JavaJane

My grandmother always prays to Jesus. Always has, always will. My mom says that on those prayers, Jesus just hands the phone to God and says, it's for you.

Yeah, like when we heard that they were giving money to the tsunami victims... There are some changes happening for the good.

...."People do not have the answers to their problems within themselves. However, at times it is necessary to examine oneself with the guidance of a competent, godly-minded counselor in order to realize the real problem".... BLECH!!! Since when did anyone other than Jesus Christ step in to be the mediator between God and man? But then again, I guess that's why we need such strict supervision on our lives, right? But statements like this make me wonder - who does he go to for "godly-minded" finger pointng ...errr... I mean, counselling? The whole thing makes me feel sick... like when someone asks you - "Are you doing ok?" when you feel fine and are having a wonderful day. Used to have a mysogynistic prick that would ask me that whenever he would see me smiling. When I would say, "Great!" he would ask if I was sure. By the time this line of questioning was over, I went from :lol: to :) to :mellow: to :huh: to :unsure: to :blink: and finally end up :( . Now I realize I was just letting him ruin my day and take advantage of my desire to do right and be good. Now I know he had the spiritual insight of a pile of poo.

Yup, HW, that's exactly it. I even remember having a conversation with someone about serial killers and their victims, and they told me we as Believers had nothing to worry about unless we were possessed because the murderer and the victim are both possessed by the same spirit or the murderer wouldn't be able to kill them. WHAT?? I later heard someone HORRIBLY apply this logic to what happened at Columbine. How terrible is that? We were taught that broken fellowship had consequences... and they were terrible. I was asked once what I would do if I was ever made MA... I scared the person with my answer: I would kill myself. I would kill myself because I didn't want to become possessed by the devil spirits that would attack me once I was outside the walls of Zion... AND IT WOULD BE SEVEN TIMES WORSE THAN WHAT HAD EVER HAPPENED BEFORE! Glad I had that cup of reality to wake me up! I've developed a greater sense of empathy now than ever before. It's easy to feel for people when you finally allow yourself TO FEEL.

Thanks for pointing the "Way" to that thread, Belle and WordWolf! LOL!! Here's another one I heard from a teenager at the gulag a few years back ---- THE AUDITORIUM is HAUNTED by.... :unsure: The GHOSTS of the FOUNDING BOT!!! :o Seriously... I did hear this out of more than one kid. Really. Scary thought, no? Anybody else hear this one?

In the immortal words of Pink Floyd.... "We don't need no education We dont need no thought control No dark sarcasm in the classroom Teachers leave them kids alone Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone! All in all it's just another brick in the wall. All in all you're just another brick in the wall. "Wrong, Do it again!" "If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?" "You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"

My results from reading the thread have been refreshing, too.... See, when I was laying awake in bed last night I started thinking... and the thinking turned into talking to God about what I thought. I tried really hard not to filter what I was saying for doctrinal errors or so that I was praying while being in alignment and harmony... having needs and wants paralel... I just let God know how I feel. Now, admittedly, I did fall into a little of the old pattern of simply listing needs with a "thank you for..." in front, but when I realized it, I went back to simply having a real conversation. And some of the burdens went away. Because I was honest. I mean what the hey - It's not like He doesn't know what I'm thinking already! Thanks to all who have posted on this thread. Please keep it coming. It's helping me if not anybody else!

How true it is! I always wondered how if God looked on the heart He could be so narrow minded as to what He considered OK. If the motive of heart is what is looked at, and people do what they consider to be right and loving God in so many different forms and fashions, then why should we judge? That will truly keep you humble. I attended my first mass that wasn't a funeral on Christmas Eve this past year. The service made me cry I was so touched. More touched than I have been in fellowship in years and years. The priest had called all the little kids up to the front of the church and asked them where Jesus was. Of course, the kids pointed to the manger. The priest then explained that they could see Jesus in each other if they looked really hard. Then he told them to hug each other and show God how much they loved him. I'm tearing up thinking about it. That was a teaching with power. My in laws are Catholic, they love God more than most and they show it in how they love everybody else. God will honor that heart for sure. Manifest the LOVE!! Hugs to all!

Just finished this very strange thread... I have heard the same story as Mr. B, only the version of the tale I had heard had the melodramatic touch at the end that he had asked God for forgiveness for what he had done. And what could that be? When I was a kid at Sunday School I remember being taught that if I asked God to forgive me when I committed a sin, if I died, I would go to heaven, but if I died with unforgiven sins that I hadn't asked forgiveness for, I would go to hell. So, just before I went to bed every night to make sure all my bases were covered I would ask God to forgive me for all the bad things I forgot that I did during the day. That way if the bomb dropped while I was sleeping, I would be covered through the "if you ask for forgiveness it's covered" loophole. I was a weird little kid. Maybe he was just trying to make sure he had absolution for all the crappy things he did... That is if the whole thing isn't some sort of weird twi urban legend.

How very very true, Belle. I have had to work very hard to regain my trust in myself (not to mention others) because of my experiences. It seemed that the closer I got to the center of things, the worse I looked. Makes yourself doubt your abilities that God gave you, and when you became comfortable with yourself you were told you had a problem with ego - that you were too prideful. I was taken aside at one point and told I was on the verge of "spiritual death" (whatever the hell that means - I didn't have the guts to ask at the time, it just scared the s*** out of me) because of my problems with pride. I was also told that this was taken directly to DEF-confrontation Level III "to the church" (do not pass go, do not collect $200) because of the seriousness of my problem. Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Somehow verses 15 and 16 got skipped - you know, tell it to him alone, then take 2-3 witnesses, etc. And the funny thing was that the "church" in a branch full of fellowships consisted of 2 people. I guess they were the only ones spiritually qualified to be there. When I spoke with one of them later, they told me that they had no clue what was going on, but that they felt the best thing they could do was just sit still and not say anything. Years later (like over a decade) I started to consider the timeframe of this in my life - my family had just been made MA, one of the reasons being cited was something along the lines of my mother being "willfull" or something. I wonder if they figured they better get me under control before I grew up to become like her. Too late for that now. I'm just like my Mom... Hope to become more like her, too!

Thanks! MMMMMmmmmMMMMMmmmm, Pastry, too!! I thought of something else after I posted the last message on this forum... I do remember being taken aside with another young lady from our branch and confronted about the teen orgies that were happening at the ROA and asked why we hadn't said anything! We hadn't said anything because we were never knew anything was happening - we were at the teachings... Afterwards, I wasn't sure if I should be offended that someone thought I was involved, or offended because no one asked me to take part? A few years later I ran into one of the guys who was involved in all of that at the ROA... It was a little strange the difference in attitude regarding things... I was so concerned about not being at every meeting and trying to do my best, and he just kept talking about how he couldn't wait for his parents to go to the teachings so he could go party with the other kids. My parents, in the meantime, had me right at their sides, and I am glad for that.

Hi, new here... been quietly sipping coffee in the corner booth, but now the caffeine has kicked in... On the topic of superiority. Anyone out there kinda miss the old "I'm better than you are" mindset that was oooooh so comfortable? Wasn't it a great feeling to kick off your shoes at the end of the day and just KNOW that you KNOW that you KNOW that you were better than everyone else out there because you HAD THE RIGHTLY DIVIDED WORD?? I am being a little bit sarcastic here. just a little. But seriously, it's a little difficult to help people when you look at them like everything that happened to them happened because they deserved it. God looked past what we deserved when he gave His son for us. We were taught "saved by grace" in doctrine, but we were also taught that we could lose access to God's ear by screwing something up. Where's the grace in that?

New here.. Hi to all! Been lurking in the back booth checking ya'all out for a while, and I like the atmosphere of "say what you think" that permeates this joint - it's refreshing! I was raised in "the Word" starting in my early teens. I can honestly say that I am thankful for most of it, and believe that I had a good childhood. I never got in much trouble... But I think this also had a lot to do with my parents, moreso than the ministry. I never knew about the sexual crap that went on until much later... when I was an adult. I definately had it a lot better than my other siblings... I was older, out of the house by the time things got real religious. I'm glad. They had to endure the FC after being yanked from highschool. The stories they relate are theirs to tell if they ever want to. It was not a healthy environment for them at all. I do remember being very upset at one point in my late teens because my parents had decided to go into the WC with my sibs, but couldn't take me because I was too old to go with them. I hadn't even had a place on my own yet! I got very mad at God then because I felt He was taking my family from me. I got over it, though, [yeah, right] and followed my parent's example by increasing my commitment to THE WORD and going out on an outreach quest. A good time. I learned a lot, met good people, and was forced to grow up, buck up, and LIVE THE STANDARD!! I lived the standard so much that when my parents were made MA, I MAed them too, thinking I was doing God a great service. Boy, was I wrong! Thank God I know now. He didn't want me separated from my family. He never took them away from me, I took myself away (with a healthy dose of encouragement - not strictly stated by leadership, mind you.) Now I know better. Not so niave. In a way, it's nice to know, but in another way, it was nice to be ignorant. Ignorance is bliss, but when you do get that steaming hot cup of reality poured right in your lap, it hurts like hell. Things are better. My family is together, I am thankful for their forgiveness.

Sure you're not playing that audio clip that's lying around here somewhere?

I am NEVER without coffee. I think I was born with it in my blood (or at least that's what my Mamma said.) As for the avatar... "Is the planet shaking, or is that just me?" Chas - thanks for the compliment... And Groucho - the few times in the recent past I have found myself praying with depth have been in the midst of BIG emotions... Rage, sadness, extreme happiness. At those points, I have no problem breaking the facade and being me. I think it has so much to do too with the idea that we are to "control" [translation: do not have] emotions. ... or was that EMOTICONS?

Hello, Bolshevik and All... I'm a "newbie" at the cafe, been silently lurking in the shadows at the back of the cafe reading posts and feeling the place out for a while, and I have to say it has been a PLEASURE to hear everything people have had to say, whether I agree with them personally or not. I have had a similar problem to Bolshevik... Prayer within the fellowship for so many years (won't tell you HOW many, just that it was a lot) was so stilted that I still have problems within my private prayer life. I don't find myself WANTING to pray because when I do I slip back into the old "lift list" mentality - which isn't so much a prayer as was stated previously, just a listing of needs... After thinking about it, it reminded me of when I would pray before going to bed when I was probably a preschooler (before my family got in "the Word".) "God bless Mommy and Daddy and Auntie and Uncle and Grandma and Grandad and Doggie and Kitty... Amen" It almost seems like a chore in some cases. Any advice on how to share your heart with God more would be great. I don't think it's supposed to be as boring as I have made it. Once again, thanks for having me. You will be hearing much from me in the future, I am sure.