penworks

Thanks for posting this, Rocky. It made me laugh in amazement ... then sigh with disbelief ... the delusions continue ... really, the delusions began with VPW.

Just a follow-up to the last post. Undertow in e-book format is now on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and many other places, like Kobo. Note: On Kobo they put the book designer's name, Duane Stapp, alongside my name, which makes it appear as if we were co-authors. We are not. He designed the cover and the book's interior. He had nothing to do with writing the book. Cheers!

I have read a book about Wierwille's type of rhetoric that, if you want to really enlighten people about Wierwille, you could recommend: Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism by Michelle Goldberg. 2007. Recently someone mentioned it on my blog post series, Fundamentalist Fridays. From Goldberg's book, we can learn a lot about Wierwille's teachings which still influence today's version of The Way: Pg. 53, "It [the Christian Nationalist movement that conflates Christianity with patriotism] was happening in the churches, especially megachurches, temples of religious nationalism where millions of Americans gather every week for exultant sermons that mingle evangelical Christianity, self-help, and right-wing politics. ..." Wierwille did the same thing. Mingled those three ingredients. I offer this information just In case you don't realize what you would be recommending to others ...

FYI - for those interested, on Amazon, the "Look Inside" feature is now active for Undertow. Also, the e-book is finished being converted by IngramSpark and should show up on booksellers' websites in one or two weeks. Cheers.

Hi everyone, and thanks, higherground30, for reading Undertow and sharing your response here. I want you all to know I often mention this website to "outsiders" when I give talks because I want them to know so many people are still sharing and caring about their TWI experience even after so many years. It affected many of us profoundly. The healing continues ... I am getting emails and notes through my website Contact page from people I knew many years ago who say the book is helping them in one way or other. That is my reward. Cheers to the courageous ones who speak their truth here and everywhere. You inspire me. Yours, Penworks a.k.a. Charlene L. Edge at http://charleneedge.com

Excuse me, MRAP, but I hope you realize how hurtful it is to say, "Most folks here on GSC hate, and I don't mean dislike, they hate JS and STF, primarily because of having a past existence with TWI." That's a terrible accusation. I happen to be one of the "most folks here on GSC" and I do NOT hate anyone. I am asking you to consider apologizing for that statement. It is true many of us have serious concerns about TWI offshoots and for very good reasons. But those reasons, at least for me, do not include any personal hatred for the people who run those offshoots. My concerns include these things: I think some groups run by former TWI leaders and biblical researchers use various techniques of mind control just like VPW used. For instance, if you question their authority, you're the one with a problem. Freedom of inquiry is not encouraged. Their position on the inerrancy of Scripture is firmly in place, just like in TWI. (that is a hallmark of fundamentalism). New Testament dogma, primarily based on Paul's epistles, is the most important thing, not the simple Golden Rule. Non-negotiable dogmas, like the Bible is THE WORD OF GOD (really? men wrote it, translators worked on it, versions were formed, etc. etc.), promoted in these Bible groups often bring emotional and intellectual harm to followers. Critical thinking atrophies. Love is lost. That is what worries me. BTW, I happen to have known most of these "offshoot" leaders during my TWI days. I do not like what they are doing, but I do not hate them. There is a difference, at least to me. Cheers, Penworks

Here's my opinion. First, my questions are: which books of "his" do you want to recommend and why? If you do recommend any, I hope by now you have heard that much of what he published he plagiarized from other fundamentalists like E.W. Bullinger, J.E. Stiles, etc.. This fact is documented in many places here on GSC and other websites.. In my opinion, I would not recommend his books based on that fact alone. Also, there are some of his books that have his name as the author but were not written by him. They were written by various members of this biblical research team over the years. None of those people are at TWI headquarters any longer. There are good reasons for that. I'll finish by saying that once you begin looking into what Wierwille's teachings in his books really are, you'll see they prop up the assertion called "inerrancy of the Scripture." VPW put it like this: the Bible is God's Word, God is perfect, therefore His Word is perfect. He didn't say which version of the Bible is God's Word (there are many).There are mountains of problems with inerrancy and with VPW's simplistic statement about the Bible having to be perfect. Think about each part of his statement. Have you done that? If you are going to recommend a book to someone, it is a good idea to know what that book is really promoting. To me, much of VPW's positions reflected in his books are demeaning to other Christians' points of view, bigoted against other religions, and he often twisted Scripture and used it out of context to support his ideas. (he is not the only one who does this). Example: He insisted that the Greek word for "soldiers" in Ephesians chapter six, "must be wrong" because believers are athletes. Again, why did he make things up like that? He cherry-picked what he wanted from the Bible. Sometimes he took things literally, other times figuratively. So, as you can see it is not my choice to recommend anything he has his name on. It's up to you. But think about what you are promoting. What kind of behaviors result from believing the dogmas that VPW claimed as "the truth?" In my experience, which was 17 years in TWI and as a member of his "research team," believing TWI teachings narrowed my mind, warped my identity, limited my choices. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Ciao for now, Penworks

Just listened to it. Good point about our "nature" is to trust others. Can't go through life otherwise very well, but we need to keep our wits about us and ask good questions when something sounds "too good to be true." Keep our B.S. detectors plugged in!

Maybe some of you know this, but TWI has put out a few more websites. I think they think the links give them a way to use search engines on the web to get more recruits. Does anyone know if this online "outreach" is bringing in more naïve followers? As usual, no qualifications are listed for anyone at The Way doing their "biblical research." No transparency about anything is available. On their original site, these links appear in the right-hand side-bar: thewayinternational.com thewaymagazine.com thewayministries.org thewayinternational.weebly.com thewayinternational.strikingly.com

Hi Raf, glad you enjoyed my story. And JayDee, too. There's a professor of "Extreme Religions" who has assigned Undertow this term for his students to read before I speak with them about my experience. This teacher has said this story does what you pointed out - shows how recruitment works and the gradual way people become enmeshed in a high-control group. That was one of the intentions I had when writing it...bring some understanding to the table about that. P.S. if anyone wants to ask me questions about my story "offline," there's a Contact page on my website for that. http://charlenedge.com. I aim to respond within 24 hours. Cheers.

T-Bone, I love this: "Freedom of the mind requires not only, or not even specially, the absence of legal constraints but the presence of alternative thoughts." For some alternative thoughts, some of you might like to read other folks stories about "spiritual abuse" at SAR, a new website produced by the International Cultic Studies Association. Last summer, ICSA published a mini version of my story in their magazine, ICSA Today. It is now posted on SAR. The stories are testimonies about a variety of high-control groups. The common thread: control. Cheers!

So sad. Beyond sad ... it's despicable how people were manipulated, hurt, and used in TWI. My heart goes out to all who were hurt by TWI leaders/members, beginning with VPW who was the one who modeled destructive behavior in the name of following God's Word. Not all leaders became equally destructive, but the potential was there. In my opinion, the root of all the evil perpetrated at TWI was VPW. It all goes back to him. Do not forget that. I knew him. I often wish I'd never met him, but I did meet him, and I was trained by him, and I learned hard lessons. I wasn't paying enough attention. I rationalized his bad behavior. I let his showmanship cloud my judgement about him. T-Bone put it well, "You cannot make someone pay attention to something that he or she does not want to notice." Wake up, people. Do not let TWI doctrines make you feel you should obey them or obey TWI leaders or TWI followers' idealistic view of what The Way is. It is not a transparent organization. Where on their website do you see any credentials for what they say they do best: biblical research? No where.

Yes, the ripples continue. I knew Joey, the author of this article, when he was a baby. I knew his parents at HQ when we were there working on staff and when he was born. His father and mother made their decision to stay at the same time I decided to go. His father and I had a conversation in 1986 when I was resigning from the research team. I expressed my concerns CLEARLY about how messed up the leaders were, as well as the research (which he knew some of) and his reply was only that he needed time to think about things. Obviously, he thought differently than I did ... This son had no chance to decide. He was in TWI because of his parents. Like so many other kids, the choice to be involved with TWI was their parents', not theirs, and this puts things in a different light. My daughter was 12 yrs. old when we broke from TWI. Only recently she told me she had thought we believed VPW was Jesus Christ! Good grief. Now, I know no one ever said that out loud. Never did I tell her that is what we believed, because we did not believe that outrageous idea (at least I didn't). But evidently, as a little girl, she picked up on the way we showered VPW with adoration, kowtowed to his authority on "the Word," and repeated his name all the time, made him into a "king" of sorts. So in her little girl mind, she made that horrific connection. Very telling ...

Thank you for your service here at GSC, Skyrider. I, too, feel an obligation to help mitigate damage. Some of you know, I was a clergyman's wife and biblical researcher at HQ. Keep offering "the other side of the story" and you never know who it may help around the world. As someone pointed out, there will be personal bias in our stories (which is unavoidable since we are human beings) but that is the value here, as together, they verify so much about TWI that has been hidden. I'm reminded of that old story about the many people with one hand on an elephant. Each person describes the elephant in terms of the part they touch. Added together, the descriptions offer the big picture.

Thanks so much for sharing your story, T-Bone. You and Tonto are an inspiration! I love it that you pointed out that you're "into developing empathy." In my view, that is a major step in getting us healed from the narcissistic mindset of our past cult life. The ability to put ourselves in someone else's shoes is not always easy. Oddly, during our Way Corps training, in our public speaking class, one principle we were taught from Carnegie was "to try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view." But often we failed at that because we thought we were right all the time when it came to what the Bible said, what God wanted for us, etc. etc. When you think you're right, it's pretty darn hard to see things from another's point of you, but even if you can, you've already made the judgment that their point of view is WRONG. So having a conversation, a civil back and forth, respectful one, is impossible. Thank goodness, when we realize that "certainty" is not possible about most things, we can relax, admit we're human, and appreciate other people ... Forgive me if I'm "preaching." This is just what's on my mind this morning. I'm fresh from Facebook where someone (a Way Corps guy who married one of my 2nd Corps sisters) accused me of supporting Sharia Law and killing babies because I showed up at the Women's March in Orlando to show support for the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, and golden rule. Go figure ...

FREE first chapter of Undertow, "Hiding in Plain Sight" is now stored on my website at http://charleneedge.com/3550-2/ Thank you, readers, for the feedback on the story that you've sent me so far. Feel free to leave a comment at the end of any of my blog posts. Cheers!

Hear, hear!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for writing your story here, Skyrider. So many of us can relate to the pain you went through, the turmoil, the confusion and loss. But you are brave. You are a survivor. You are dear to us.

Hi readers, First, thank you for the outpouring of interest in Undertow. I'm grateful many of you have found it worthwhile. Most of you know now that Undertow is for sale on Amazon (it is also at Barnes and Noble. In Australia, a few people have found it at the Book Depository. Independent booksellers can also get copies directly from the print-on-demand company, Ingram Lightning Source). Rocky suggested folks think about writing reviews of Undertow on Amazon, which is wonderful. BUT a word of caution: I found important advice about how Amazon views the validity of reviews, etc, in this this article. That said, I welcome your responses there or on my website. If you ever want to contact me directly with comments about the book, you can always leave a message on my website Contact page. Cheers!

I agree with Rocky. Keep sharing, Skyrider. Take it from me, telling one's personal story is revealing, not only to readers, but to the writer. So write on! Tell us more about the experience whenever you feel so inclined. Cheers!

Hi folks. Hope you're having a happy holiday season. I'm checking in just to let those interested know that Undertow is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and local bookstores can order it, too. If you go to my website, you'll see links to Amazon and B&N in place of the other buy button I had for the first 30 days when I sold Undertow direct from my front porch Thank you for the lovely emails and comments here and on Facebook. I am grateful my story is proving helpful to so many people! You can read the first chapter of Undertow, called "Hiding in Plain Sight" in the Blog section at the bottom of my Home page. Later, it will be stored on the website under the "Writing Undertow" blog category. Wishing you all the best in 2017! Charlene

So, is Doop's book available to the public?

Rocky, this is a very important issue. I am glad you posted this link to more info about it. It is rampant in our society. How to offset it? Education and practices that cultivate empathy. Cheers.