JavaJane

Yeah, I agree, frank! I always wondered when I heard stories about being asked about your married sex life if it was some sort of sick way for leadership to get off on what you were doing with your spouse. Yuck. Or maybe if your spouse (or you) wasn't getting the prescribed amount it would give them an excuse to suggest some extracurricular activities to you or your spouse. Either way, :blink: sums it up best.

Thanks, Waysider!! That was AWESOME!

Interesting, too, how we were supposed to share EVERYTHING (remember full sharing??) about our lives, while so many things about the leadership were considered "lockbox." Bit of a double standard. Especially when you consider our little "sins" were nothing in comparison to that of the MOG... but we could get kicked out at a moment's notice.

Album for today - Come Dancing with the Kinks - The Best of the Kinks 1977-1986. It makes me happy. Here are the lyrics from the song of the moment: A Gallon of Gas by The Kinks I've been waiting for years to buy a brand new cadillac But now that I've got one I want to send it right back I can't afford the gas to fill my luxury limousine But even if I had the dough no one's got no gasoline I went to my local dealer to see if he could set me straight He said there's a little gas going but I'd have to wait But he offered some red hot speed and some really high grade hash But a gallon of gas can't be purchased anywhere for any amount of cash I can score you some coke and some grade one grass But I can't get a gallon of gas I've got some downers some speed all the drugs that you need But I can't get a gallon of gas There's no more left to buy or sell There's no more oil left in the well A gallon of gas can't be purchased anywhere For any amount of cash two extra verses from long version: I love your body-work, but you're really no use How can I drive you when I got no juice? Because it's stuck in neutral and my engine's got no speed And the highways are deserted and the air smells unnaturally clean. It's got power-assisted overdrive and carpets on the floor, but it's parked out front just like a dead dinosaur. And I'll be paying off the bank for 45 years or more. It should go 100 miles an hour, but it's never moved away from my door. Who needs a car and a seven-forty-seven When you can't buy a gallon of gas Who needs a highway, an airport or a jet When you can't get a gallon of gas There's no more left to buy or sell There's no more oil left in the well A gallon of gas can't be purchased anywhere For any amount of cash You can't buy a gallon of gas edited for lyrics

I thought this bore repeating... Thanks, Doc! Someone mentioned this earlier, too... The position of "fellowship secretary" did exist, at least in some fellowships (like mine.) We kept records, so I am supposing that other fellowships did as well.

So much for God not being a "respector of persons" from twi's point of view!! I keep coming back to this in my mind - how we were taught to believe one thing, but were actually doing the EXACT OPPOSITE. For example - "Make the Word your own! The Bereans were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so...." ACTUALLY MEANT in twi: "Make sure you study what we say and get yourself convinced that everything WE SAY is the WORD OF GOD." or... "Your priorities are 1. Your relationship with God, 2. Your relationship with your spouse 3. Your relationship with your kids 4. Your relationship with the Household." ACTUALLY MEANT: "We are God in twi, so everything else is crap in comparison to us." Basically, without actually saying it, they convinced (at least me, if not a lot of people) that they took the place of God here on earth. Isn't that the ultimate in idolatry?

I guess that would be a conflict of interest, wouldn't it??

The Housekeeping Department at HQ could have told you that, Bride!!

Family has such importance in our lives… they are always there, you are always a part of them… Yet how many of us were taught that “family” only really applies to those who were followers of twi? Not that we were expressly taught this in a class or in a SNS, but it was definitely implied, if not taught in a private setting, as it was to me when I was “highly encouraged” [translation: bullied and then manipulated into thinking these actions were what I needed to do if I loved God] to mark and avoid my family. They used these verses: Matthew 12:47-50 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Because I wanted so badly to please God, and because they used scripture, I followed along…. And how many people (not to mention children) were hurt by the teaching on this verses in the Old Testament that talk about stoning a rebellious child? (I can’t remember the verses right now, but I am sure someone out there will remember them.) Our families came LAST in the scheme of things. How many kids either missed out on extracurricular activities at school because of fellowship schedules? How many soccer games were missed by how many parents? How much disconnect was there because of these things? Not to say that ALL parents did these things – just like not ALL kids marked and avoided their entire family like I did…. My siblings and I were pretty well taken care of until my parents and sibs went off to Rome City to join the FC. I am only now really realizing the HUGE importance of family in my life… Not just my own family (now reunited), but my husband’s family as well… and our children which we will have someday. Thank God for our families!! And thank GOD my kids will not have to go through these things like me and my siblings did!

I don't think I ever read this one... What did he say about David and Bathsheba and "get out of here"??

I wondered why they did this - and actually thought it was because maybe the people who fell went into some sort of shock. In this case, it probably wasn't because of modesty, because at this church everyone but the pastor and his wife showed up in jeans... But then again, I don't really know!

I completely understand... a lot of times if I am going to talk about my time in twi I simply refer to it as a church I was once involved in... that I am no longer a part of because of how controlling they were. People understand that, and can relate, but they seem to have a hard time relating to anything branded a "cult." You say tomayto, I say tomahto...

YES! Thank you, Sunesis! I never really thought about it this way, but it makes sooooo much sense! I was raised in twi, and sometimes I bemoan the fact I don't have as many CLOSE friends like I used to... well, that is probably normal, because in twi, you said whatever to whoever and everyone was in everybody else's business. The real world doesn't work like that - and it's probably a good thing it doesn't. There are too many people out there who are not nice who could take the information you tell them and use it to hurt you (much like what happened all the time in twi.) I also, do not talk to people about my experiences within twi unless they were also a part of it at one point. People just do not understand, and for the most part do not want to be bothered. Greasespot is a good place for speaking about your experiences, though.

I have had similar experiences, but mainly from people, not therapists. People tend to kinds freak out if you say you were involved in a cult - almost like maybe it's catching, or you just said you were a child molester or somehow tainted. That there is something wrong with YOU as a person - we all must be terribly flawed to have joined a CULT. But as you said, there are many kinds of people who joined up with twi - some professional, intelligent individuals, some not so much. I always ask people who freak out what they think about kids that were born into that situation who just didn't have a choice? Are they "flawed" by the flaw of their parents? I started going to therapy almost a year ago, and at the first visit, she told me that I had been "spiritually wounded" by my experiences in twi. This is an actual REAL term used by psychologists - and knowing that I was not alone in the problem really helped me. She had not dealt with cults per se, but had helped a lot of people who had been in abusive church systems in the area I was... it was the same thing to her. Any mental health professional who would put judgement on a person who is asking for help to their face is not someone I would consider professional enough to see for help. Maybe things have changed since you last looked for help - maybe they have discovered there is an actual need for people who have been spiritually wounded. Heck, a little over 20 years ago, they had only just figured out that sexual harassment was wrong... That started in the 80s, right? (I'm not all that good with dates, so I could be completely off on this.)

There was a time in my area where I was asked to assist my fellowship coordinator (who already had an assistant)... I had to keep track of the money from the ABS, and also WHO was at the fellowship, notes on what was taught, and who said what about the teaching after fellowship. I thought nothing of it at the time... Now it seems rather creepy and KGBish. And I remember one instance where a new person ACTUALLY CAME to fellowship (I brought him, the poor sap.) My fellowship coordinator was angry with me because this was not planned in advance and cut into our mandatory witnessing time they had planned if a new person didn't show up. There was no way to please these people! If there were no new people there, you were a failure, and if you did bring a new person, you didn't PLAN it well enough. WTF??

And since none of them are actually HUMAN, there will always be more than one - right?

I think most people just told their leadership, thinking that that would be the honest, right thing to do - that they would help them get out of their "broken fellowship." Little did they know that by admitting the "sin" and asking for help they were putting themselves up for elimination. And leadership (at least I know in a couple of instances where people decided to buy a house) actually ASKED how they could afford the house - under the guise of "please tell us how you were so blessed to own this beautiful home debt free?"

Hi, Speck!! It's nice to meet someone else who was raised in twi. I was too old to go into residence with my family - which in a way, was a very very good thing for me - I missed all the horror stories my siblings tell me about... but on the other hand, it made it really difficult to believe all the horrible things that had happened to them when they were in residence - because I never saw any of it. I have woken up now. As far as what I believe?? I think it is going to take the rest of my life to figure that out. In a lot of ways for me finding out that twi was a cult and that so many people were hurt was very difficult for me to handle because my entire reality had been based on the FACT and TRUTH (as I was led to believe) that twi was God's ONE TRUE HOUSEHOLD. What a sucker I was. Now, one of the main things I have to deal with is learning who I really am. For so long, my personality and my life were based completely on what I was supposed to be according to twi. Now that that is gone, I am finding out a lot about myself - and I am not the person I thought I was originally. I am a lot more open, a lot more kind, and a lot more introverted than I used to be. It's a slow evolution of self. yes, our parents thought they were doing the right thing - didn't we all? I don't hold anyone accountable for what they did under the influence of twi - I consider all of that in the arena of dealing with an addict. An addict, although they are "free" to stop using their drug of choice is still under pressure to use through a chemical dependency. Decisions made under these circumstances cannot be taken personally - so I don't take the actions of my parents during that time as personally as I once would have. Glad to see you at the cafe! Keep coming around!

I have a cousin-in-law that is part of the International House of Prayer - she is a very sweet girl - although she can be pretty darn argumentitive at times when talking about her belief system... Which I totally get. I used to be the same way myself. My husband and I are really looking for something that is a little bit more on the mellow side... at least for right now. After being involved in twi and then going to a church that was very into casting out devils in front of the congregation and singling out individuals from the congregation/audience to come up in front of everyone, I don't know if I could handle anything remotely forceful. We mainly need a quiet place where we can heal. We don't want the sort of church where we would attract much attention - really we want to sort of blend in and sit in the back for a while with no pressure from anyone else. You might say we're a bit on the skittish side since our last church experience(s). Maybe someday the International House of Prayer might appeal to us, but for now, we need something a little more on the tame side, just to get us adjusted to even attending a church again. Then again, I could go to International House Of Pancakes every Sunday, and just get fat.

And freedom of THOUGHT (or even being allowed TO THINK for oneself) is what I am looking for... Anything too constricting is just too reminiscent of twi days - and I can't take that at ALL anymore. Somewhere I could blend in a little bit would be nice, too. I always seem to stand out in a church setting... A large denomination might be a good choice for me because there are plenty of different kinds of people in a larger church.

RED binders for the Way Disciples, too!!! I think you're on to something, Grumpy!

Hmmm.... Reasons for m&a? In my area - A family was m&a-ed because the father liked to gamble (legal in this part of the country). My family was made m&a because my mother is a "domineering b***h" and my father is "balless"... (No, they just made decisions TOGETHER) Homosexual fantasizers (how do they know this??) and uncontrollable children... my family was told they needed to throw out my 16 year old brother - which they did. And of course, the ultimate sin - DEBT (but this was only enforced if you were not related to clergy - otherwise, it was fine.)

I can confirm - the entire series (foundational, intermediate, advanced) of The Way of Abundance and Power are now in red binders with white letters.

My husband and I just had a conversation about this a couple of hours ago... Sometimes the emotions in a room become so intense, you can actually feel them when you walk in... Is that spirit (holy, or otherwise) or is it just a psychological effect? When I was in twi, I thought everything was the result of a debbil spurt or something, now I am not so sure. So, I second the question, how do you know it is supernatural? I believe the supernatural exists, but how exactly do you define it in this case?

Don't know... but watched Alien v. Predator: Requiem this weekend... Did you know it took place in Gunnison - and at the end they blew up the whole town? Makes me wonder if some disgruntled WC person had a suggestion on the location for the movie.