?"

For me, yes, sometimes.

You said so well what I thought.

On the official web site of The Way International, I thought it was interesting they felt they had to make a statement disclaiming any affiliation with the Way T.V. that apparently produced that awful video recently that is being used to inflame the Middle East. http://www.theway.org/topic.php?page=about&lang=en What do you guys think of this statement on that web page? "The Way International does not support or engage in the slander of any individual, group, or country."

Talk about bringing back memories...just saw the movie, The Master. Great performances but the movie went on a little too long. Maybe that was just me. Hoffman's depiction of a controling cult leader (only without a Bible) was well done. But I got the shivers when he smoked Kools and rode a motorcycle. Worth seeing, but only If you are ready to put yourself through some emotional stuff again...not sure I was. Didn't get much sleep last night. And I left TWI twenty-five years ago!

Ditto!

Thanks, Raf. I understand.

Hi Raf, Just wanted to say my comments were not meant as reproof so no need to apologize. I really did want to know whether you had a reason for excluding the option in your survery along the lines of some of us believing SIT was "of God" but later doubting it after we left TWI. I agree with you that TWI's teachings (and the offshoots of TWI) are contradictory, often nonsensical, presumptuous, and most of us here know were stolen from the teachings of J.E. Stiles, etc. and others who wrote about the holy spirit. My musings on my experience with speaking in tongues are just musings. At the time it happened, I believed it was a spiritual experience from God. Now I'm not sure, since I've abandoned lots of ideas about God. Like others here, I don't expect to ever "know" what the heck I was really doing when I spoke in tongues and to put it bluntly - I don't care. But I don't conceive of myself of having lied about it, although you have given me reason to pause and second guess myself on that. I guess I don't know how lying applies to this situation. I'm puzzled. While in TWI, I felt like I was doing what VP described and I thought he was right about it all. Plus, I was not consciously asking the critical questions like the ones expressed here. I had shut down my faculty of critical thinking thanks to VP's and others' intimidation and my weak self esteem. Perhaps the question now is: Does the nature of lying involve a conscious awareness of doing so? I think for some of us, we were blindly following and not consiously aware that VP's claims about speaking in tongues were false. BUT as soon as we had doubts, we quit preaching VP's doctrines and admitted we just didn't know that we knew anymore... What more thoughts can you share with me on this? I am sincerely asking.

Any particular reason you did not include an option like: I sincerely thought I was doing something real as described by Wierwille's teaching, but after I left TWI, I've doubted the value or meaning of speaking in tongues. BTW - I spoke in tongues before I heard any of TWI's teachings and before I heard anyone from TWI speak in tongues. I'm not sure how to account for it other than it being a type of altered state of consciousness. Before I met anyone from TWI, a woman in the group called Young Life had told me that one day I would speak in tongues. She said it was a gift from God. She told me this right after she had prayed for me in English and then she spoke in tongues outloud right after she prayed in English. Her tongues language sounded like French to me. Later after I met Way people, one of them told me they could teach me how to speak in tongues. At first, I worried they were wrong about that. Young Life people had said no one could teach you because it was a gift from God. But before the Way believers had the chance to "instruct me" I did it on my own while praying. So the question that's haunted me is: did I have a genuine speaking in tongues event, one that was a gift from God, or was I only immitating what that lady had done? I know that my "language" did not sound French or like any other language I'd heard before. I could stop and start as I wished, like I learned later from TWI. But I wonder whether the power of suggestion, from both the Young Life lady, and later from the Way person, played into my experience. Whatever the "real" explanation, I know I enjoyed it sometimes but I no longer feel the need for it.

Kept it for the future possibility of writing a book ....

As far as I know, WJC bought it most of the time, but I can't speak for him. I can say that during the time I worked for him, he was loyal to VP, no doubt about it.

This may not seem like an "insane rant" by VP, but when you think about it, it's awful. From one of my Corps notebooks. September 21, 1971 First wave of W.O.W. Ambassadors training VPW comment while teaching Acts 17: "The organized church will envy and hate you because of your knowledge of The Word and your believing boldness." Naturally, all these years later, I think the reason for that hate (if there ever was any) was due to many Way followers arrogance about knowing "the accuracy" of The Word. I'm sure many times we came off as know-it-alls. That never helps anyone! And I do think that certainty is one of the biggest problems in any belief system.

Yes, lack of life experience and insight kept us at a disadvantage. I cringe at all that but I try and remember that the indoctrination was powerful, at least for many of us. It kept so many of us hooked and unable to think critically about what we were doing. Recently I re-met a person who tried to warn me about TWI in 1971. That person had done some homework and even back then, found one of VPW's early edition books, and realized the group would repress my freedom of expression (at the very least). This person described that 1971 version of myself as unable to self-reflect. I was so obstinant. Yes, that is a trait I've battled with all my life, but in my youth that was a huge factor in my inability to listen to a sound-minded person trying to get through to me. Specifically, the obstancy centered around the belief that GOD himself had led me to TWI. That trumped any reasoned thoughtfulness about the downside of dropping out of college and becoming the fanatic I grew to be. Thankfully, I now have a mature relationship with that long lost friend. I've been lucky they are so forgiving of my younger self!

Some of us took really good notes.

I've thought about this on and off for years. I think there are many "reasons," but chief among them was VP's control issue. IMO he was a narcissist and everything revolved around him. He had to be in charge. An alternate perspective would take the spotlight away from his perspective, which was "accurate." Only in a few casual "research" sessions with WJC and a few other "trusted" people, did I see him concede any ideas he might have had about a given verse...but only after it was made clear that he had "checked with the Father" that the "correction" was right. That maneuver still kept him in the authoritarian position he loved.

I feel that way, too. The promise of "the accuracy of the Word" was unmet so I left. But of course it was unmet, in my opinion, because it was a mirage...

Glad to see someone else has learned about Darby and his contribution to the theory of Bible "administrations" that so many evangelicals and fundamentalists subscribe to. He is an important figure in the history of this kind of Bible study and influenced VPW whether he knew it or not....if he did know of it, he sure didn't question Darby. At least I never heard him mention Darby's name. Why not question such a contrivance? IMO, dispensations/administrations are a system of time-zoning the Scriptures to back up what you want to believe.

...Or go directly to their site S.O.W.E.R.S. The Corps principles are the exact same ones VPW Sr. put together for us in 1970, designed to propagate his cult. Not too effective given that most of us from The Corps are long gone from TWI, although many carry on in offshoots..

I've read both of these books and can recommend them! Something else that helps me to practice more self awareness is meditation or mindfulness, slowing down and reflecting more...