bowtwi

What a great idea! Such fun!

How about declaring it today or tomorrow? Hap's GS Birthday.

Oh man, just when I think I won't be surprised by what twi did to their brethren something like this comes along. Those miserable somebodys!

Very interesting, indeed! I wonder if this study has been proven - sure looks like it could lead to the common denominator. I'd like to hear more.

Anybody ever play Feds and Heads? It was a board game based very loosely on the game LIFE. It came in an issue of Playboy. My ex wrote them in the later 70's requesting a copy and when they sent it he laminated all the pieces and glued the paper gameboard to a piece of plywood. It was a hoot. It had the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers (I think that's who those truckin dudes is are right dmille?). Some mighty wild stories got told during that game.

Yikes! I've read and re-read your last post, jkb, but I'm confused. I think you're addressing a hypothetical case scenario of the possibility that the Peeler case may be dismissed, but it has not as of yet. As it is presently scheduled, do you know if this is the beginning of the actual trial or if it's another pre-trial hearing to determine if there will be a trial at some future, not-yet-scheduled date?

(((((Cool))))) Man oh man, can I ever relate to so much of what you said. I have no more free time this morning, but I know it had to be tough to share all that! I pray you find it helps you to let it out. It sure has helped me. Of all the women I know that I speak so personally with, I have to say that more women have been molested at some point in their life than have not ever been molested at all. This is completely unacceptable. I pray that by keeping this and other conversations like this going that we'll soon hit on a real, workable solution to this ever increasing danger. This damage just doesn't go away on its own.

We've had lots of robins and even 5 cardinals in my burning bush for the past 3 or 4 weeks. We've got daffodils in full bloom, buds are starting on lots of trees. I was sure spring had sprung. I'm in the Kansas City area. Today it's really cold out here (mid 30's) and we're expecting a lot of snow. Sheesh! Veddy interestink!

Belle, I first was introduced to Ro*tel as a wow in Santa Fe, NM. A lady I worked for gave me my first Ro*tel recipe. Since then, over 10 years ago, I always have at least one can in my pantry. I found that recipe on their site so I've pasted it below. Thanks for bringing their site to my attention. I see several recipes I've tried, but lots more that I haven't. New recipes are an exciting adventure, as we learned somewhere in our common pasts - LOL (I can't stand cream of mushroom soup so I use cream of chicken.) Original RO*TEL Recipe KING RANCH CHICKEN Ingredients: 1/4 cup margarine 1 medium green bell pepper, chopped 1 medium onion, chopped 1 can (10 3/4 oz.) condensed cream of mushroom soup 1 can (10 3/4 oz.) condensed cream of chicken soup 1 can (10 oz.) RO*TEL Diced Tomatoes & Green Chilies 2 cups cubed cooked chicken 12 corn tortillas, torn into bite-sized pieces 2 cups (8 oz.) shredded cheddar cheese Directions: Preheat oven to 325 degrees F. In a large saucepan, cook pepper and onion in melted margarine until tender, about 5 minutes. Add soups, RO*TEL and chicken, stirring until well blended. In a 13 x 9 x 2-inch baking pan, alternately layer tortillas, soup mixture and cheese, repeating for three layers. Bake 40 minutes or until hot and bubbling. Serves 8.

(((((Rascal))))) Thanks so much for joining this discussion. You are one of the best mothers I've ever known and I really appreciate your input. I've been in your home and have seen you in action with your beloved kiddos. I'm tremendously proud of you and have great respect for your dedication. I feel like quoting your entire post, but I left it at just the last two paragraphs. I don't see what you said as minimalising anyone's experience. I think it speaks to the real heart of the problem. Sometimes I look at the children in my Annie's 4th grade class and I think I can see who gets the attention at home that it takes to make a child feel valued. It's been my experience too that the kids with that sense of self worth you and I didn't have as kids are the easier ones to victimize. All my childhood my mom let me go with any adult that seemed willing to keep me for awhile. My mom was busy. She had 3 other kids - if one was gone that lightened her load. My mom often worked 2 jobs at a time, leaving us unsupervised. Unsupervised children might as well have targets right on their foreheads. The first molestation episode I recall I was spending a week at one of my mom's married friend's homes - and I had a windbreaker jacket on. One end of the string to tie it shut at my waist wasn't hanging out of it's place so I couldn't secure my jacket. This slimy old creep insisted that he could get it for me in less than a minute. Right there in front of this nice mom and dad, he fiddled about with that string end, actually placing his hand inside my panties during the process. Sure, he got the string into place for me, but it certainly hadn't been inside my panties. I tried to tell my mom when I got home, but she wasn't up for hearing about it. Then and there I learned that I couldn't ever tell her. I never told her about anything else as long as she lived. I never trusted her again as long as she lived. When you can't trust your own mom, and don't even know your father, all you have hope of is other adults. Maybe because it's so obvious it gets overlooked. Maybe I'm just too simple to get it. I believe if we supervise our children properly, it'll be a lot harder for them to get their jollies off OUR kids. One of my favorite things to hear my kids say is that they know their mom respects them. What power they have knowing that. They know what they're worth to me and that makes them worth more to themselves. I try to always make time to hear what they want to tell me about. That way they're used to sharing their thoughts and activities with me, so it's natural to tell me even the hard stuff to say. I'm curious to know your thoughts on how to deal with pedophiles, if you wouldn't mind.

I'm so glad to hear of the next date. Is this the date of the actual trial or is it more preliminary stuff? Do you have any idea how long they expect the trial to last? Do you know if it's expected to be rescheduled or if twi's about to cave? Would you be likely enough to know and if so, would you please post this info as soon as you know it? I intend to attend the trial and have some preparations I'll need to make ahead of time.

The Parable of the Spoons A holy man was having a conversation with the Lord one day and said, "Lord, I would like to know what Heaven and Hell are like. " The Lord led the holy man to two doors. He opened one of the doors and the holy man looked in. In the middle of the room was a large round table. In the middle of the table was a large pot of stew which smelled delicious and made the holy man's mouth water. The people sitting around the table were thin and sickly. They appeared to be famished. They were holding spoons with very long handles that were strapped to their arms and each found it possible to reach into the pot of stew and take a spoonful, but because the handle was longer than their arms, they could not get the spoons back into their mouths. The holy man shuddered at the sight of their misery and suffering. The Lord said, "You have seen Hell." They went to the next room and opened the door. It was exactly the same as the first one. There was the large round table with the large pot of stew which made the holy man's mouth water. The people were equipped with the same long-handled spoons, but here the people were well nourished and plump, laughing and talking. The holy man said, "I don't understand." It is simple" said the Lord, "it requires but one skill. You see, they have learned to feed each other. While the greedy think only of themselves. "A friend is someone who reaches for your hand, and touches your heart." "People say true friends must always hold hands, but true friends don't need to hold hands because they know the other hand will always be there...."

Chatty asked: "But if he were dead because of his actions towards me alone I could not live with that. I don't know how to explain it better." I would encourage you to consider terms like, “he was put to death because he violated an American child and that’s just not tolerated in America. Yes, I happen to BE that American child, but it’s not because it was ME, Chatt Y. Kathy. If he had done that to ANY American child, he’d still be as dead as he is now.” There's just no excuse for molesting American children. That would be my first attempt to help settle your heart. You deserve your heart to be at peace. You are an American, a child of the greatest country in the world. Part of what makes us so great is how our children are our priority. Mess with one of OUR precious children and it’ll be the last thing you do. (I know this isn’t today’s reality, but it’s my hope for our children.. By the way, I understand that Michael Jackson has moved to a country where the laws against child molestation are not as strict as here in present day America.) Just like it’s not your fault that your mom was raped, it’s the molester’s own actions that sealed his fate. In my fantasy society, it would be common knowledge that anyone who molests an American child would be put to death. So, as far as I can see, anyone who molested an American child would be asking to be put to death. Reminds me of the current “Suicide by Cop” epidemic in our society. I also feel as you do about not ever having considered doing to another child what was done to you. I just can’t understand how these pedophiles can possibly see anything sexual in the body of a baby, a toddler, a youngster. I think that’s really good that we can’t. It’d be far more horrific if we DID see them as sexual beings. Maybe that’s where those urges start, I don’t know. I think the fact you don’t see them that way is proof that your mind wasn’t warped into one that could allow you to behave that way. That’s something to hold on to and be thankful for. It really could have been much worse. I’m not able to watch movies where rapes occur. When I start to feel like that’s about to happen, I have to either leave the room or change the channel. I don’t see how anyone at all can see that as entertainment. In my family we almost never have spoken of the molestation of our youth. We were forced to when we found our little brother last fall. I know that it was worse for me to hear of things he went through as a child that I was unaware of than it was for me to go through molestation and even rape myself. I have also had to deal with the guilt of not having protected him, my little brother. A lot of the conversations we’ve had since last fall have been painful, but they seem to be helping pull off the layers of shame and disgust. I say this because even though it’s very difficult to speak of this subject, I find it worth it because of the healing it brings. Healing is so good.

Sweet peace to you on your birthday, dear Chatty.

Chatty - I wrote this big old response to you, well thought out and worded carefully. Then I somehow lost it on my way to posting it. I'll try to re-say it. The choices your mom had back then were different than the choices we moms have today. Let's don't compare apples and oranges. How your mom raised you to be such a loving and kind lady with all she had survived is beyond me. I wouldn't trade places with her for a minute. I think if your molester grandpa had been put to death for what he did to you, from the moment you understood that he was dead, you would have known he couldn't attack you again. Somewhere in that knowlege is comfort. Sad comfort, but comfort nonetheless. I'm not really a hard-hearted person looking for excuses to kill people. I was kidnapped and raped at gunpoint when I was a teenager as some sort of message to my then boyfriend. I understand that that rapist became dead shortly after the rape. I can honestly say that I slept better knowing that he could never come and take me away and rape me again. To this day I have no regret that he's dead. And yes, you're right - we have to be willing to lose "friends" over telling the truth about child molestation. I'm very proud of you for protecting that little girl by telling her mom and risking losing a friend. That's one friendship lost for all the right reasons, on your end. I once told a friend of my mom's about a molestation. Long story shortened, my mom couldn't live with the fallout from that disclosure, so she broke friendship with the lady and threw me away and pretended not to know the truth. I spent my high school years in foster homes and a group home as a result. My mom spent those years in drunken denial. When I was 18, she killed herself. I know this pain all too well. My kids never will.

Ok, so there is no question about what I'm saying. Anybody, no matter who, no matter what sex, any man, woman, monkey, goat, any body at all, who molests a child and we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are guilty, that's who I think should be put to death for molesting children. Now, before we get carried away with what ifs, I'll add that there is a huge difference between a pedophile and children innocently exploring themselves and maybe each other. That's where diligent parenting comes in. WE need to be the experts on OUR children. We need to be watching them and noticing when they become curious about and steering them in decent directions.

Every time I watch the news and see the surveillance tape of that pedophile in Sarasota, FL, that kidnapped, raped and killed that 11-year-old named Carlie or that one in Lake County, FL, I believe it was, who kidnapped that little 8-year-old Jessica from right in her own bed in the trailer next door to the molester or others that have been convicted, served their time and get out of prison only to do it again, to destroy yet another child’s life and that child’s entire family, and now most recently that one in NC that hid the girls he kidnapped in an underground dungeon, well, I think to myself that dead pedophiles molest nobody else. I think if those men had been put to death that Carlie and Jessica would still be little girls living their lives. Their parents wouldn't be torturing themselves trying to figure out how to live without their children and how to protect others. I mean no offense to anyone that’s not a molester. I just know that you cannot undo that damage after the fact. I don’t know how to prevent a first-time molester, but I do believe we could and should stop repeat offenders.

Shellon said: Often times the perp who has destroyed several or many children, often even just the one that he's stuck with, doesn't even remember it. "Ummm lets see, were there 4? Wait, maybe that little boy when I lived in ____, and I'm not sure but maybe 3-4 more during that time I was living ____" But the CHILD never forgets and can often tell the exact date it started, the date is ended, and all the horror in between. What does it say about our society when we argue about whether or not a CHILD molester should be allowed his/her rights. No wonder CHILDREN so often don't even tell the grown ups. You get it! We have to take better care of our children than this! The only way to allow the child to forget is to remove the threat of repeat molestation. Dead pedophiles can't hurt anyone else.

Linda - If I were to fail my child to the end that they became a child molester, yes, I would have to see them put to death too. I don't care who it is. Maybe the idea of isolation and hope for rehab to work could have been implemented a hundred years ago, before the pedophile population became so huge. Maybe if there weren't so damned many of them we could try that. But these perverts often attack more than one child during the course of their raping spree. The only way that works every time to stop a molester from ever molesting again is to put them to death. Dead people molest nobody.

pond - I'll put my comments to your post in bold. You said "I had a very very pretty little girl . she is a beauty , and I worried alot because theywalked to school and she had brothers, and we always had people around. I worked and had things to do I know it was so possible . she is grown now , I can finaly say this.. I told her to bite .. You can finally say this now? You couldn't sooner why? Do you feel you taught her wrongly and are now admitting your error? bad mommy I am babd bad bad. She is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afriad of her she is loud and mean when she needs to be. she has always lead in her class and is now a manager at a small business. You think it's funny to be a bad mommy? Well, at least she is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afraid of her great, I see that's what counts to you. Oh yeah, you did mention later that she's now a manager at a small business. You found a day care that didn't push your 3-year-old's buttons? Oh my GOD! You can still shock me! No, it's really not as simple as everyone knows that when you're 3 you're supposed to go in the potty. You have no idea why that little boy was still in diapers and it's none of your business. yeah we did have one incident in which we werre asked to leave a day care.. she had biten and I asked her why she was angry that the other kid had to wear diapers and he smelled like poop and she was so potty trained and it was making her sick (she had a very weak stomach always has have) and he wanted to play with her , she said "NO" but he would not leave it had made her angry. so she bit him. yeah well everyone knows when your three your supppose to go in the potty man she was just doing the right thing he was the jerk you know, (still wore diapers) eew. so we talked about that and how the situation might have been handled a different way.. and found a day care that loved her very much and learned not to press her buttons and evryone in the room was potty trained . worked for us. You say you talked about how it could have been handled differently, but then you approved her judgmental behavior when you found a day care that you said learned not to press her buttons and everyone in the room was potty trained. I'm no expert on daycare, but of the 3 I used for my daughter, not one of them had a policy of "not pressing 3-year-olds' buttons." They all insisted that each child behaved in a socially acceptable manner. I love her so much. nasty little girl she is." By the way, the topic of this thread is what to do with child molesters, not how to guarantee the child you raise grows up to be, let me see, how did you put that? Oh yes, "Nasty little girl she is." (I only read your post because at the beginning it appeared you were staying with the topic. Silly me)

These guys say themselves that there's no rehabilitation for this perversion. Go ahead. Call it a disease. Comfort, house, feed and entertain these people. Spend your time trying to figure out how to help them control their urges. You figure out how to prevent them from destroying innocent lives in order to "satisfy their urge." But when your daughter is molested while your back is turned, send her to me. I'll make sure it never happens to her again, since you won't. See, I don't care at all about why they molest children. I do care very much about giving our children the luxury of a molestation-free childhood. Yes, I say kill em all. You bet I do. Who'll kill em? I bet you'd be surprised at how many volunteer to pull that switch. I'd be one.

LOL, abi! We also use 2-way walkie talkies when my 9-year-old rides her bike the 2 blocks to the park or walks our dog around the block! AND, I just put up a 6 ft. privacy fence around my back yard too! (We're waiting on the big gate to be attached and then it'll be finished.) We put a pool and a terrific playset in our back yard, along with a teeter totter. The neighborhood kids gather at our house. I also have security cameras around my home so that I can see what's going on out there when I'm working in my office. I work from home so that I am available to my daughter in ways I couldn't be if I worked in the city somewhere. You said, "Last weekend he was riding bikes in the alley and radioed me that he was coming in because there was an adult in the alley that was making him nervous." Bravo! That looks to me like proof that what you're doing is working! We have to fight this fight one family at a time, but we can keep our kids safe if we really make their safety our priority and don't just say we do.

Satori asked "But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18? And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?" I'd like to take a stab at answering some of your questions. My childhood was full of sexual molestation. Mine, my sister's and both my brothers. We were unsupervised children. There was nobody there to stop anyone with ill intent. There were plenty of people with ill intent around. Nobody would have been surprised to hear that any of us 4 grew up to be a molester. It was almost expected of us after what we'd been through. None of us kids become pedophiles. We're all in our 40's now. The closest thing to counseling I ever got was TWI teachings. When I had children of my own I made it my top priority to make sure that they were never molested. My siblings and I have 10 children among us, ranging in age from 28 - 9. None of them have been molested. Not one. We proactively take action to prevent our kids from being victimized. We're extremely selective, picky even, about who gets to watch our kids on the rare occasion we let them out of our sight. We consider that our jobs as parents. We feel we owe that to them, that security of feeling safe. We treat them with respect. We let them know that they are our priority. We treat them in a manner that makes them want to spend time with us and others that treat them well. And we keep them safe. No, you can't ignore the ticking time bomb that MAY have been set if the unthinkable happens to your child. You diffuse it with the sweet tenderness of a parent's patient love. You supervise any and all children in your care with diligence -always. You make your kid your priority. You pay close attention to every person that comes in contact with your child. You set the example of what's acceptable contact. That's what's worked for my family. Maybe counseling works in some cases, but just as I would research diabetes and become an expert on caring for a diabetic child, I would research and become an expert on caring for whatever my child became, even if they became a sexual abuse victim. Maybe your idea of a law enforcement-sponsored safe haven is the best solution. Maybe not. If it were up to me, starting today, every single proven beyond a shadow of a doubt child molester would be put to death. Eventually we’d be rid of them all. Concerning this notion that to a child molester, sex with a child FEELS GOOD? No, it really doesn’t. It feels wrong. It feels sneaky. It feels risky and dangerous. At the very least, it feels naughty. It doesn’t just start out FEELING GOOD the first time. It doesn’t FEEL GOOD until one kicks out all those feelings I listed and more. (I’m not talking about the innocent one, the child. I’m talking about the molester. Of course they have to make it feel good to the child if they intend to continue molesting the child and deceiving everyone involved, including the child. The guilt a child may feel for the realization that it feels good to be touched in a sexual manner is misplaced guilt. That’s never a child’s fault. That simply means their body works properly, nothing more.)

Sudo in 08! Love them technical terms, eh!

As we all know, when we hit retirement age we come face to face with the fact that it may be time to relocate. The big question is: where to? Here are some tips. You can live in Phoenix, Arizona where..... 1. You are willing to park 3 blocks away because you found shade. :-) 2. You can open and drive your car without touching the car door or the steering wheel. 3. You've experienced condensation on your butt from the hot water in the toilet bowl. 4. You would give anything to be able to splash cold water on your face. 5. You can attend any function wearing shorts and a tank top. 6. "Dress Code" is meaningless at high schools and universities. Picture lingerie ads. 7. You can drive for 4 hours in one direction and never leave town. 8. You have over 100 recipes for Mexican food. 9. The 4 seasons are: tolerable, hot, really hot, and ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!! 10. You know that "dry heat" is comparable to what hits you in the face when you open your oven door. You can Live in California where... 1. You make over $250,000 and you still can't afford to buy a house. 2 The high school quarterback calls a time-out to answer his cell phone. 3. The fastest part of your commute is going down your driveway. 4. You know how to eat an artichoke. 5. You drive your rented Mercedes to your neighborhood block party. 6. When someone asks you how far something is, you tell them how long it will take to get there rather than how many miles away it is. You can Live in New York City where... 1. You say "the city" and expect everyone to know you mean Manhattan. 2. You have never been to the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building. 3. You can get into a four-hour argument about how to get from Columbus Circle to Battery Park, but can't find Wisconsin on a map. 4 You think Central Park is "nature," 5. You believe that being able to swear at people in their own language makes you multi-lingual. 6. You've worn out a car horn. 7. You think eye contact is an act of aggression. You can Live in Maine where... 1. You only have four spices: salt, pepper, ketchup, and Tabasco. 2. Halloween costumes fit over parkas. 3. You have more than one recipe for moose. 4. Sexy lingerie is anything flannel with less than eight buttons. 5. The four seasons are: winter, still winter, almost winter, and construction. You can Live in the Deep South where... 1. You can rent a movie and buy bait in the same store. 2. "y'all" is singular and "all y'all" is plural. 3. After five years you still hear, "You ain't from ' round here, are Ya?" 4. "He needed killin' " is a valid defense. 5. Everyone has 2 first names: Billy Bob, Jimmy Bob, Mary Sue, Betty Jean, MARY BETH, etc. You can live in Colorado where... 1. You carry your $3,000 mountain bike atop your $500 car. 2. You tell your husband to pick up Granola on his way home and he stops at the day care center. 3. A pass does not involve a football or dating. 4. The top of your head is bald, but you still have a pony tail. You can live in the Midwest where... 1. You've never met any celebrities, but the mayor knows your name. 2. Your idea of a traffic jam is ten cars waiting to pass a tractor. 3. You have had to switch from "heat" to "A/C" on the same day. 4. You end sentences with a preposition: "Where's my coat at?" 5. When asked how your trip was to any exotic place, you say, "It was different!" AND You can live in Florida where... 1. You eat dinner at 3:15 in the afternoon. 2. All purchases include a coupon of some kind -- even houses and cars. 3. Everyone can recommend an excellent dermatologist. 4. Road construction never ends anywhere in the state. 5. Cars in front of you are often driven by headless people.