JavaJane

And an aircraft carrier?

Another ROA memory... running out in a rainstorm with a bunch of other kids and being hauled back inside a tent by Bless Patrol and then given a good reproof session for not being more careful. I was enjoying the rain because where I was from NEVER got that much rain at a time. Silly me... I had forgotten that weather is caused by the Adversary.

Maybe I'm giving Rosie a little too much credit, but I think she knows EXACTLY what she is doing and doesn't give a crap about God - just using that as a veneer as a way to be waited on hand and foot by servants who are paid less than minimum wage, and have $54,000,000.00 at her disposal tax free. Her house is more than comfortable, and all upkeep is handled by the Staff who worship her and will do anything she wants. She has her own little population of brainwashed people willing to do whatever she wants in the name of God. And it's all based on lies and hypocrisy. Here is why I think this: Rosalie got involved a LONG time back, and she was older than most of those who got involved at that time. VP said that he respected her (which we know he rarely respected women at all.) She sat in the background, learning the con, manipulating and micromanaging the life out of everything. She fed LCM (and probably VP) women who she had helped coerce into sexual servitude - she knew it was wrong. Why did she do it? To curry favor. She laid in wait until LCM's debauchery (which she endorsed by her procurement of women for LCM) finally resulted in a lawsuit, allowing her to step in and take over. It is reported that she is a lesbian in a ministry that vehemently condemns homosexuality - once again a moral conundrum for her, which she seems to ignore. She stated at the beginning of her term as president that BOD positions would not be "lifetime" assignments - and they haven't been EXCEPT FOR HER. Another lie, more hypocrisy. She has effectively weeded out all those who question her, who try to bring her back to "the Word"... she never had a conscience to sear, in my opinion. She is living high on the fat of the sacrifices of good people trying to do their best for God and she knows exactly what she is doing. Where else other than a cult in the middle of a cornfield with a veneer of nice Christianity could someone get away with this? As for her fellow directors, I think they are just as duped as the rest of the fold.

Just my opinion: VP was a con man... He knew what he was doing and was fine with the evil he did. I would put the dirty uncles Howard and Harry in the same category. I don't know about Ermal Owens or Don Weirwille. L Craig was deceived and thought he was doing God's will because he worshipped VP. What about the current BOD? (I have my opinions... What are yours?)

Thanks, Paw!!

This is my memory of the ROA - deciding that if I went to the showers early enough in the morning that they would be less crowded... instead I found out that all the women who were of the extremely large variety all showered early. I was standing there trying to get up to the shower area - you had to walk across some sort of gangplank like thing to get up to the showers. A VERY VERY VERY large woman was standing on it talking to a friend. I was trying to get by and said, "excuse me"... She looked at me as if I was being rude, and turned sideways to let me by. THERE WAS STILL NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR ME TO PASS BECAUSE SHE WAS THE SAME WIDTH ALL THE WAY AROUND. I cleared my throat and said, "I'm sorry, I still can't fit through." She finally got off the walkway and was obviously very offended by me telling her to move. Please keep in mind, this woman was naked except a normal size bath towel that only covered the bare necessities up front, and I was not going to squeeze past. As a teenager, I was traumatized.

I guess TWI was an equal opportunity oppressor when it came to this verse! It still amazes me that a group that is so caught up in "rightly dividing the Word" according to "administrations" loved to pull out OT verses to control people with.

Wake up calls (it took several for me)... 1. Marking and avoiding my own family due to the influence of certain leaders - Mosquito, LCM, etc. 2. When the tape was released where LCM told the believers about the "affair" someone asked "what will happen to the Body if it didn't have a head?" (I realized some people thought Martindale was the head of the body, not Jesus Christ. 3. Reuniting with my family after hearing how we need to be kinder to each other on a STS... only to be questioned by my LC as to why I was going to visit them when they were "outside the Household." 4. Having a boyfriend end up on GSC and accuse me of trying to get him into TWI by seducing him - I had done nothing of the sort and did not know people had actually done this in the past and were currently doing it. 5. Going WD and ending up with a team coordinator who told complete strangers that I was having sex with him (which I WOULD NEVER DO BECAUSE HE WAS DISGUSTING!!!) 6. Getting more and more bored with the teachings 7. Ending up with an even more abusive, manipulative leader after WD. 8. Being called on the carpet for not "fully sharing" with said leader. 9. Changing areas and overhearing a leader condemning a military family for not living closer to a fellowship. 10. Reading the depositions on GSC that showed Rosalie had first hand knowledge of LCM's "affair(s)" 11. Finding out that someone I knew had been one of LCM's women. 12. Coming to GSC. 13. Posting questions on GSC. 14. Having my fellowship coordinator come to my work after I hadn't been attending in a while. I told him I was pregnant, and he asked if "that was a good thing." And then I was gone for good.

I know that twi really tried to remove any sense of empathy or sympathy for anyone, and they partially succeeded with me. Until right before I got out I would rarely cry, nothing upset me... I was an ice queen. After I got out and started to let myself feel I had a lot of problems, because I had around 20 years of pent up emotions that all wanted to come out at once. I was a wreck. I was taught by a WC branch coordinator that murder victims were "just as possessed" as those who killed them - this led me to believe that I did not need to feel any sympathy for them or their families. I was taught that the Holocaust was wildly blown out of proportion, and that the Jews had used that excuse as a reason to manipulate the UN into giving them Israel. I didn't need to feel sorry for them. I was taught that everyone in the "Household" was superior to everyone else - I didn't need to care about those other people. I was taught that only born again believers had body, soul, and spirit. Everyone else was just an animal - an empty floating by. Why should I care? I was taught I should control my emotions and my thoughts, never question "the word of God" - so I didn't. And I stopped feeling. Being numb isn't all it's cracked up to be... I am of the opinion that twi teaches people to be without conscience, empathy, or guilt. Basically, they are trying to breed a form of psychopaths. Back to my book, Snakes in Suits for a brief quote:

OldSkool, I am so so sorry that you were ever subjected to that kind of evil. John Rupp, you are a heartless, evil, tiny little man. You misrepresent God and use His words for your own gain. Vengeance us mine saith the Lord. You'll get yours one day.

I would call it child sacrifice to the god called TWI. A lot of those kids have it in the back of their heads that if they leave it will be the end of their relationship with mom and dad, too. I personally know of one young family who is only staying involved with twi because if they leave their children won't have a relationship with their grandparents. Now that's messed up!

I just printed this monster out so that I can peruse at my leisure this afternoon... WOW. Can you say LONG thread?

Don't blame you for not reading, ex.... It's not all that entertaining! Gen, the word for servant in Exodus is a form of pais? Interesting.

Ok, so I can't find the original notes, but this is what I can reconstruct - and you might agree, you might not - this was all from my Way Daze when I worked it. Doulos - (from Strong's) a) a slave b) metaph. , one who gives himself up to another's will. Those who's service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men c) devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests d)a servant, attendant. from deo - a) to bind, fasten with chains, to throw into chains b) metaph. 1)Satan is said to bind a woman bent together by means of a demon, as his messenger, taking possession of the woman and preventing her from standing upright 2)to bind, put under obligation, of the law, duty, etc. - a) to be bound to one, a wife, a husband. 3) to forbid, prohibit, declare to be illicit. According to some references, doulos was considered the lowest of all slaves, the one who would was the feet of guests. (Sound familiar? Jesus washed the feet of the disciples. The BOT and BOD have the disciples wash their feet, not the other way around.) According to some theologians (and I can't find my notes!) the term doulos was considered an insult in Jesus' time, not the respected position in society that TWI taught. The true meaning of doulos was that those who wish to serve God should be without ego, willing to serve God's people... not be served by God's people. I am not sure what word the Septuagint uses for "servant" in Exodus 21:2 - anyone who still has research material handy, could you look it up? I don't think it is EXACTLY the same thing in meaning as the doulos who is born into the lowest slavery as it was used by the Greeks. The first occurance of doulos in the NT is in reference to a child or young person: and another verse regarding the same record uses pais, meaning a child or young person: This is in regards to a Roman centurion asking for his servant (doulos or pais) to be healed. I don't think this can be the same meaning as the record in Exodus, due to two things: #1 the age of the servant, not old enough to make a proper decision about wanting to serve his master for the rest of his life; and #2 The servant's owner is a Gentile, who would not be operating under the law in Exodus which was followed by the Jews. (HOLY COW, I almost typed "Judean" instead of "Jew" I still have some deprogramming to do!) So, pretty much you have two different meanings behind the bond-slave - the one from Exodus, and then the slave born into slavery as used by the Greek/Roman culture. Obviously, we are not born into slavery to God (or TWI for that matter). We are supposed to be born AGAIN as CHILDREN of GOD. An interesting contrast in the use of the word doulos to mean both servant by choice and servant by birth is in Galatians: This verse is in reference to being a servant to Christ by choice - in contrast to being a men pleaser (server of men). This verse seems to be referring to the Greek/Roman idea of doulos, born into slavery. The commitment to decide to serve God as a "doulos" needs to be understood within the context of God ACTUALLY being our parent, not our Master (I hope that makes sense.) Anyway, that's what I can dredge up from my fallible memory. I had a whole notebook filled with this stuff... Bottom line, TWI pushed the doulos lifetime commitment to serve as a method of putting people into bondage to TWI. I don't see the true example of the HUMILITY of a DOULOS anywhere within TWI's upper leadership - only ego and pride and wanting to be served and waited upon by others when they themselves should be washing the disciples' feet as Jesus did. Hypocrisy upon hypocrisy...

Sorry for the redundancy... I should search before I post. I was trying to recover some of my work on doulos and this site came up... scared the poop out of me.

WTF?? And... EGADS!!! I feel a lawsuit coming on.... clickety click on those little linky links and see the horrors of the STS all over again!! **edited to add another link and a smart-a$$ comment.

Started this thread because of this section of scripture quoted in the thread Tethered to TWI Matthew Henry Commentary -first two paragraphs TWI had a great thing about teaching us to be "douloses" or ("douleia" for women) – sold-out bondslaves-servants to God. But then – they put themselves in God's place, as his spokesman. They made themselves lords over God's flock. Without ever taking on the responsibilities of the owner of servant-slaves. TWI uses these verses to tell us that we should endeavor to be servants, bondslaves, sold out to the Lord (by which, of course, they mean TWI.) This is one of the first things that I studied for myself in the Bible that really started me questioning TWI's interpretation of scripture. God tells us first and foremost that we are his children, sons and daughters of God. To teach that we are servants, bond slaves and then use that as a way to control people is wrong. They teach that this is a choice an individual makes as a lifetme commitment to serve. But as Twinky put it above, they provide nothing in return. But when you look at all of the records of doulos in the Bible we see that CHILDREN were considered to be doulos - now, how can a CHILD make an informed decision to become a bondslave for LIFE? Also, we are to stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free... We are sons of God, no longer servants compelled to a life of bondage. It was all just another way to compel people to give their commitments to TWI and enslave themselves even further to their legalistic standards, to get them to forget who they actually were - Children of God. I need to pull out my notes (if I haven't thrown them out by now with all the other twi stuff) because there were a lot more specifics on the subject.

The whole doulos thing was just a way to put people deeper into bondage to TWI. Before I get too off topic on this one too... I will do what I did with Paul's trip to Jerusalem and just start a new thread... because I can go off on this topic FOR DAYS it's so messed up!!

And that is just messed up. I haven't thought of this teaching in years, and looking back on it now it is just really really wrong. No one is safe from the condemnation of TWI, not even apostles who carried on the work of the church in the first century. Of course, the Great Rapist and Plagiarist is exempt from their judgement - and obviously a much better person than James.

The class I was in wasn't run by WC, in fact there weren't any WC for hundreds of miles around. What a sweet fellowship it was, too. No wonder I stuck around for so long afterwards - I was trying to get back to what that first fellowshipwas like. People actually cared for each other and loved God. It wasn't legalistic, just a group of old hippies sitting around drinking beer and talking about the Bible.... Not at all what TWI really was. But it's what I thought TWI was for a long, long time.

And what incident was that? I'm not familiar with that story...

Every time we'd get new leadership they'd be more legalistic than the ones they replaced. I just learned to not trust anyone who was active WC, especially if they were my leadership. It would seem like we would really be having a good time doing good stuff for God, getting people to come to fellowship, prayers being answered, people being blessed ... Then placements, new leadership and the whole thing would go in the crapper as the new WC had the need to establish dominance in the area, effectively ....ing on any fire of the Word in people's lives. One of the last leadership changes we had involved a WCcouple who felt the need go delve into the personal dating lives of every single woman in the area - and when one of them had surgeryand had her mom and believer boyfriend stay at her house during recovery they threw a fit saying it was "an appearance of evil.". No one in the area even cared except them. I really think our sex lives were a source of perverted interest by them both.

I think one of the reasons it appealed to me so much was that at the mainstream churches I was attending people had problems when I would ask questions about verses like these. Maybe it was because it was coming from a kid who was under the age of twelve and they couldn't just say, "I don't know" without losing face. I was a weird kid who read way too much and took everything very seriously. Sunday School teachers hated having me in class because I would ask them stuff that normal kids just don't think about, and I wasn't satisfied with a pat answer because I wanted to know everything. TWI acted like they DID know everything, and they also acted like I could ask questions. They even had CLASSES I could take to learn more. Of course, it's pretty easy to impress a naive tweenager who doesn't have enough life experience to know who to trust and who not to, especially when your parents are gung-ho.

Every sperm is sacred.