Larry N Moore

You're very welcome Jean. If you're going to call yourself childish for asking for help, then I guess that makes me childish for giving it to you. I think I'm running out of crayon colors. ;)

Well, if that's how it seems to you I'll have to work on expressing myself better. The phrase "Each word is a gift." simply reminded me of what James says about our words. Our words can be a blessing or a curse. I wasn't saying that your words are -- in fact I was complimenting you on what I have observed about you -- (other than the Eeyore comment -- which you explained wasn't an insult) I find you are full of grace in the way you express yourself. Now, I'm wondering if even that (above) is going to be misunderstood. I hope not.

Oh. Ok. My bad.

back at ya. I'm glad you could grace this thread with your thoughts. That reminds me of James 3:10 and 13 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. Obviously the word "man" is an all-inclusive noun 'cause you certainly are wise and endued with knowledge.

I couldn't help thinking -- Could GSC be a "crutch" in itself for some members? One of the benefits of religion is social in nature. As a social "animal" it can be said we psychologically need the support and nurture we find in groups. If that need is normal -- why is it un-normal to find it in a religion or a god or a discussion board?

If I knew there was some reward for answering the questions I probably would have answered them. I suppose the ole saying -- "You get what you pay for." has some validity to it after-all Garth. You didn't pay for anything so, don't be surprised if nothing is what you get. ;)

Don't fret it Pond. Is this . . . . . . . the topic? If so, I think we all (those of us who believe in God) use God as a "crutch." After-all even God, Himself, tells us to. Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Isn't "leaning" on God analogically the same as leaning on a crutch? A crutch being something one relies on for support. Would you walk up on a person, using a crutch, and kick it out from underneath him/her? Why would anyone do that unless they were just a tad bit mean?

Pond, you and I share something in common -- my son has pretty much given up on believing there is a God. It's a subject we rarely talked about when he was going through the process. I figured the best thing I could do was/is not to be judgmental or critical of him -- and regardless of what conclusions he would ultimately come to would not change the most important thing we shared -- our love for each other. We get along quite well and have a blast in each other's company. I don't know if any of this really addresses the points you are making -- I just felt like sharing it for what it's worth.

Jean, on the top of the reply page you'll find a button with an "A" with an downward pointing arrow. Highlight your text and click on a color.

I'm present (but unaccounted for) -- my dear.

I can't remember who first brought this up but it's an excellent point. I've read a book once -- It might have been written by T D Jakes -- which covered this topic. Darn memory! Anyways, I believe it's part of our human psyche to get angry. Meaning that it can be healthy. Seeing that God "created" us and part of our being is to have emotions I don't see why God would not expect us to get angry -- even if our anger is directed towards Him. I suppose the only thing we should keep in mind is to "not let the sun go down on our wrath." I can't remember how many times I've been angry at God for one thing or another. Haven't been struck by a lightening bolt yet. :)

I suppose Jefferson could easily take the position that since Jesus was silent on the issue of slavery that that meant it was morally acceptable. It's interesting how people will spin anything to justify their world-view. Don't ya agree?

Thomas Jefferson. Great man. Too bad he was a slave owner though.

This is an excellent point as well Jean. Fear, seldom makes one truly appreciative of God. Worshipping a god because you fear him/it is not exactly my idea of love. And I'm not so sure it really is an indication of respect.

Cman, if you insist on derailing this thread -- have at it. I will not assist you in your agenda.

2 Cor 4:4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." Rev 3:9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

True but, only two that are related to the same issue. :)

Good example Jean! I can recall many of my own experiences mirroring what you have pointed out here. It's unfortunate that someone would prefer to believe God has a purpose for their sickness instead of thinking that if they weren't sick it would make it possible for them to do so much more for the Lord. Besides that -- it's not really a good witness of God's benevolence to a non-believer. Why would a non-believer want to accept a God who makes you sick to prove a point?

:) Well, there ya have it George. Oh and George -- you asked two questions, not one. ;)

Abi, you have a wonderful heart! Although I realize I come across as unsympathetic or intolerant of others' quests I too ultimately hope God will show her what she needs to see. Shifra -- I apologize if I have offended you.

Abi, I can agree with you on many points but I honestly have to disagree with you on the point that Shifra is taking a unbiased approach to examining Paul's motives. She has made it known (re-read her OP and subsequent posts) that she's always disliked Paul. What I see her doing is attempting to buttress the dislike she's ALWAYS had regarding Paul. Now, she's definitely a sweet person -- of that I have no doubt -- but it would be dishonest of me to praise her for embarking on her "quest" without pointing out that she has already determined where it should lead -- that being -- Paul is a man not to be liked or praised. How can someone use the writings of one questionable source to attack the writings of another questionable source? Do you see what I mean?

Abi the problem with this (that I have after reading through the link) is there are some scholars who question the authenticity of this Gospel being written by Barnabas. To conclude that it is authentic without considering what other scholars say about it is problematic. It tends to imply that you (not you personally) only want to believe what supports your thesis.

I think it fits in quite nicely with what I'm talking about. I didn't start this topic to "argue" with anyone but rather to read the thoughts of others on the subject. Whatever comes to mind to another is "fitting" as far as I'm concerned. I may add a comment from time to time but for now I'm more interested in reading and giving thought to what others say. And I thank you all for your responses.

The question is hypothetical. "If you knew . . . ." It doesn't matter how you would know.

Here's a question I've often pondered. If you knew that sharing your viewpoint would ultimately convince someone to not believe in God would you still share it? (Assuming you would want people to draw nearer to God – not away from Him). The verse I'm always reminded of (but struggle following) is Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. Although I am guilty of speaking words to others that don't (and aren't intended to) edify them I've always been reluctant to speak any words that may cause someone to turn away from believing in and/or believing God. Is there another way of understanding that verse which would justify speaking words which can potentially cause someone to abandon their faith?