JavaJane

how do you mean? Tussle in the literal sense??

It's funny, a lot of those words give power to the individual - power of choice (no, won't, can't), or an implied innate ability within oneself (creative), or an ability to control one's destiny by our actions for good or bad (kharma), or an ability to control our body/mind (yoga, meditation) etc.... While in contrast the law of believing as it is taught by twi on the surface makes it SOUND like the individual has power but is actually a method to HAVE CONTROL over individuals by how it was applied. I'm hoping that string of thought makes sense.

Balanced, I am one who comes and goes at the café... I show up when I feel like I need to or if I feel I can help by posting. Right now I am in a helping stage and not so much a needing one. GSC is a great place, and if you decide to stick around, great... Come and go as you please. I am looking forward to your posts!

Still thinking... I got this ridiculous forwarded email that I had recieved before I left twi again recently... And it hit me completely differently than it did last time I got it. It's the one about how 911/Katrina/fill-in-the-disaster-of-the-moment emails where the author says the reason we have all these horrible thing happen in our country is because we dont't allow prayer in schools/too many homosexuals/liberals are evil. Back when I first got the email I thought, "yeah, that's right! It's all the unbelief!". Now I think, "Thatwas a horrible thing that happened to those people. No one deserves that. I should pray for them instead of thinking they did something to deserve this.". And then I delete the email. Chance and circumstance happen to all of us.

I don't think that being rich makes you bad... I think the trick is not allowing success and wealth, all that good stuff that we have, to make us feel that we are superior to anyone else.

I read the stuff on Momentus a while back and it got me thinking about the whole mentality involved in categorizing people as victims or victors, winners or losers, and the "spiritual competition." I have also been struck recently by the same thought process in politics. That somehow those of us who are "victors" (successful, healthy, prosperous) are better people than those who are victims (unsuccessful, sick, and poor) - basically the "haves" are better than the "have nots"... So much of this thinking is involved in twi doctrine - God blesses us when we are good little believers... Bad stuff happens when we break fellowship. Break it down to its most simple form and it looks like this: Good behavior, good person = God's blessings = success, health, wealth (aka: The More Than Abundant Life) simplify this further: Success, health, wealth = good person who is blessed by God. Now, compare to this: Evil behavior, evil person = withholding of God's blessings = loss, sickness, poor even simpler: loss, sickness, poor = bad person, evil so, pretty much God likes successful people and doesn't like poor people. Same goes for sick people. (remember we were taught how sickness is caused by broken fellowship?) Well, that philosophy sucks. And it is wrong, condemning, and unkind. And it's based on works, not grace. It's rooted in pride and arrogance. Might doesn't make right. I was even told by one leader that in order for someone to be a murder victim, the victim had to be just as possessed as the murderer. Evil. This is evil. You do not blame the victim for the crime committed against them. I guess it's convenient when you are Victor P W and you get to blame your own victims of rape. They needed it, they asked for it when they came to ask for counsel. I was healing them. Yup. Blame it on the victims. I guess it took a Victor to make us all victims.

Congratulations on you son's wedding, Oakspear! Balanced, GSC is a great place to find the other side of the story when it comes to all things twi. And you can generally find someone here who was eyewitness to many of the events that shaped twi history. Ask away, post away.... We're glad to hear you, and I am personally glad to have another of recent departures here!

What goes around... Hee hee. I love kharma.

My Granny used to say God had three answers for every prayer: Yes, no, or later when you are ready. I thought it was trite when I got into twi, but there is a lot of wisdom in that simple answer. We pray and then we put our faith in God that he will give us what is best for us when we need it. It puts things in perspective. Just because you ask doesn't mean you are going to get it. Bliss, I love the comparison with the child. My daughter was at the toy store today with me and her dad. She isn't quite two yet. She climbed into one of those motorized small sized cars (think Barbie Jeep) and then told her dad, "I want car now." He told her no. She was still telling me that she wanted the car 20 minutes later, but louder, and more whining. I told her she would have to wait to get a car until she is 16. She may want a car now, and she can ask, but the answer is no until she is older.

Yup... He looks about like a typical cop last time I saw him.

This is a little off topic, but interestingly enough the Pharoah I was reading about where this happened was actually the first FEMALE Pharoah - Hatshepsut. I know Rosalie is old, but probably not old enough to be that Pharoah... or is she?

Things are better with me than they ever were in twi. Nothing bad happened at all when we left. I have wondered if back in the day, with all of VPW and LCM's bodyguards around if anyone ever got roughed up - or bit by a guard dog. Maybe that is what they were referring to when they said bad things would happen if you left? Nowadays, I don't think L!nder could run fast enough to catch anyone... he's getting a little wide around the middle.

The ancient Egyptians used to mark out the names and destroy any pictures of dead Pharoahs who the priests did not approve of... the Way does this as well. All images, all teachings, even the STS tapes from the LCM days have been removed and probably destroyed. The last time I knew, the only thing left of him was a small video clip during the TWI promotion video and *maybe* a copy of the Rise and Expansion book. And they never speak of him except in hush-hush tones in corners of the room. Like he was Voldemort or something. No explanation has been given for what happened to him, no explanation has been given for the "consensual" affair (singular) that he had.... no apologies for those he kicked out wrongly... Nope. He just no longer exists. It's like a cat burying it's $hi+ in the litterbox. You can't see it, but it still stinks to high heaven.

When I was iin twi, I would hear horror stories about people who had left twi only to be jumped on and devoured by the adversary because those people had "walked out from under God's protection." Stories about people being killed in freak accidents, children dieing, incurable diseases, storms, and it goes on... I want to know if any of this happened or not - I know with the amount of people (thousands, right?) who left en masse when LCM put out his loyalty thingie it would be just a matter of statistics that some of this stuff would happen to at least a couple of people, but twi made it sound like it happened to everyone who left - especially those who were in leadership positions. So, any truth to this? Or is it all just the twi-pical lies? (I know it's lies, but I want the lurkers to know, too.)

Actual reality is: There are a lot of colors in this world, everything is not black and white... Things are not so simple. TWI is not "Zion"... if you got out more, you could see that. And it's pretty nice outside those walls - a lot less bondage. I left TWI, and so did a lot of other people. God blessed us, and we are still alive and kicking. You will not be possessed if you decide to think outside of TWI's rules. Thinking for yourself is a wonderful thing - they don't want you to do it because if you start thinking, you will see your prison. If you want to know about real love, read the Gospels and learn about Jesus Christ. Be kind to people. Be kind to yourself. Love God and your neighbor as yourself... Love does not mean jumping on someone when they sneeze the wrong way. Rosalie and company have NO POWER outside TWI. They have no power over you unless you give it to them. And only you are responsible before God for yourself. Anything else is horse$h!+.

TWI's version of reality is anything but reality. When I left, my "reality" completely crumbled. It left me devastated. I had been living in a dream world for my ENTIRE adult life. TWI's version of reality says things are black and white, good and bad, nothing inbetween (except the difference between "good" and "best") TWI's version of reality says things are better "in the walls of Zion." TWI's version of reality has an adversary that will attack and kill you if you leave TWI. TWI's version of reality says you will be possessed if you don't "control your thinking" to be within the guidelines of "the Word." TWI's version of reality talks about a loving God, but they know nothing about real love. TWI's version of reality has a president and a BOD that are "spiritually responsible" for us. LIES, LIES, LIES.

How else are they going to make money selling books? It's not like they have any new people trying to get them.

I had some hope that those two would have woken up and left twi by now. Probably a vain hope, but it was there. I will pray for them.

Hey, OldSkool... What ever happened with that young people's fellowship?

One thing I have learned is this: those of us who were duped by twi were NOT STUPID PEOPLE. You are not stupid, I am not stupid. I would say that the population of GSC as a whole is pretty intelligent. The posts here are (for the most part) intelligent and well thought out. (Except when I digress into my stupid jokes - I have the sense of humor of an 8 year old sometimes)... It's not like we lack intelligence or insight. So don't beat yourself up on that point. But you should pat yourself on the back for being smart enough to leave.

Bramble: yes, yes and yes. I have a few new hobbies and they have helped immensely with self esteem and with just being generally peaceful (especially gardening for me - being with nature and enoying it as a part of being close to God helped a lot.) And we did think we were saving the world. Like we were some sort of superheroes. We weren't. It doesn't mean we aren't still important or special. We are. We just have to find out who we are in reality, not in the made up world of twi.

Now, OldSkool... the aim is to be EXCEPTIONAL not the EXCEPTION. Glad you are here, OldSkool. Last time I looked it was 32 posts in a 24 hour period? Seriously??

Therapy... Seriously. It helped A LOT.. I went first by myself and then with my husband. There are a lot of people who are victims of spiritual abuse, not just from twi. A good therapist will have some experience in that category. Ask if it's something they are familiar with. I went to a psychotherapist - they ask a lot of questions to help you understand what you are thinking and why. Read here at GSC. Post here, ask questions Also read "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse." Get a different version of the Bible if you still want to read it. I put mine away for a while becuase it made me think in twi brain when I pulled it out. And be thankful that you are out... I personally am thankful for twi - without them I never would have met my husband or had my daughter. Both are irreplaceable. And think of the people you can help now. And you may never get over it. And that is ok. I'm probably never going to. It was my entire life for over 20 years.

All seed are homosexuals. Logic problem solved courtesy of twi logic.

OldSkool, that is exactly the impression I had of him, too.