JavaJane

Now that I really think about it, it was probably the summer 1994 class, because I was out WOW at the time, and we came back to the ROA and WOW was cancelled due to homo infestation... So many weird things to think about so many years later. Ugh. And to think I stayed in until 2008. God, forgive me for being so gullible and naïve.

I remember thinking that they must have "watered down" the teaching because people weren't "spiritually mature" enough for the real stuff that was taught in the original class. But all you guys who took the class before I did had the same experience. Any one else have the experience of other students getting "revelation" that amounted to judging other students for nit picky stuff? I remember that was a big deal - and the more "revelation" you got the more "spiritually mature" you were. Then again I took the class in the summer of 1993 right before the homosexual purge happened. Good times, good times...

Isn't it liberating to not take responsibility to fixing everyone's belief system? I got to church as well, but not really for the fellowship or community, although I do get that out of the experience. I go in order to feel small and know that there is so much in the universe I cannot ever hope to comprhend. I go to experience the rituals that go back to the days of paganism so that I can feel connected to my ancestry. I also love Jesus a lot. His teachings are amazing. Do I believe he is God? In some ways, yes. In others, no. But it isn't all that important to me.

I would add that if it's an ADULT you do it with and they think it's cool, then it's fine. WHEN IT'S YOUR SLEEPING FIVE YEAR OLD SISTER it's not fine. Methinks Galen is more of a gentleman than that.

I was the last one in in my family. They tried to pull me out, but it wasn't until they stopped badgering me about it that I left. It drove me crazy to have them tell me how stupid I was to still be in. I was a proud idiot. In my opinion, the best you can do is live a good life OUTSIDE the cult and let them see it. Show them you have a "more abundant" life than they do in their sad little world. Treat them with kindness and respect. If my folks had done that I would have been out years earlier. But instead I marked and avoided them and didn't talk with them for five years., Sometimes that stuff backfires. Bigtime.

There are many things about this situation that have bothered me a lot - so much so that I had nightmares about it the night after the story broke. I had a hard time figuring out why it bothered me so much (besides the whole "sexually fondling your young sibling is wrong" stuff.) And it comes back to my time in twi from childhood to adulthood. Here are the things that bother me: 1. The hiding of the sin - dealing with the problem in-house instead of involving proper authorities who could actually HELP and COUNSEL those involved. The Duggars found out their son was molesting his sisters. They went to the CHURCH to get help, and decided to send their son to a "christian camp" with hard labor to help him get over the problem. They didn't get any real counselling for any of the kids or themselves. Sound like TWI much? How often was child molestation/abuse swept under the rug by leadership? I know of several instances listed on this site, and more that I have known about personally. 2. They brought him to a cop for a "talking to" and the cop turned out to have his own collection of child porn that he is now spending time in prison for. How many times were people in TWI held up as great examples to us who had the worst crap in their lives? VPW's marriage anyone? Martindale's? All the extramarital sex and abuse and rape, and these a s s h o l e s are held up as shining examples. Just like this cop. Who never filed a report. 3. Homosexuality is the ultimate sin... Yup. Totally willing to forgive the son who molested the daughters, sweep it under the rug, but the whole while accusing people they had never met - of molesting children, namely the LGBT community. Michelle Duggar recorded a robo call urging people to vote against legislation for equal rights for the LGBT community BECAUSE THEY WILL MOLEST YOUR CHILDREN. Really? How about your STRAIGHT SON who molested your kids? How about how he is now running (oops, formerly running) a HATE GROUP against homosexuals. Yup, because consensual sex between adults is so much worse than feeling up your five year old sister. 4. The throw away nature of females - his sisters. Taught that they are only good if they remain physically/sexually pure. That they are "like a cup filled with other people's spit" if they have premarital sex. Taught to be submissive to the male authority figure. Taught that their only purpose is to serve the man. Men are superior in every way, and her worth only comes from serving them. The Duggar's statement focuses on their SON and how he has recovered, nothing about the daughters he molested. 5. The attitude that we should all just let bygones be bygones because he is forgiven. He came back after a couple months of hard labor to LIVE in the SAME HOUSE with his victims, who he molested in their sleep. EVERY DAY having to know that he DEFILED YOU (because of their purity teachings) and you have to trust him again. Can you imagine? They homeschooled. There was no where those girls could go to get away from him. And everyone expected (and demanded) that they just forgive him and trust him and carry on as if nothing had happened. Reminds me of so many times I had to work with people who had done terrible things to me - because they had gotten "back in fellowship" with God. Like my Way Disciple coordinator who would tell strangers we were witnessing to that I had slept with him (a LIE) and once he was confronted by leadership I had to continue to work with him. 6. That there are so many "fans" that still defend him and the parents... saying that anyone who says differently is attacking "family values" or "Christian values" - last time I looked child molestation is not covered under "family values" or "Christian values." Don't hold yourself up as a paragon of virtue while you cover up the crap in your past. Don't come to me telling me about the "Rightly divided Word of God" when you are raping young women behind closed doors all the while telling them you are healing them. And those people on the internet who are still "Team Duggar" need to take a little deeper look. Just like we did when we found out about the cover up in twi. And I'm out. Have a great night everyone. Hoping mine is free of Duggar induced PTSD nightmares. Love ya.

One of the best things I learned in my early days of recovery at the cafe was that everyone has a different reality based on their own individual experiences in life, and that IT IS OK if we don't all experience the world, or even the shared cult experience the same way. Someone else's opinion may be different from mine, someone else's beliefs may differ from mine. It's ok if I don't agree, and it's ok if they don't agree with me. I can still respect that person, care for that person, and treat them well, even while disagreeing. It think it's pretty nifty. I like being kind. It's pretty awesome. But then again, I'm not an "old Catholic" yet... At 42, I still think I'm pretty young. Right? :wink2:/> However, I still reserve the right to turn those trying to sell me religion away if I have better things to do - like laundry, or drinking a peaceful cup of coffee, or petting the cat, or playing with my kid, or spending time with my husband, or watching Game of Thrones.

My neighbors on one side are part of a fundamentalist christian cult who are praying to bring about the end of the world, and while I am not too cool on seeing Zuul any time soon, I am not going to pick a fight about their beliefs. I am sure they think we are all going to hell because of the statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe and the statue of St Francis of Assissi in the front flower garden. Arguments with religious fanatics are useless, and I no longer find them entertaining, but more of a waste of time and energy. One great thing about being Catholic - I can now answer the door when people come by witnessing and say "Sorry, I'm Catholic" and close the door, just like so many Catholics did to me while I was a WOW Ambassador and a Way Disciple.

Well, I was raised Lutheran, then Wiccan, then TWI.... And now I am a Buddhist Catholic with a little bit of Pagan thrown in there as well. I never believed in the trinity, and now I believe in A trinity, but not the one that is taught in Christian churches. And my belief if just MY belief, not one that was taught to me through sanctioned church doctrine... I believe that God has three central aspects - God as a Father, God as a Mother, and God as Progeny. I believe that each aspect is equally important, and that each is God. I believe that religion got scared of the Divine Feminine and switched her out for the Holy Spirit, because that was easier than treating female as equal to male. But like I said, that's just me and my Pagan leanings.And isn't it great that I can have my own opinions now and not give a flying poop about anyone else's approval? I think so. Is the Trinity all that important in the whole scheme of Life, the Universe, and Everything? I don't think so. Far more important to love, be kind, and live a good life while you can, in my opinion.

Thank you for that, Johniam.

Thanks for all the talk guys, keep it coming. Anecdotes, thoughts, whatever you got.

I don't believe the skills are taught anywhere on a consistent basis. I didn't know what a "straw man" or a "false equivalency" was until I landed here on GSC.

I still believe that teaching critical thinking skills as part of public education would help a lot of this... As well as teaching proper debating techniques. How to recognize fallacious arguments and premises... I didn't develop any of that until I left TWI. Plus, it would help with all of the stupid things people share on the interwebs. I could cut down on my Snopes link posting. In a perfect world...

Thank you for that memory, Bolshie... Now I need to go listen to something more uplifting to get it out of my head... Like Rob Zombie.

Something that struck me was the language of "believer" and "household" ... No mention of forgiveness to anyone outside of their little tiny group. In other words, you need to forgive me, but not so much anybody else.

http://theway.org/article.php?page=jan_15&lang=en Found this article on TWI's site when I was trying to remember an address for a resume. Feel free to discuss...

It was mandatory in my fellowship for all skirt wearing. In Vegas. In the summer. Just wrap my legs in plastic wrap and put me in an oven. I'm done.

There have been some remarks made in some other threads about complaining about TWI... so, I'm going to start a thread about how life has become better since leaving TWI. Let me count some of the "ways"... 1. I have a wonderful relationship with my husband that is based on love for each other as equals. We respect each other. I have learned that disagreement is ok, and that submission of my will and opinions is unnecessary and harmful to a relationship of equals. My XX chromosomes dl not make me inferior in any way to my husband. And we love each other better because of this. We have been married for ten years come April, and are more in love than we ever have been before. 2. I have cherished relationships with my family, both my blood relations and the family I married into. My own family who I rejected by marking and avoiding them have accpeted me back with open arms, and those relationships get stronger every year. My brother who was abandoned by my family at the age of 16 due to his "rebellious nature" (actually because they were told to abandon him) has a wonderful relationship with his own son now. In fact his son came and stayed with my family for two weeks this summer. He and my daughter are two weeks apart on age and their love for each other is so amazing. 3. I have a rich emotional life which I embrace fully, both the sad, the glad, and the mad. 4. I have developed critical thinking skills and the ability to form my own opinions. I can also debate those opinions and change them whenever I see fit. 5. Other people's opinions do not matter to me as much. I don't care if I am a stumbling block... I am just me, and people need to deal with that and get over it. If someone's faith is so weak that something I say or do or what I wear causes them to lose it, then it's on them, not me. 6. I have rekindled relationships with dear old friends I would never have accepted while I was in twi... specifically two friends from high school who are both gay. One is a drag queen who's stage name is Anita Cocktail... he is the funniest person on my facebook page. And the other is a dear friend who has helped me through troubled times with the best listening ear a person could use. 7. I am free to be my authentic self without censure or self condemnation. 8. I have friends who are other religions, agnostics, and atheists, and I love them all and respect their choices. They enrich my life. 9. I have regained my empathy. 10. I have a pet. 11. I no longer own pantyhose. 12. I have stability in my location, and have put down real roots. 13. We are going to buy a house in the next two years. 14. I have regained my creative side and am no longer afraid to express myself in my writing. 15. I truly enjoy my spiritual life. 16. My daughter is getting a quality education through a Catholic school, and I don't have to explain why we chose that route to anyone, nor am I afraid she will be influenced by "devil spirits" while she is there. 17. I no longer think devil spirits are behind everything and everyone. 18. I have my nights and weekends free if I want them that way. 19. No more "no cooking with garlic or onions on fellowship nights!" 20. I can now witness to my beliefs through the qualities I live rather than the quantity of doors I knock on, or random people I harass in a mall. I could go on, but 20 is a nice, even number.

ah, John... I see you haven't changed. Thankfully, I have, and your opinion of me and my beliefs matters not to me. You have yours, I have mine. In that change of beliefs I feel my heart has been healed. I hope yours has, too, if you suffered hurt.

When my parents were first involved (and by relation, me) we had a lot of new people. It was a fun, exciting time. Our fellowship grew so large we had people sitting in our loft that overlooked our living room, and more in the kitchen because we didn't have enough room. And we grew so big HQ decided we needed Way Corps. And that effectively ended the growth and we lost most of the people in the branch. it was the same where I went WOW. We had growth until they moved the Limb to our town. Once legalism and confrontation showed up in the form of the WC, people lost their enthusiasm and left.

To be a$$holes and ruin it for everyone... To give us something to argue with our families over, thereby helping to sever family ties.

In Way World, we were told that to be this way (harsh, confrontational, etc.) was being loving. They used this verse: Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself unless thou also be tempted. They took that term meekness and made it out to be "meekness to the word" instead of "gentleness" or "humility" as it is rendered in other version of the Bible other than the King James. Then they used this verse: I John 5:2 By this we know we love the children of God, when we love God and keep his commandments. So, to love the children of God, we have to keep his commandments - not actually LOVE them, not be NICE or CARING to them - NOOOOOOOO. WE DO THE WORD AND THAT IS ENOUGH AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, TOO FRIGGIN' BAD. And then tie in the whole "be in control of your emotions" stuff and you have a really big mess on your hands. People in TWI changed Love (which God IS) into "DOING THE WORD" ™. We do the Word when we RESTORE each other when they are at fault by being meek to the WORD. It all gets screwed up from there. THIS is changing the truth of God into a lie and worshipping and serving the creation (The BIble) more than the Creator. 2 Peter 2:3 NIV In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

The first time was in TWI. A few weeks ago it was the scripture reading at Mass, and that was really weird... They focused on the love God has for us, not the steal, kill, and destroy part.

I had to think really hard to actually remember the text of the verse... It's not one I go to much anymore. TWI's example of the "more abundant life" was so far from abundant that it tainted the meaning of the word for me. That "more abundant life" just means misery, slavery, oppression, greed, manipulation, and destruction. Funny, sounds more like "steal, kill, and destroy," does it not? Honestly, I rarely read the Bible anymore. I do listen to the Bible being read by someone else - it bypasses the part of my brain that associates it with my experiences in TWI. Otherwise it doesn't serve any purpose but to cause me to relive that hell over and over again. I do attend church regularly. I found that I enjoy the Roman Catholic mass very much - probably because it is so very different from TWI. I haven't lost my belief in God, but I don't try to make Him/Her/It into something I can understand completely. I no longer believe in the perfection of the "rightly divided word of God" and the "mathematical precision/scientific accuracy" or whatever they called it. God's too big to be contained in a book. Well, that was a tangent... So, John 10:10 - what sticks out for me is a whole lot of $#!TTY memories from the tine I was in TWI. The verse has lost all positive meaning for me. That answer the question?

I don't remember the correct way, but it wasn't the way I was doing it (funny, I make my living by cooking nowadays). I watched the old movie Gaslight a week or so ago and was struck by the similarities to how TWI worked to make us all doubt ourselves. In Gaslight, a newly married woman is convinced by her husband that she is losing her mind, and she comes dangerously close to losing her sanity. The Way did that to a lot of us through incidents like the ones described above, especially new life's example. I know I ended up with mental illness because of my experiences in twi - depression, PTSD. It drove some to suicide.