JavaJane

Yeah, it's funny. I put up with so much and was soooooooooooooooo sold out and brain deep in the Kool-Aid. Did so many stupid things. I had already *pretty much* left mentally at that point, anyway. But - having him SHOW UP AT MY JOB without a phone call, where he knew my husband wouldn't be (my man has NEVER been brain deep in the Kool-Aid like me - probably because he was raised Catholic) WAS JUST CREEPY. And then to be so cold hearted and horrible to say that this baby that I had waited FOREVER to have (because I was waiting to find the perfect man IN THE HOUSEHOLD) wasn't a GOOD THING?? (as if maybe I should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT??.... That was IT for me! **edited because sometimes I don't make any sense... even to me!

I know people leave twi for different reasons... mine was a cumulative process, but the final nail in the coffin was when my fellowship coordinator showed up at my work to "check in" on me. My husband and I hadn't been to fellowship in a few months. He asked me how I was doing, and I told him that we were expecting our first child. He asked, "Is that a GOOD thing?" And then I was done. 100% done. Never ever ever coming back. It was one remark that sealed it for me. For him to question whether my baby was a blessing or not was so... stupid, and... horrible! It really showed me the total lack of love they had for me, my husband, and my unborn child.

Yes, they pretend they have the authority... but we have the authority over our own lives. I used to think in the back of my head that every time I did something the leadership would think was wrong that I would end up getting caught because God would give them revelation on my activities. It sounds ridiculous, but maybe I believed it because I became involved at a really young age.... or maybe I really was that stupid. Or both. I started to realize otherwise when my girlfriends and I were told that 2x2 was not good enough if we were going to be out after midnight, or at a bar. We were required by leadership to go out in groups of three, or we had to have one of the believer men with us. Or we could "end up dead in a dumpster." Well, trying to coordinate getting all three of us to go out at the same time was ridiculous, and the single twi guys were, um... well.... they all had mullets. Or were missing teeth, or had B.O. and it sorta cramped our style as party girls to be seen with these freaks. So, one of us girls (strangely enough, the only one who is still IN) had a moment of genis and said, "this is BS. I understand 2x2, but 3x3 is stupid, and I don't see it in the Word. So, we'll go out and we just won't tell anyone." So we did. And God never told them we were doing anything! BUT, my final freeing moment when I knew God wasn't going to tattle on me to anyone in twi (a few months before we left) was when my husband and his family took me to a CASINO and WE GAMBLED... and WE WON. And we spent the money and NOTHING BAD HAPPENED. Until this point, I actually had believed that any money won in gambling would have devil spirits attached to it. (Seriously. Man, I was dumb!!) Now I gamble whenever I want. I like it. And sometimes I even buy lottery tickets. Yup. Free at last, free at last.

I can witness to the fact that it IS a rumor being spread inside twi... or at least has been spread in the past, because I heard it when I was in.

So, just out of curiousity, who came up with the hair brained idea that a "grain silo" could be decorative?? And - have you ever seen the instructions for the auditorium in case of a tornado? The BOD/BOT and spouses would be taken down to the basement first, then everyone else. I would have thought they would stand outside the auditorium and command the weather to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, and by the sheer force of their believing presence the tornado would just turn away to destroy some "cop-outs" who still lived in the area.

Ok, I am putting my Way-Brain glasses on again so that I can see things like they do schitzophrenia = devil spirit suicide = devil spirit any mental disorder = devil spirit anyone who isn't sold out to twi = possessed by devil spirit And we are supposed to "keep the household clean".... And we have the authority to cast out devil spirits.... And the earth was created for believers, not unbelievers. And, to be loving, you need to confront people - give them a chance to get back in alignment and harmony so that they can see the error of their ways. So, throwing people out is the loving thing to do. AND we have the authority to do it because God backs us up. AND those people with devil spirits would have committed suicide anyway. Because those people had free will, right? Free will to be controlled by the devil spirits. So it's all on them. We were just being loving. Makes sense to me! (THANK GOD I AM OUT!)

Thank you, soulsearcher and JeffSjo! I am much happier and more myself than I ever was while I was in! And I like myself much more! It was so strange to have that conversation with that innie and realize that my feelings and emotions had absolutely NO VALUE to them whatsoever, simply because they were emotions. I must have recovered somewhat in order for that to be strange! My husband keeps telling me that when he says something that upsets me I don't have to preface telling him how I feel with, "I know that what I am feeling is wrong" because it is OK to feel. I am getting a lot better with that. While in twi, I guess I had become comfortably numb to all feelings. Probably why I had heart palpitations all the time. Too many bottled up emotions can make you pretty sick. And what kind of "abundant life" can you have when you don't have any feelings? And on another note, what the heck was it they taught in the Advanced Class about spiritual emotions? I guess only WC were allowed to have those. And if I remember right, you had to have your emotions completely in check in order to even know you were experiencing spiritual emotions. SO, when some poor WC emotionless zombie person went ballistic on someone, it HAD to be a SPIRITUAL emotion, right? Not just that they couldn't hold it in anymore and unloaded on the first person they could.

I really do believe that the men involved in the conversations I mentioned above were good people - not in their actions, of course, but they were like me... they just wanted to do the right thing for God. We all just got who God was mixed up. The man who told me that I would turn into a witch and/or lesbian if I left twi looked like I had hit him in the face when I told him I would commit suicide if I ever left. I really believe that he hadn't thought what he said would really hurt someone as much as he did... and that I was so accepting of his judgement. As if I somehow deserved it. How is it that you could have abuse upon abuse piled up on you, and the whole time cling to the abuser as if your life depended upon it? It does not make sense. I had an argument recently with an innie about how they had made me feel (ostracized, looked down upon, condemned, etc) by their behavior towards me since I left twi. I was told "I never SAID that! And because I never SAID it explicitly, how could you KNOW what I am thinking? You aren't the searcher of hearts! You can't read my mind! Only God knows what is in my heart!" Yes, it is true. I cannot read your mind. But, I have learned that ACTIONS speak much louder than words. I have learned how to have empathy. I have learned how to put myself back into your bondage, and I know the pressures put on you by those around you. I see how you have been manipulated. I see how you have been deceived. Best of all, I KNOW what is in my heart. I KNOW that what is in my heart and my mind is MY OWN and not some pre-programmed BS that was spoon fed to me by an abusive system. As said before, emotions were given to us by God for a reason. Sometimes that reason is just to let us know when we are being hurt so that we can get away. By having us turn off our emotions, we were just that much easier to control. It has taken two years of therapy to get me to the point I am today - two years of therapy, and a loving, supportive husband who encourages me to just SAY what I am feeling, even if I am being b!tchy at the moment for no good reason. And OldSkool, I am right there with you! My family is so much stronger than it would have been if we had stayed in. Thank GOD my child will NEVER have to go through what I did!!

Funny, I had forgotten about pretending you were there when we listened to the tapes or watched the VHS. And then there was that time when we all had to get together as a Branch and wear our "Best Dress" to the meetings. God, how I hated wearing pantyhose in million degree weather! And then there was the whole thing about the manifestations not being recorded because they were only supposed to be for the people present. I think it was because the messages weren't scripted and therefore not under their control. Oh... And the sound of STS always put me to sleep. And the chior's outfits always were soooooooooooooooo bad. Not to mention the stuff they dressed Way Prod in!

I know!! But those people don't even believe that the old tricky Vic even raped women! Nope, not him! He was perfect and kind. Not like LCM. Nope. LCM was where ALL the problems started! VP was near perfect. He only made one mistake - putting LCM on the throne, don't you know. It must be nice for Rosie to have such a convenient scapegoat for everything. Sorry, folks! If the tree is producing rotten fruit, then look to its roots. LCM was bad, RFR is evil, and the worst was VPW. I used to think it was just LCM. Iwas one who bought the lie of the "kinder gentler" twi. It's not. It's just hidden behind a devil wearing the clothes of a sweet little old lady. If VPW gotany revelation on his deathbed it was probably a vision of the special kind of hell reserved for ministers who feed off the flock they are supposed to take care of.

According to twi, emotions have no value.... Oh, how many horrible times I was told this lie! Told to renew my mind and control my thinking... and as a woman, it was shoved down my throat that I was supposed to be especially careful since all women are run by their emotions. And since I was "raised in the Word" from my formative years, I bought the whole thing and believed in it wholeheartedly. I turned myself into the good little sweet submissive woman they wanted. I discounted any emotion that was contrary to twi doctrine... I sold my soul to those devils. I turned my heart into a stone. I stopped caring about the people around me who cared the most for me (my family), I put them aside so that I could better serve God and His Word and His MINISTRY. What a bunch of crap. Whenever I was attacked by WC, I would just sit there silently taking the abuse. Stonefaced. Emotionless. Now that I think about it, it was probably a coping mechanism against the abuse, to make it stop faster. Because if you said anything back in argument, the abuse just got worse. I remember at one point being told that if I ever wasn't completely open and honest again with a WC minister, that I would be facing spiritual death! (This was over a mistake during set up for a class where I tried to cover my foot when I damaged a piece of posterboard.) I was so terrified of "spiritual death" (I never have quite figured out WHAT exactly spiritual death is, but it sounded like the worst possible thing I could have happen) that I sat in the back of the room with the hair on my arms standing up, shaking with literal terror.... I think about that now and I am sickened by my lack of self respect. Later that day, another believer came up to me who had overheard what had happened. He asked me if I knew what would happen to me if I left twi. He told me that I would turn to witchcraft and become a lesbian . That my mind would become a terrible affront to God. He asked me what I would do if I left... I told him that I would get my hands on a bunch of sleeping pills, drive out to the middle of nowhere where no one would find me and commit suicide to keep those things from happening to me, because I could not handle being such an affront to God. Suicide? It seemed more logical to me at the time than living outside the walls of "Zion"... I wasn't even WC. I was just a stupid 20-something girl who had cut herself off from her family (who was Mark and Avoid) so that she could serve God. And if I couldn't do that, I would kill myself. Well, I made it out with the help of my husband and my family. I am not practicing witchcraft (but I don't think there is anything wrong with Wicca) and I am not a lesbian. I am happy. I cry , I laugh, I love, I get mad sometimes and yell. I even throw fits and stomp my feet when I get mad sometimes like a little kid. I am learning to fully experience my emotions and put value on them. And I don't consider suicide any sort of logical solution for any problem, but to think of those times now makes my blood run cold. Why did I even want to be a part of something so cold, horrible, and uncaring???

I thought that I was the only person who thought that!

Just a singular mistake, revealed to the MOG on his deathbed by revelation from the Almighty... Like some sort of mythic hero. The way the story was related to me, God showed him in that moment of time what would happen to his Ministry because of his (singular) mistake.

I remember hearing that VP, moments before death, said that he had "made a terrible mistake" and asked God to forgive him. It was implied that this mistake was the instating of LCM as the MOG. Nice story. Whatever.

I went through and "culled the herd" last night - got rid of some twi lurkers.... and I haven't accepted any of the WC requests. Yucko! Thanks everyone for the suggestions. NO NIGHTMARES LAST NIGHT for the first night in a week! I had such a terrible experience with "marking and avoiding" my immediate family, I sometimes have a hard time doing the same thing to anyone else, even if they are in der veg! However, I think I am glad I did it as far as facebook goes.

I know my brother had some experiences while he was there... something about a face appearing in the wall. He was pretty little back then. I know of several twi kids who have told me the auditorium was haunted by the ghost of VPW!!

Always good to see you, Ham!! Been busy with our mini-coffee girl lately. Nothing to get your mind off of your involvement with a cult than a toddler who has a warp drive! Hmmm.... no one important - they were all people who knew me or my man back in the day. Limb leaders and such - minor leadership... If Rosie sent me a friend request, I would probably accept it just be a jerk. It seems like the twi-ers out there on facebook are just the most boring people you could know as far as social networking. No interesting status updates, and all are so fake happy. Not that happy is bad, but come on, people!! Your days are not perfect. I know. I used to be there. But I also remember that feeling that I needed to keep up appearances - PARANOID. (Not that I am much better... you live with it for a while in way-land and it just becomes ingrained in you to trust no one. Especially if they have any religious background to them. I do much better these days with agnostics and atheists even though I still consider myself Christian. But I digress. Maybe I am just paranoid... Maybe the Way let up on the whole "NO INTERNET" thingie. Maybe the WC are just on there to pray for me and make me feel happy. I'd rather they just got lost.... Man, I wish facebook had a "hide" button for all twi leardership. That would be awesome.

Hello... haven't been around in a while, but been having the old creepy ugliness from my time in twi popping back into my mind, and I always seem to show up here to work them out. Guess since I haven't been around in a year or so, my recovery is doing well. But, I have Way Corpse coming out of the freaking woodwork at me on facebook. Not so cool. And some of them with little messages like "Us believers need to stick together!" Ugh. They probably just don't realize I'm not involved and NEVER will be involved with their insanity again. I am still friends with some people on the inside, and I am sure that is how they are finding me. I started having the sneaking suspicion that they were there to spy on people the first one I got, but now I am convinced that is what is happening. I mean, for such a techno-internet-phobic organization, these brainwashed f***s must have been TOLD to get on there. Can't have those little believers out there socializing on an unsupervised level, you know!! Bless their little hearts! Saddest thing is that the whole thing is giving me terrible nightmares about the bad old days when I was involved. Guess I'm not cured yet! Anyone else seeing this?

True story - My husband and I got married and hadn't had the newest version of "the family class" SHAME ON US! Thank GOD the newest version of the class was going to be starting the DAY AFTER we got married! NO NEED FOR A HONEYMOON!!! We could just TAKE THE CLASS!! (WTF???) We declined and decided we would go put things into practice for ourselves without the "present truth" on the subject.

I have had a couple of things happen that could be angels... One I am pretty convinced was an angel, and two I am still trying to figure out. First the one I am sure was an angel... I was at a very rowdy concert one night with some friends... we were on the floor, behind the mosh pits which were randomly breaking out all across the front of the stage. One of my friends and I decided that we were going to try and get closer to the stage, so off we went... in between two mosh pits which suddenly merged into one, with the two of us smack in the middle of it. We were immediately knocked to the floor with the wind knocked out of us. I thought for a second that we were going to either die or be seriously injured and I wasn't sure how I was going to explain that to my TC - especially considering that we were at a VERY non ministry function. (It's weird the things that go through your head sometimes...) Suddenly this HUGE guy who looked like Mr. Clean appeared out of nowhere. He had tribal tattoos that went up his arms, then up his neck onto his bald head. He picked us up off the floor, one over each shoulder (now, keep in mind, neither of us was a small, skinny girl), and walked out of the mosh pit which just seemed to part in front of him. He took us to the edge of the pit, put us down and said "Stay here." Then, before we could say thank you, he was gone... which was strange, because he was head and shoulders taller than anyone else around us. We never saw him again. Second one happened to my mom right after I was born. Her grandmother had just passed away and they had been very close. My mom was unable to go to the funeral because she had just had me a couple of days before. While she was rocking me, her grandmother appeared next to her chair and told her that I was a very strong, good girl and that she was very proud of my mom.... I am not sure if this was an angel or not. Third one has been happening to me recently... I am almost ready to have my first child. I have been waking up a lot at night because pregnant women have to pee all the time... Sometimes when I get up I see an old woman in our living room. She is extremely short with very white hair... I only see her for split second out of the corner of my eye, and then she is gone. At first I just thought I was still dreaming, half asleep, but I told my father in law about it one day. He asked me what she looked like and I described her to him. He said that it sounded just like his mother... I have seen her a couple of times since. I don't know what to think about this one... is it a dream? I know one thing for sure, this is the first time I have ever seen something of this nature that DIDN'T give me the heebie-jeebies - I just saw her, thought to myself "that was odd" and went back to sleep. Maybe my child's paternal great grandmother is watching over the birth of her great granchild... maybe I am just having those super vivid pregnancy dreams they talk about. I don't know. Ever seen "Dogma," Mr Ham??

I remember being told that you should NEVER tell someone who was possessed that they were possessed because they were not capable of understanding that. I have read a couple very interesting books on modern day cases of possession and exorcism - one called Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin - a former Jesuit Preist, and one that I can't remember the title of by a psychologist who was trained by Malachi Martin. Very interesting books. Their take on the whole possession thing made a lot more sense than twi's... Their viewpoint was that there were very few cases of actual possession, and that all avenues of modern science should be used prior to labelling someone possessed. Counselling, therapy, medical screening, all of it had to be exhausted before even considering someone would be possessed. Malachi Martin also stated in his book (I am paraphrasing here) that possession happens when someone gets confused on something from a very common sense standpoint. A good example of this (in my opinion) would be something like the adultery confusion in twi - that somehow something so very very simple as "thou shalt not commit adultery" becomes "all the women belong to the king." Only the person is completely convinced that this is the case - not just manipulating people for one's own selfish gain. It's an interesting subject to look at from other sources other than twi's weird viewpoint where the concept was just used as a way to remove people who caused any questioning of the MOG's authority. I'm not sure what I believe about it at this point - but then again, I am not convinced on what I believe on A LOT of stuff, you know? Right now I just enjoy THINKING.

I've found that the best I have been able to do with people who are still in is to talk about issues as THEY bring them up... If I bring up situations that I would categorize as "abusive" that have happened to me without them bringing up something that happened to them first, it is as if I am attacking them personally for what they believe... when really it is not about beliefs, per se... more about the organization. I have had some success with this. One thing that I have stayed away from unless I have a real opportunity to talk about it is anything involving VP's sexploitation of women. People just CANNOT believe that the MOG would do such a thing.... It is like I am trying to tell them that George W Bush is an alien who built the piramids and now is trying to destroy all of human kind through mind control. They just cannot possibly wrap their minds around it. Waking up from twi is a slow process for most people, I think. It was for me.

I have had people (former followers of twi) that I should stand up and tell everyone off in twi so they know where I stand - that this will help those that are still in. Do any of you think this would help people who are still in, or as TheHighWay has said, would it just become a non-issue? I personally have no desire to "confront" those still in... It happened to me when some people very close to me got out. They made a HUGE issue of telling me a lot of stuff I was not ready to even hear at the time. All it seemed to do to me was make me MORE convinced that the ADVERSARY was very sneaky and out to get the TRUE HOUSEHOLD of GOD. In a way, it put me even deeper into twi's bondage. Did anyone else experience anything like this?