bowtwi

Off the top of my head, I'd say I have a daughter I never would have had if not for leaving my ex-husband, which I did because twi told me to. My daughter brings me unlimited pleasure.

Such good news!

psssssstttttt, hey Jonny - here's a clue. "hehe" and "hee hee" and "heh heh" are all code for "I"m funnin' with ya here".

What, no pictures?

I apologize if I sounded flippant in my response earlier. I don't mean it that way. I think he died from metastatic cancer. I can't judge why he didn't get healed. I don't see his death as suicide, but as a natural death. Deaths are classified on death certificates as either natural, accidental, suicidal, or homicidal.

I think I get the question. Considering Wierwille's "believing equals receiving" theory, when he died it was basically explained that he quit believing to live and that's when and why he died. So the question seems to me, worded just a little differently, why didn't he believe for healing and keep living? The answer seems to me that he really didn't believe what he taught or else maybe what he taught wasn't true, so when he developed cancer, it spread until it killed him, which is what cancer does. Unless, of course, that devil spirit of cancer was a higher rank than any of the devil spirits he already had in him up til then, to use his own explanations...

hee hee, both pennies?

Here's a snippet from the article linked in the first post on this thread: "Brown's suit claims the flight attendants asked to have Victoria Osteen removed from the plane. Hardin says Victoria Osteen and her family left voluntarily. The incident delayed the flight about 2 1/2 hours. According to court documents, Brown claims that she suffers from anxiety and hemorrhoids because of the incident and said her faith was affected. She is also suing Osteen for medical expenses for counseling." Oh puh-leeze, she got hit in the breast and that caused hemorrhoids???? I don't believe that for a minute. I think she had hemorrhoids before the incident and probably because of dietary issues or straining on the toilet, like most people get them from. I would like to think that as a preacher's wife tV. Olsteen would behave better than it sounds like she did, but good grief, I don't believe the "assault" caused any hemorrhoids. I think she'll feel mighty embarrassed if this goes to trial and the Olsteen's attorney delves into that part of the case. I don't believe she can win the claim that her faith suffered as a result of a lady acting like that on the plane. I don't believe it's fair to ask for a percentage of the preacher's wife income - if anything at all, maybe she should pay for a session or two of counseling and for a physical examination and if a medical doctor sees a connection, then to pay for treatment of that specific issue, but come on, asking for a percentage of someone's income? If it were me that lost my cool and assaulted her, she'd get next to nothing if she got that same percentage from me right now. Sounds like a frivolous case and a waste of time to me. How embarrassing for all involved.

Lisa Says by Lou Reed Hey, don'tcha be a little baby - ooh!!!!

Happy Birthday, Radar - hope you get to do what YOU want to do today! xoxoxo

Absolutely! This is how it was for me - for well over 10 years after twi kicked me out. Before that I had a passion for reading the Word, a passion for learning what I could, and a passion for sharing what I'd learned with others who wanted to learn the same. I lost all that the instant I was told God wanted nothing to do with me. Now today, 14 years later (well, for about the past year now), I'm starting to feel that desire again to learn the Word, to unlearn the wrong things I thought were right, and to replace them with what God wants me to know. The veil is definitely lifting. I've been attending church for 2 months now each week and am having a blast in the Sunday School class where everyone is welcome to their own ideas and conclusions and every one is still welcome back the next week even if they don't believe exactly as the preacher does. I believe it's all coming back - all the passion I once enjoyed for learning God's Word.

Ha! I shoulda known - yeah, it was twi that taught that. It made a huge impression on me regarding judging other people to hear that God was so just that he even forgave Judas because Judas repented and we'll see him at the bema... Velly intellestink!!! I'll have to rethink this. My point of bringing Judas up was pretty much shot by the facts here - lol. But I still think the goal is to judge in terms of behaviors and not so much the people, although I admit I wouldn't invite lcm over to watch a movie, share a meal or go swimming with us. Geisha - Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree with you, rascal - I think repentance is key. It makes my stomach turn every time I hear that line vpw used about wishing he were the man he knew to be - no he didn't - if he really wished that, he'd have done something about it. Ham - Yeah, I think even the megalomaniac can be forgiven - not to be confused with trusted or welcomed back to the position with us they enjoyed before they showed they're not to be trusted, but forgiveness is for us - so that we don't carry that heavy and painful load of judgment around with it clouding up everything we're trying to do. WordWolf - Wow - that's really interesting. I've now read a bunch off the internet about Judas. I'm reconsidering what I thought I knew about him as I said above to Tzaia. Again, thanks for taking the time to shed more light.

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Pe 2:2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 2Pe 2:3 and in {their} greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. 2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 2Pe 2:5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2Pe 2:6 and {if} He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing {them} to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly {lives} thereafter; 2Pe 2:7 and {if} He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 2Pe 2:8 (for by what he saw and heard {that} righteous man, while living among them, felt {his} righteous soul tormented day after day by {their} lawless deeds), 2Pe 2:9 {then} the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, 2Pe 2:10 and especially those who indulge the flesh in {its} corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties, 2Pe 2:11 whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. 2Pe 2:12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 2Pe 2:13 suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, 2Pe 2:14 having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; 2Pe 2:15 forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the {son} of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 2Pe 2:16 but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, {for} a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet. 2Pe 2:17 These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 2Pe 2:18 For speaking out arrogant {words} of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 2Pe 2:19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 2Pe 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 2Pe 2:22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, {returns} to wallowing in the mire." Copied from blueletterbible.org This looks to me like a pretty good description to of what went on at twi behind the scenes. Verse 21 says what I was trying to find, "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them." It amazes me that people who even pretended to be biblical researchers would miss this or think it didn't apply to them.

I just read through II Peter 2, the entire chapter, to get the context of II Peter 2:19-22, which WordWolf found for me earlier on this thread. I'll post it in the Doctrinal forum so as not to derail this thread any further. I think it's very cool and totally applicable to this subject. I read it in the NASB version - just for fun.

Rascal & Ham, What do you believe about Judas? Jesus knew before Judas betrayed him what was going to happen. Jesus sat and ate with him the night before, even. Do you believe Judas was born again, heaven-bound and all hell can't stop him? Would betraying Jesus fit in the category of all hell which can't stop him? I'm not trying to argue, my intention is discussion. I've heard it said that Judas was born again and as such, heaven-bound... I'm not totally sure what I believe. And Ham, forgiveness is not the same thing as putting one's self back in the same danger once one learns of that danger. Just thinking out loud here, but in the case of vpw, who is dead and not about to assault anyone else, forgiveness would be easier to try to pull off. lcm, on the other hand, although I believe it's best for us to forgive (not to be confused with forget), would be harder to deal with. I'm just not sure what we can do to protect future possible victims beyond posting our stories here and pray. That's what I do. Besides, we're all going to be judged in the end by a fair judge, not someone as limited as myself. Bottom line to me is I feel better when I don't hold all that anger inside me. God's much better equipped to handle that kind of heavy load than I am. I'd never let anyone have that kind of control over me in the future, and that's about the best I can hope for.

Absolutely! I remember when I heard my first "We had to M & A" this guy on account of he's a homo" trip. I was horrified. I asked everyone I knew how we could do this? The folks in my area were just as shocked as I had been, but the bottom line "... lest the ministry be blamed" and we had that so warped in our thinking. We thought we had survived all those "fiery darts" and other assorted attacks from "the adversary" after the reading of the pop paper, so it seemed somehow like a matter of being ever so careful. When it happened to me personally and I knew the accusations were false anyway, it made me feel even worse for buying into that nonsense and marking other believers and avoiding them. Yeah, red flags shoulda went off all over the place, but they had that desensitization thing going on too, so it wouldn't really be so shocking to see someone M & A'd, it just seemed ss sad, not actually as tragic as it was. That was also spun to appear how very thin the line between "in fellowship" and "out of fellowship" was - all the more powerful a tool to control people with...

Thanks, Wordwolf - I'd have never found it - I was looking in Romans and Corinthians. Sheesh!

Thanks, Wordwolf - I'd have never found it - I was looking in Romans and Corinthians. Sheesh!

I can't give chapter and verse, but it seems to me there's something important about our own behavior, our own conversation, regardless of what those around us do and say. I'm not excusing bad behavior, I'm just saying that I feel like I'm only gonna be held responsible for what I do and say, not what anyone else (unless it's my child younger than the age of reason). And again, forgiveness does not mean you allow that person that abused back in close enough to be able to hurt you again. It means you no longer have to keep their crud in the forefront of YOUR mind. It FREES YOU. It may appear to free them, but it's really all about freeing YOU so you're able to move forward.

I'm trying to find that verse that says something to the effect of it being better to never have heard the Word at all than to have learned it and turned your back on it. That was another powerful tool the way used to keep us under control. I'm not finding it tho, so I'll keep looking. Call it programming, call it brainwashing, call it anything else that communicates, but it was real and I'm a prime example. My son and I were falsely accused and marked and avoided - told by Michael Fort that the way would not help us, that we were to go find some "nice counselor somewhere out there in the world" cause "the way was not a biblical research, teaching, and counseling ministry". Yet, I'd been very clearly instructed for 15 years that there was no real help out there, meaning outside the household of the way. Paul Mosqueda told me I was turned over to Satan, supposedly as a result of my son and me being homosexuals. We were branded unworthy of any supposed help this supposed ministry would have offered someone they considered worth saving... We're just 2 of many I could list off right off the top of my head. Fortunately, we now know that the real Christian family doesn't work like that. It's all about loving God first and our neighbors as ourselves. But the way had me (us) fooled for a little while there.

Hmmm, I don't know, waysider - have you ever seen both Hef and Heef in the same room? Do we really know they're not one and the same? <_<

I've always loved hanging my bedding out to dry. Now that I live in the midwest I usually get to hang them outside. I have to watch the weather too, especially in the spring. We've been hanging all our laundry out to dry the past few months - seems to be about a $50-$60 savings on the electric bill monthly! I don't know when we've been out to eat, something we used to do a couple times a week. We haven't bought any new clothes or "toys" in at least 6 months. I didn't buy any plants at all this spring and that's what I miss most. But it could be worse.

WhiteDove - With all due respect, what would you call a man that told the Corps himself that he fondled his own daughters?