ChristAlone

I'm really upset to hear that Pond. You deserve to be happy and anyone who is standing in the way of that is most likely not happy themselves. They can not give what they themselves do not possess. I can only speak for myself here so don't take this as a "reproof" but my honest opinion. TWI was NOT of God. Wierwille was a false prophet and lived worse than most pagans who never even knew God. Therefore his spirit still controls the offshoots such as CES and STF because they still call him the teacher and consider him the m.o.g. when the Bible tells us people who lived like he did will have no inheritance in His Kingdom. The only one I trust now as my teacher is Christ. None of the so called prophets I followed died for me so why should I trust them? I can truly say that I have joy in my life now and am blessing people in my community with good fruits. PFAL classes, conferences, books and tapes are come from the root of the same tree. That's why the offshuts are going down the same destructive path. They have not held Christ as their head but put their faith in the teachings of a false prophet. The only way I was able to break free and regain my joy was to get honest with myself and do the following: 1.) Admit and renounce the false prophet whom I followed. 2.) Ask Jesus for forgiveness for following anyone but him in the first place. 3.) Put my faith in Christ alone and asked God for wisdom. I don't keep looking back at what my old cult is doing now because I've left them completely. That's how I know that I am free for he/she whom the Son frees is free indeed! Jesus can break those chains of sorrow and pain. I know he did it for me and he will do it for you. Bless you much Pond, ChristAlone

Good point Pond! Think about it though. If they have the mind of Christ and let the Bible have the final say, you would not see all of this confusion and jockeying for domination. That's Satan's deal! As long as they keep revereing Momentus and Wierwille as the m.o.g. they will continue to fight, split, offshut and fail. That's why the Bible says: "...For if their purpose or activity is of HUMAN origin, it will fail." Acts 5:38 20/20 hindsight shows that they have already failed and ruined many lives in the process of doing so. So we can see this ministry is of human origin producing rotten fruit all along the way. Bless God I'm free now though! Blessings, ChristAlone

Catcup, It really doesn't matter what goes over where. I don't speak to please people just what I have found has helped me. Notice all of your replies have degraded to ad hominems and personal attacks. I simply quoted the Bible, nothing more. I'm sorry if by doing so, I have upset you. Be blessed and go in peace. ChristAlone

Well, Catcup that is why I said admitting what I could have done according to what the BIBLE has to offer could help. I never said anything about being "too clever to fall for another trap". Look, there are people here who no longer want to do the "victim thing". I can say, I did not read the Bible to heed Jesus' & Paul's teachings about false shepards. That was my bad! So I take some responsibility for what happened. If someone warns me about something and I disregard their message to proceed anyway, did I do everything I could to protect myself and others from the outcome? Probably not. So I am saying this about myself but if someone sees it also applies to them, well fine. Love ya! ChristAlone

Hey Catcup, You know in your heart of hearts what I quoted from the Bible was true and on point. EVERYBODY, me included, has made mistakes in this life, some more serious and far reaching than others. The Bible is simply telling us just how serious it is to ourselves and others' salvation to make sure we have the right doctrine. The "reproof" you feel from my post is really God speaking to your conscience from the Bible. I've admitted my error and moved on. I wasn't trying to hit you with a guilt trip. However, unless we can see and admit where we've "missed it", we are destined to repeat the same mistakes, taking others down with us. So if you feel a little uncomfortable, well, just think of people whose lives have never recovered normalcy because of TWI and other cults like it. Bless you in Jesus' name, ChristAlone

Thanks Waysider! I only want us to take control and responsibility for getting involved in a cult so we don't end up being victimized again. If we don't assess what we could have done differently, what is to stop us from falling into the next trap some loud-mouth sets? Bless you much, ChristAlone

Catcup, I agree with most of what you said above. If someone did not know, they did not know. You were just as much the victim as everyone else which was my point in response to saying the twig leaders tried to protect lower members. However, Biblically that still doesn't quite leave us off the hook for what happens to others because of the bad seed we have passed along: "Watch your life and DOCTRINE closely. Preserve them because if you do so, you will save both yourself AND your hearers. " 1 Timothy 4:16 See, it says watch your doctrine. Even if we were not privy to the sick antics of the cult leaders, we can assess their doctrine against what the Bible actually says. Loose morals may have began at the top but I know others were involved with immorality in the general membership too. That's why the Bible says we are to "watch our life and doctrine" because we will save both ourselves and our hearers. The salvation of OTHERS is involved in this! Once again my point is that if the root is bad so will be the whole tree. Others may think otherwise, but Jesus said a good tree can not bear bad fruit and by their fruits you will know them. We all have the responsibility to make sure we are not preaching another Gospel as Paul said there would be ananthma's or curses for doing so. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be accursed!" Galations 1:8 Ouch!!!! This is the result of preaching another Gospel.... a cursed life. Perhaps this is why the Bible says that not many of us should be teachers?: "Not many of you should presume to be teachers my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1 So, it goes with the territory. Better make sure the stuff is right because we teachers will be judged more strictly! Perhaps we didn't know of the rape, drunkeness and other excesses at the top, but we should examine the doctrine which was clearly contray to what the Bible taught. Baptism was only one red flag. Jesus commanded his followers to baptize but Wierwille says don't bother. So whose doctrine did people follow? Yep. Now, I believe that there is no sin that can not be covered under the blood of Christ. Still, unless we see our responsibility to guard our lives and doctrine as the Bible says we should, we may find ourselves repeating the same mistakes. Looking behind at a trail of ruined lives, some irrepairably, I can't just dismiss it all by saying, "Well, I didn't know what was going on." Bless God I never recruited anyone into my cult and once I actually read the Bible for myself, I was out of there. Only because I loved the truth more than staying in the cult was I able to break free from the deluding spirit they are all bound by. Bless you! ChristAlone

Hi Shazdancer, I underlined your last thought above to show that the corruption of the root eventually rose to the tree. What needs could your fellowship leaders meet that Christ could not? Whatever the case, this doesn't change the fact that we were ALL in a cult following a false prophet and his Satanic doctrines. You can have a genuine love for people all you like but still be under the delusion & power of Satan. That delusion makes you think that the leader's adulteries, drunkeness & lies aren't really "all that bad", in spite of the fact that the Bible says such people will have no inheritance in God's Kingdom. It also makes one an accomplice if they are recruiting others to follow a wolf in sheep's clothing who abuses the flock. Something about having a millstone strung around my neck just doesn't sound too appealing. When people begin to say, "Well, if they just didn't do this or that, the cult would have been alright", I really start feeling sick to my stomach. There is just no way of salvaging anything of Satan. I am SO glad that I am now free to serve my God and His Christ that I have no desire to look back or be back in a cult. I was wrong to have followed any man but Christ and I am not ashamed to admit my mistake. That was the first step to being restored. I pray that everyone here finds that same freedom and peace. Bless you, ChristAlone

Good point. If the root is bad, so will the entire tree be. After having 20/20 hindsight, I can't imagine anyone still in doubt that twi wasn't God's ministry. In this case the issue is following Wierwille as a prophet and man of God when the Bible clearly says to do otherwise. Here are some lessons we should have learned from the Bible first: 1.) That we should not be called teacher, leader or Rabbi because one is our teacher, CHRIST. "But you are not to be called Rabbi, (teacher), for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. " Matthew 23:8 2.) That we should not try to fool ourselves into thinking that anyone living a sinful life is approved as a man/woman of God. Do not be misled:"Bad company corrupts good character." 34. Come back to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame. 1 Corn 15:33-34 3.) To understand that your "twig" coordinator was just as lost as everyone else because they too were under the deceptive spirit of a false prophet. "10 and in every sort of evil that deceived those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved. For this reason, God sends them a POWERFUL DELUSION so that they will believe the lie...." 2 Thess 2:10 It's pretty clear that these false prophets are themselves deluded by Ha-Satan. The so named m.o.g. and his trustees were all under that power of deception. 4.) The only "protection" a twig leader could give was to tell you to get out of that cult and put your faith in Christ, not self proclaimed prophets who lived worse than pagans. Paul admonished the true followers of Christ: "I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people 10 not al all meaning the people of this world who are immoral or the greedy and swindlers or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who CALLS HIMSELF A BROTHER but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolator or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. "1 Corn 5:9-11 If we follow the scriptures themselves rather than a man or a woman CLAIMING to know the Bible, we can avoid all this abuse and heartache. We have to love the truth of God's word over the charismatic personalities of cult leaders. Blessings to All, ChristAlone

Great news TempleLady!!! Walk on! Dance on too to praise God!!! Congrats, ChristAlone

Thanks Mark! This is what has worked for my freedom from a cult and I know others are still trapped. Unless we are willing to acknowledge and cut out the root of our deception, we will keep going in circles until we find yet another false prophet to follow. This is what the Bible speaks of as being blown about by every wind of doctrine. Yep. There's a lot of hot air blowing out there! "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of TEACHERS to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3 1 Timothy 4:16 tells us to: watch our life AND doctrine closely. Persevere in them because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. See, it is that important! I don't know about anyone else but I would never want to tell someone to follow the teachings of someone whom I KNEW was a liar, adulterer, thief or drunk. These are the types of people who will have NO inheritance in the Kingdom, so why should anyone follow them? So they can get nothing too? "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9 Jesus says if a blind man leads another blind man, both will fall into the pit. Get real! These so called prophets and teachers have nothing to offer you that you can not obtain from God through Christ by simply asking. Both God and Jesus says "ASK!!!" Ask and do so in faith believing that you have already received that which you've requested. Yes, Mark, I saw your message as soon as I logged on. Cool! Sure, I've done quite a bit of both writing and editing. I would be happy to help in research too. Good Bible articles at your website. I've gotten through most of them already except the last two or so. Bless ya & Praise our Almighty God and His Christ! ChristAlone

Hi Mr. Hammeroni! Hey, that's good if they denouce any false prophet publically! Your observations and gut feelings are dead on. Unless someone has actually come to grips that the person whom they followed was NOT of God, they will CONTINUE to be deceived. Hence their glowing words, plastic grin and still referring to the reprobate at "Teacher". You are not the only one who gets a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when you STILL hear people gushing over Wierwille being a prophet and man of God. Now we have 20/20 hindsight on how destructive his lifestyle and teachings actually were. Give me a break!!! It's like ripping the curtain off the Wizard of Oz's sound booth. Once you have uncovered the fraud, don't try to justify or defend it. Remove yourself from it. It really is the first step out of bondage. Call that spade a spade and get yourself free already. Excellent quote too: "A true lamb of God doesn't eat the flock." You know, you have a LOT of insight for a little squirrel! Now you've got me thinking of pecans as I already went to the store for pistachios. Bless you Guru of Ham, ChristAlone

Hey Mark! Yes, I actually did read the articles under your first link but I had already been reading CES literature when Personal Prophecy began rearing its ugly head. They had sort of a "training manual" on the subject which I read but was not convinced of it's Biblicality. Didn't take long for the spiders and harlots to appear, right? Whoa! I stopped by your Christian Herald website. Great minds DO think alike! We agree and have come to many of the same conclusions because we have the mind of Christ. "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corn. 2:16 I know this to be true because of the good fruit I am bearing now that I am connected to the TRUE Vine, Christ Jesus. Here's one gem from your article on Lordship that I especially found noteworthy: "Any religious leader who is oppressive and arrogant has not followed Jesus' example of meekness and service. It also seems the more religiously authoritarian and powerful the leaders are the more at enmity they will be with Jesus' words and example. My favorite rationalization, however, is the line, "well, the devil just laid all these sins on us because we were doing so much good for God and his word.î People may have used lines similar to this in the Bible when confronted, but I assure you that this half hearted repentance was not well received." How true, how true. These blinders are what keep these individuals from really repenting and receiving what Christ has for them to do for HIS body. Your points also about these "leaders" wanting to assume the intermediary position of Christ, were also excellent. CES and many others are so afraid of letting go of Wierwillism and just going with Christ as the final expositor of the will of his Father and his God. They don't see that unless they repent of having followed a false prophet, they will continue in his spirit and not receive the spirit of Christ. Here's my 4-Step Program for breaking free: 1. Confess your sins and denouce the false prophet you followed by name. This is the most important step! 2. Promise to follow no man other than Christ and make him your only Lord, Leader and Rabbi. 3. Ask God for wisdom and a new heart to do His will and understand your place in the Body of His Son, Jesus Christ. 4. Move on and start getting involved in your community extending love to people of all denominations & faiths. (i.e. you might volunteer at a nursing home, orphanage, soup kitchen or charity organization) Having been in a cult isolates one to the point that they become afraid of being "contaminated" by false doctrines, (i.e. trinity, eternal hell-fire ) . That is living like a Pharisee. It is not what comes from without but what comes from within that makes someone spiritually unclean. (Matthew 15:11) Once we get over that, we can then show compassion on others whom Christ also died for. Remember, we too believed things that were false according to the leaders we chose to follow. God forgave us so how can refuse to help those who are trapped in centuries of manmade doctrines and church traditions? We have the unique opportunity to bless others with the truth of who Jesus really is as opposed to "another Christ", Paul said some would profess. Your website does a wonderful job of just that and I am sure you are also sharing in person. Mark, I have bookmarked your informative website and have begun to read the articles you have posted there. Thank you for your warm welcome and encouragement too. May God continue to use you mightily in His service! Blessings in Messiah, ChristAlone

Wow, thanks dmiller, I do feel truly welcome now having been offered both coffee AND nuts! You guys are the best. Blessings! ChristAlone

Oh Mr. Hammeroni! I love pecans!!! I will take you up on that nutty offer. Well, when you think about it, a huckster or con artist by definition knows he is being dishonest. That's why he over-inflates the value of his product. He wants to turn a BIG profit. That would include copying someone else's books without citing your sources and then claiming you came to these conclusions by God's spirit and studying the Bible yourself. You know you plagerized someone else's material and it is not yours but you pass it off as yours anyway. That's a huckster! I agree they could believe that they, have the finest knowledge before time began. Yet, that's how complete the satanic spirit of deception is. Read in the Bible about the lying spirit sent to the prophets in King Ahab's day: "Finally a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD (Yahweh), and said, 'I will entice him'. 'By what means?' the LORD asked. 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets' Kings 22:22 There you go. Those prophets believed they were speaking for God too. However they were the prophets of wicked King Ahab, serving and consenting with him in his court. Guess what? Ahab was an evil idolator!!! <_< Let us not forget whom Jesus indentified as being the prince of the air and the god of this world. You guessed it. Satan. So those who unrepentently choose to lie, steal and fornicate among other wicked acts are his agents, not God's. Just like the prophets in debauched King Ahab's court, Satan puts a lying spirit in the mouth of his prophets today to lead people away from Christ. So these false prophets may believe their guff all they want. The source is still SATANIC. So................got any walnuts on you? Pistachios? I'm hopeless! Now I have to make a trip to the market. Thank you for the warm welcome & Bless you Mr. Hammeroni, revered master of ham, :) ChristAlone