penworks

Thanks! Wonderful take on cultism.

Wordwolf, Did Jim Doop publish these quotes you attribute to him? Are they in Karl Kahler's book? Thanks, Penworks

Hi everyone. Getting back to the topic of this thread, Cult Prevention, I'd like to add a couple of things. I think we can all agree that cult prevention is no easy task, especially in the U.S. where we have freedom of religion and certain constitutional protections, and apparent ease in creating a cult disguised as a non-profit organization BUT I think we can try. We must. Too much damage in the name of God is done by cults, right? One way is warning others about destructive cults so they don't get mixed up in them, like having a place like this. Yay! As I understand it, GSC was created for former TWI followers to share their stories and help each other understand The Way phenomenon and recover more mental and emotional health. At least that was my impression. So, I just want to say cheers to the people behind the scenes, i.e. moderators, etc. who keep the café open. Maybe because I was recruited to TWI as a teenager in college I have a hunch that young people need more education about religion so they recognized a sales pitch for a cult when they hear it. I don't mean education IN a religion but ABOUT religion and its power. So, I'd like to recommend a book by Stephen Prothero titled Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know--And Doesn't. I wish I'd read that when I was 18 years old! Prothero is a Christian and a scholar who writes in a way the general public can enjoy. The cover of the book states, "Provocative and timely...combines a lively history of the rise and fall of American religious literacy with a set of proposed remedies." - The Washington Post. I am a firm believer in reading good educational material like Prothero's to help me, as well as poetry, fiction, newspapers, whatever...without censorship. Full disclosure -- I am no longer a Christian, but an agnostic with a Buddhist sort of spirituality. I say that because I like people to know I am not a defender of any kind of "doctrine," but a defender of free inquiry and free speech, which is why I like to visit (and lurk at) this site. While in TWI, those freedoms were not respected, as least in my experience. I paid a high price. So, does anyone else have a book they can recommend or other actions we can take to address cult prevention besides keeping GSC open and sharing our experiences whenever appropriate? Cheers, Penworks

Thanks, Rocky. Yes, I'm at www.charleneedge.com. My memoir is finished (hello John Linder, etc.) and you can sign in to receive updates which I'll post once or twice a month. Cheers, Charlene L. Edge former Second Way Corps member

Ditto. "That's what makes me think that maybe someone has made their story known". Hi everyone, You can be sure of this -- I'm not involved in this show. I have my own story to get published.

Ehrman is one of my heroes. Fearless. Speaks the truth without patronizing.

I think this is an important point. Most books on cults that I've read bring this to the forefront: groups that place high demands on followers, attempting to control them, fall into the destructive cult description.

Yes indeed. Theirs was a tribal mentality, which always has to include a Them vs. Us and a good deal of control. If you have questions about my post, feel free to ask me, not ask anyone to "rewrite" what I said. They don't have that job. I'd be happy to try and help.

This may be useful: It's my checklist for a cult. I figure that if a group's characteristics fit this list, then it's a cult. CULT aspects: Leader's Claim of "special knowledge": Wierwille claimed: "He [God] said He would teach me The Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others." Even though he's dead, let's face it, TWI in New Knoxville and offshoots cling to and promote his fundamentalist teachings, whether they've slightly "revised" them or not. Control &Indoctrination Control of information, behavior, emotions, thoughts, and money. Harmful effects on followers: Shut off their critical thinking capacity. Fear modernity: evolution, medicine, technology. Fear the historical-critical approach to the Bible and condemn it. Invest time, money, energy in cult's goals, not their own. Suffer health problems, even death, from thinking "I'm healed." Slap band aid Bible answers on a democratic society's complex problems. Seize political control to promote their beliefs. Become paranoid that unbelievers are persecuting them. Often disrespect other religions and avenues of spirituality. Develop habits of manipulating people and scriptures. Break relationships that hinder commitment to the group. Unwittingly or deliberately spread propaganda. Lose educational, financial, and relationship opportunities. Retards their own personal growth

I agree that in the USA we cannot prevent them from forming, but as many of us are trying to do, we can try to prevent people from joining cults. Does anyone else here know about ICSA? They try and educate. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS_hc5LO1HtMvoa8kRcLcig

Me, too. He was the N.C. leader when I got involved at ECU. I think he means well, but he was misled like so many of us. John, if you're reading here, know we're sending good thoughts your way. It's been a rocky road for us all...

Me, too. Especially in peace of mind and gratitude for all the positive things in day-to-day living. I think many of us can say that TWI sucked the life out of us...and we're thankful we're out.

John Juedes reveals VPW's plagiarism at https://www.youtube....h?v=_z3K7xnoXww Thanks, John!

Speaking of Lamsa's influence...perhaps some of you know that he inspired VP to produce an "Aramaic N.T." In 1979 a working copy was printed in paperback. Then a hardcopy was printed in 1983. It was not for sale to the general public or even in The Way Bookstore as far as I know, but copies were around in-house. Just to clarify: this publication is NOT the interlinear that was published in 1988. This is a N.T. that was printed in-house in the Estrangelo script with NO English translation in it. I used to have a paperback copy but I don't any longer. If anyone here has a copy of either the paperback or the hardcover, would you please send me a message or an email? Thanks!

Just want to clarify that he attended Princeton Theological Seminary

Mmm...raises an interesting scenario. What if there had been no Corps? VPW's influence would have been weaker, yes, that's a good thing, IMO. Maybe his little cult would have been a bigger flop and not hurt so many people. On the other hand, hurting even one person was one person too many. Perhaps some of us want to think over this question: would the world would be a better place if twi had not existed at all? Or perhaps it does no good to raise hypothetical questions like that. The fact is we're stuck with what happened. We're tasked with sorting out the good from the bad and the ugly. Cheers!

Yes, and it's no wonder it took some of us so long to break the "don't question VP" barrier and leave TWI. One thing VP was right about--fear is sand in the machinery of life. He sure knew how to muck up the "machinery" with his fear tactics. I've found that life is not really like a machine, though. It's a mystery.

It wasn't until I realized I needed to change my idea of what "God" was that I could see past the ridiculous fear that motivated me to stay in TWI. Then I could leave it. Seems to me that TWI created a god that fit VPW's ideas. Not the other way around. Perhaps that is true for lots of churches, too. You say you were bored by the "structure of a regular church," so that makes me wonder what the value of such structures really is. Seems like the value is emotional support, but I've yet to feel comfy in a church either, so all I can say is good luck in your quest...

Helping God? How ridiculous that we thought we could "help" whatever God really is...

It is never wrong to expose an abuser, a predator and a fake. It's a moral outrage to remain silent.

I'm here for that purpose, too. And to shed light on any issues I witnessed during my time in TWI and things I've learned since. Cheers, Charlene

You crack me up, Socks. Makes me wish I had been a smoker. BUT the truth is I didn't even go inside the tent that year...played hookey. Was moving my Aramaic books out of the Research room and into my garage...got "reassigned" to Multi Services from the Research Dept. to wash cars, like the already clean car of a certain wife of a certain Pres. of dah wey. So it goes. Glad it's gone. Those days are over. Now on to other projects like speaking up for freedom of expression. A constitutional "right" that wasn't honored at The Way. TWI was (still is) a sub-culture of repression in a county that allows such sub-cultures to repress, because even the likes of TWI is allowed freedom of expression. Ironic, isn't it? An uphill battle all the way...keep on speaking up. Maybe someone will hear...TWI is a group that suffocates individuals' efforts to express what they think and write what they want. It's a CLOSED system of absolutist ideology. Yes, that repression exists in Fundamentalist Christianity, not only in Fundamentalism of other religions. Cheers, Penworks

The first corps group (the Zero Corps which was sent home before their first year ended) came to HQ in 1969. The official First Corps came to HQ in fall of 1970. I don't know whether they fiiled out an application form or not. The Second Corps (the group I was with) began the fall of 1971. I had to fill out that form which was said to be based on the P.C. form.

I'm not sure where the principles came from but I know they did not exist until AFTER those of in the 2nd Corps entered the program. I remember this so clearly because one of the other girls told me she didn't know we were signing up to "go forth as leaders and workers" after the program. She had come in the Corps just to get the training and knowledge. AND I know VPW told another girl that it was just a two year commitment, not a LIFETIME deal. I can tell you I heard from a reliable source back in 1971 that the application we filled out to enter the Corps program was based on the one for the Peace Corps. Maybe VPW modified their goals somehow and reworded them to come up with the ones for us. Who knows...

Just want to thank you, OldSkool and many others, for the info you've posted here about the more recent version of TWI. I find it helpful for several reasons. People ask me whether TWI still exists and what their influence might still be. Info here helps me answer those questions. Plus, just today I received a phone call from a former TWI person I knew long ago who recently read my Affinity for WIndows story at this site and would like to talk with me about it. Many thanks to Pawtucket for keeping it available. I plan to post things again when the time is right for me. Cheers, Penworks