JavaJane

Yeah, I have a cousin who is expecting twins - she's OCD like me and wants names that will sound harmonious together, have nice meanings, are Gaelic or Norse in origin, and when in combination with their last name (which is a common one) is not already in use as a domain on the internet. I think it might be genetic.

yeah, you are right about the name meaning thing... I was meaning more along the lines that their parents knew the meaning of the name and named them that name on purpose... maybe they wanted a daughter who would stand up for what they thought was right. Both of their families were under oppressive governments at the time, Miriam in Egypt, and Mary in the Roman Empire. Just a thought... I know before we named our daughter I looked at the meaning of every name we liked before we chose the name we did, as well as who in history had that name. But then again, I am a little OCD about naming someone else since they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. I wanted the name Miriam, actually, but the spouse shot that one down (darnit!)

It all depends on what you are rebelling against... For instance, the names of two major women in the Bible mean "Rebel" - Miriam, the prophetess sister of Moses, and Mary, the mother of Jesus. Both of them were named appropriately, as they rebelled against the wrong in their environments. And, I think Jesus could be considered a rebel - he spoke up and founght AGAINST the religious heirarchy of His day. We don't want to rebel against God, but rebellion against those who oppress God's people, who turn God's name into somthing to control and corrupt the innocent? You betcha!

From a previous thread, "Tethered to TWI": Funny you should mention this - this is the teaching that actually got me to believe in what twi taught because as a child (prior to age 12 when my family got involved in twi) I read and read and read the Bible. This verse always bothered me, because it seemed very obvious that Paul was being told by God to NOT GO to Jerusalem, and because of Paul's ego (seemingly wanting to sacrifice himself and his ministry needlessly) he went anyway and all the bad stuff God said would happen happened. To me it showed that Paul was fallible unlike Jesus Christ, and that he made mistakes, just like all men do. Ironically, TWI (made up of human beings) cannot admit they make mistakes. Also, ironically, I thought this teaching meant that in TWI leaders (and the ministry itself) would admit they made mistakes and change when they needed to. And the ultimate irony, TWI lauds Paul's epistles (remember, Paul is fallible according to the above teaching from PFAL) to the skies while shunning the gospels which speak about the only infallible man, Jesus Christ. And this should be the start of a new thread, so here it is.... Maybe I just thought that teaching was ultra-cool because I was 13 or so when I heard it... But it still makes sense to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this? **edited for clarity.

That is MESSED UP... and slightly less subtle that what I would expect. And I am making a new thread on the Paul to Jerusalem subject because I have a lot to say, and I don't want to derail this one.

Thanks, waysider. Racoon knocked over a pot and broke it last night.... I think I will call a professional. This is getting ridiculous. He ate the heads off of some of my marigolds, too. Why the marigolds, I don't know...

I think that was it for me exactly. I stuck through my WOW year because of the commitment I made, same with Way Disciple, and for the few years following, even though I was miserable and I knew the teachings were empty... I had made a commitment and I would stick it out no matter what. When I got married, I made a deeper vow before God to my husband, and in my mind I also made the same vow to any children we would have - that they would always be first in my heart - and that twi wouldn't take them away from me like they did with my parents and siblings. And when that fellowship coordinator asked me if my unborn baby was "a good thing" I knew it was time to leave.

sounds like Way Disciple to me...

Well, this all just reminds me so much of a book I read right after I got out of twi called Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go To Work by Paul Babiak, PhD and Robert D. Hare, PhD that I had to pull it out and take a look... see if this sounds familiar: "They make use of the fact that for many people the content of the message is less important than the way it is delivered. A confident, aggressive delivery style - often larded with jargon, cliches, and flowery phrases - makes up for the lack of substance and sincerity in their interactions with others. This skill, coupled with the belief that they deserve whatever they can take, allows psychopaths to use effectively what they learn about a person against the person as they interact with him or her - they know what to say and how to say it to exert influence." or "Psychopaths invest a lot of mental energy in identifying and manipulating their victims, but they don't spend much energy trying to uphold a mask for those with little utility to them; the return on investment is just not there for them."

All you lovely gardeners, could I ask you a question? I have a racoon who has been helping himself to my hummingbird feeder and occassional plant in my deck container garden. Last year the little bugger ate my cantalopes from right off the deck the night before I was going to pick them. Any ideas how to keep him off the deck?

I feel a little sick... Talk about comparing oneself to Jesus Christ. What, was VP GENETICALLY ENGINEERED BY GOD to be the MOGFODAT? Sounds a little like the whole "chosen race" Nazi thing to me.

I am now wondering what the symbolism is behind a sea gull.... opportunistic garbage eater? (Like I should talk - one side of my family's crest has severed boar's heads as its device. I guess we liked to eat a lot even way back then.)

the story goes that the original coat of arms had swans on it, but VP changed it to doves because of the spiritual significance... That takes some ego to change your family's crest... Especially since it was generally given by royalty because of your family's accomplishments. I always thought that was messed up that he changed it. That it was disrespectful.

Everything you just mentioned above was done to me by one of my leaders except for the stuff about my Dad. Instead, with me he used "I am not Mosqueda, I am not Craig Martindale, you need to allow yourself to trust me!!" (Mosqueda and Martindale are the ones who kicked my family out of the family corpse and had them marked and avoided which I followed, not speaking to my family for years and years.) I hated that man. He made my life miserable. I would cry after every conversation I had with him (I wouldn't let him see me crying, though.) I felt like I was being mentally and emotionally raped (and I hate to use this term, but it is the closest I can use... for you actual rape victims, please pardon the term - what you went through was far worse than me.) He tried to pry every secret from me, every thought I had, every emotion. And I wouldn't give it to him, and that just made it worse.

I once told a new(er) person about some of the rumors and the power struggle that happened after Geer's POP paper because the person had asked what had happened to VPW and how LCM became president. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. I was just answering their question with what I knew happened, which was common knowledge in twi at the time. When leadership overheard, I was hauled off for a big butt-chewing because I was throwing doubt on Craig's presidency by telling them about that situation. I told the leader, "but that is what happened. How can it be bad to tell them the truth." His answer? "We don't want to be a stumblingblock."

I don't think people who are still in twi actually pray to VP, but VP is lauded to the skies as the end all be all of "The Word." More is taught about what VP said or did or taught than is taught about Jesus Christ. VP's books are read more often than the actual gospels that speak about the life of Christ in TWI, and I think that speaks volumes. And most people who are still in twi really and truly believe that VP was some sort of wonderful, benevolent being - they speak of him as their "Father in the Word." His picture is everywhere at HQ. His quotations (most of which are actually OTHER people's quotations) are framed and hung on walls, and have been collected in books. In the OSC buliding his geneology hangs in the lobby. The Victor Paul Weirwille Prevailing Word Auditorium is named in his honor, and a gold statue of him stands in the lobby to greet everyone who comes in. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard people who are still involved with twi say that if they could just get things back to the way they were when Dr. Weirwille was alive, the Word would move again, people would come to fellowship more - Ah, those were THE DAYS. And they will never ever consider that VP was a rapist, a plagiarist, an alcoholic, and a con man. Nope. They even teach from his biography, Born Again to Serve. A book written by his wife who is reported to have said at his funeral that he was "a mean, mean man." I know this has all been hashed over and then rehashed again here at the GSC, but so many of the newer folks who are still in, who are still hanging on to fellowship in the hopes that one day they will be able to get back to those good old days need to hear the truth about VP from those folks here who knew him personally. Because let me tell you, you don't want those days back. The Way is rotten from its foundation upwards. It's not going to get any better.

Bolsehevik, women are treated like children in twi, so I can see how you would get confused. And Gen, right on. I for one don't weigh the same as a duck. One other point - just because there is a female as president of twi don't think for a second that women have moved up in the ranks. This is a woman who acted as a pimp for LCM (and probably VPW as well.) What kind of respect do you have for your fellow womankind if you are willing to procure women for the supposed man of God? Not much, methinks.

There was an incident posted in an earlier thread where a woman who had pointed out a mistake made by a leader was told that she was being rebellious, and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. How many times was this verse used against us ladies? I know it was used against me a few times, and it was used against my mother A LOT. I can't think of a time I heard it used against a MALE, though. After all, men can't practice witchcraft (right....) and women are the ones who need to be kept in line. Yup. TWI needs all the submissive women they can get. Because women who think for themselves are in danger of becoming witches. (oh, no!) Sounds like just another control method to this little rebellious independent woman. edited because I hit post too quick.

BUT they don't tell you that rock star status leaves as soon as you are done with being Way D. It did for us. Once the nametags were off, we reverted back to non-important little peons for them to poop on.

Someone here once brought up that the way the adversary looked in Athletes of the Spirit is EXACTLY like storms look on the radar. coincidence? or spiritual perception? hmmmmmm...........

Now you have that fracking song stuck in my head... "be a Way Disciple! Live and speak God's Word each day! Live a disciplined lifestyle, growing walking on God's Way!" You're giving me flashbacks, OldSkool. I have to say Way Disciple was better than WOW, though. Mainly in that it was 6 months shorter than the WOW year. Way Disciple was a horrible year for me, except that it was the year I met my husband. My mom (who knew about how bad twi was since my family had gone into the WC prior to this and had been made M&A - and who I had just reunited with prior to my WD tenure) ordered basic groceries for my Way Disciple family and had them delivered to our house a few times. She also ordered cable and paid for it for the six months we were out there so that we could see the news - she didn't want us to become completely isolated. I have a wonderful mom... and since she wasn't in twi, no one could tell her not to give to us. It was such a wonderful thing she did, and I knew it then. I REALLY know it now. Way Disciple depleted my entire savings - before that time I had been working in a successful managment position where I was earning quite a lot of money. In fact, I gave up a LOT of money to be able to go - in an effort to convince me to stay on at the company I was working for before I left, the owner told me that if I decided to stay on for five years he would make sure I was making a six figure salary in the next two years. I decided to go WD instead. I tell my husband that that was how much I had to pay to meet him. But anyway, the other members of my household were a lot younger than me and one dropped out right before WD assignments, so our household was short one person's income. And the other girls didn't have any savings... so I covered. Kept us in ham sandwiches and Doritos for six months. Our team coordinator was an foot and a misogynistic pig. He loved to make sexual comments towards me and the other girls, even though we were all much younger than him. He also liked to harass us like that during witnessing when we were in public. I reported him to the local branch coordinator who put a stop to it - but the team coordinator never really understood WHY it wsa inapproprite or disrespectful to say things of a sexual nature to us. Idiot. He also told us that we couldn't study anything outside of what was prescribed in the WD handbook... no independent word studies, nothing. My husband though was one tough cookie when it came to dealing with the team coordinator. He wouldn't let him treat us girls badly. One night I was sick and we were witnessing in the freezing fracking middle of winter in a trailer park in the middle of the night. I was teamed up with my future husband. He saw how I was feeling and told me we should go sit in his warm car - and that we didn't have to tell the team coordinator. I will never forget that. He also went to bat for one of my housemates who didn't want to go witnessing on her day off but our team coordinator was trying to make her go with him so he could be two by two. Thank God for my husband. He didn't put up with the crap, and still managed to get through the year without getting kicked off the field. I'm still not sure how he did it.

Ham, I'm not entirely sure she's HUMAN... (but I know she's definitely not a squirrel.)

Polynesian - sounds like you have one heck of a daughter!!