JavaJane

At the time in my life that I should have been developing self confidence, autonomy, independence, and a sense of self worth my family got involved in twi. I have had to fight since leaving to develop those qualities in myself. My entire identity and reality was all centered around how I was in relation to "The Household of God ™.". I never developed individual sovereignty at the time of life most normal people develop it.

That is all.

I don't think I explained myself well, Trust... I'm not saying that we SHOULD be committed to any organization. That is a bad idea all the way around. I just waned to point out some differences in the way the topic was approached. This was not "upper leadership" - not even a priest - and he was allowed to get up there and say that because the upper people handled things wrongly he questioned staying with the group. I have never heard an assistant fellowship coordinator (actually, in this case it's more like an Arvanced Class Grad who teaches at fellowship once in a while) get up and openly question how upper leadership handled a situation in meeting while his WC fellowship coordinator was present. I do not believe that the Catholic church is the one and only true church. I don't think any organization can claim that. Never again will I commit myself o any organization the way I did with TWI. And I will probably still call myself Buddhist Catholic Pagan... And I might even go to a psychic fair later this month. (oooooooooh.... Living on the spiritual edge of sanity! He devil spirits must have taken control of my life!!! Oh noes!) Sorry for all the typos... I'm on my iPhone (RIP Steve Jobs) and if I type a big long post it won't let me get back to the part that doesnt fit in the window... And damn the autocorrect to heck!!!!

There is currently a priest in our diocese that is facing child pornography charges. The Archbishop in the area is either completely incompetent and ignorant of anything past the end of his nose, or he was involved in a coverup in the situation. The whole thing is horrible and I feel for the victims and their families. People are pushing for the Archbishop to step down (and I think he should.) I was sitting in mass on Saturday and the homily was given by a lay minister (I guess a deacon? He is married, and not a priest. I don't know all the titles of everybody yet.) He talked about how he was being tempted to give up on the church due to some recent things that had happened in the area, but that he felt he should stay because even if the church had problems, the church could get through them, and that we could all work for change to make it better. My hackles went up. Any talk about "commitment" to a "church" just reminds me TOOOOOOO much of my time in TWI when I sacrificed everything and everyone I loved to be committed to the organization I thought represented God. I stopped myself for a minute and told myself to quiet down and listen, to see if there was any difference between this commitment speech and the commitment speeches of TWI. And there was a difference. Subtle, but there. The difference is that the deacon openly admitted that there was a PROBLEM with the church that needed fixed. He did not say the church makes no mistakes. He did not say the church was perfect, inspired by God, etc. He ADMITTED there was evil, and that the evil caused him to question his faith. There was no talk of what would happen if he left the Catholic church, no talk about how the devil would attack him and his family. Nothing like that at all. In fact he said we all should strive to make the church better. In TWI it would have been completely different... after all TWI doesn't make mistakes.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

I LOVE chicken tortilla soup! Funny, it sounds like we both use the same recipe with the same alterations in technique!

Here's the part I don't get... they were dropped from active corps, now corps alumni. Cut off from the twi payroll. Oh well. I am sure it was all rationalized away, just like rationalizing that it was OK to have sex with your friend's husband who is a Christian minister... Perfectly normal and fine. Yup. I feel badly for her in actuality. It's gotta be hard to keep up with living like that all these years. She is a nice woman too. I had another woman who was at HQ who came to our area and implyed she was upset that she had never been one of the women Craig wanted to sleep with. She thought maybe there was something wrong with her. People are so strange.

Question for you - does TWI have a rule that they can only use that specific font on all signage?

I don't know why I thought of this today, but I remembered a woman who was in our area (still with TWI today) who I found out was one of the WC women who "serviced" LCM while she was on staff at HQ. When asked about why she thought it was ok to sleep with a married man, she said that it was ok because Donna was her friend and was ok with it. Back then when I heard this I thought it was weird, but I also figured she must have been mistaken because Donna would never OK something like that, right? Anyway, this friend of mine got married to another WC guy and then refused to service LCM anymore after that. She said LCM was ok with it and never pressured her when she said no. It wasn't a big deal. A few years pass, she and her husband with a kids in tow end up on the field, and DFAC shortly after leaving HQ. Not user if this was some sort of punishment or what. They stood by TWI anyway. A few years after this is the whole big meeting with all the believers where Craig comes out with the whole "one time consensensual affair" BS and Rosie is instated as president. They stayed and are still in. So my question is... She and probably her husband know that TWI's top leadership LiED in that meeting... She knows it was not a ONE TIME affair. They are no longer active WC... Why stay? How do you justify that?

I need some new soup recipes... Anyone out there have any suggestions?

:evildenk:Someone should plant some cameras around that joint and catch Rosie and Donna en flagrante delecto... Not that I would want to see it, but.... the power of blackmail.

I remember that I used to think (when I was really down on myself after a bad facemelting by leadership and contemplating what I would do if I was made mark and avoid) that it would be better to never know God than to live at the level of The Way International (the best of the bestest) and then be outside the walls of the Household, the fortress of Zion... Because since I knew God at that high level and had caused such problems for the Adversary that without God to protect me (He CAN'T outside the Household, dontcha know?) I would face a fate worse than death. I actually started planning my suicide at that point. Better to be dead than outside the walls of Zion. Wow. Somehow I made it out alive. God's grace abounds - He sent my husband who got me out. Thank God!

OldSkool will probably remember this better than me.. I remember hearing a story a while back about some local kids coming through and causing problems on HQ property, then leaving only to be involved in a fatal car accident or something later the same night. It was spoken of by my friends who worked at HQ in hush-hush tones, implying that the reason they had the accident was because of the attack on HQ - that God gave them over to the Adversary. How sick is that?

Still as dreary and creepy as I remember it... the lowering grey skies, the eerie too-green grass. Yuck.

I think another reason they do not promote TWLIL any more is because in comparison today's TWI is stiff, stodgy, boring, and extremely yawn-inducing. The same sorry teachings served in the same monotone way every fellowship, every Sunday Service... Makes me bored just thinking about it. If the Spirit of God ever moved in TWI it long ago was squeezed out by the overcontrolling hag that runs the place. Anything spontaneous has long ago been removed from TWI. They have planned God-inspired action right out of day to day life, and if you deviate from your word for word written out teaching - beware the wrath of Rosie! Not exactly a shining comparison to the propaganda of "Living in Love" where everything is exciting. Not to mention most of those people are gone as pen mentioned abI've.

Bramble, same here... I really had to rethink things when I married my husband. His whole family is Catholic, and they were supportive when we were in TWI, and have been supportive when we were out. A wonderful family who loves unconditionally. And I love that there is little pressure within the church among the members. People just mind their own business. SUCH a HUGE change from TWI. It's nice to be able to show up for church, be as involved as you want, or not involved... no one there trying to discern your problems or if you are or aren't possessed by what devil spirit. I also like the community involvement and how they help those who are less fortunate. A heck of a lot more "Christ-like" than TWI!

Something *kinda* ... Yesterday my daughter and I walked into an ornate Catholic church in an older section of town. Gorgeous stained glass and beautiful altar complete with marble statues set into a castle-looking backdrop also of carved stone. My daughter, being the precocious three year old she is asked me, "Mom, where's Jesus?" My answer? "Jesus is everywhere, honey." My daughter: "No, mom. I think they stuck him in that stupid castle up there."

Something else I left out of the story of the old man that might add context to the teacher's remark... She prefaced this with what she was taught as a small child growing up Catholic: "Why did God make me? To know Him, to love Him, to serve Him in this world, and to be with Him forever in the next." Maybe if the old man would shut up in the next meeting I might learn a little more about this stuff... Right now I am just learning what an arrogant foot I was while I was involved in TWI. I still think I will end up classifying myself as a Charismatic Buddhist Catholic Pagan Protestant. But I've never really fit anywhere anyway. BTW, the zombie dreams stopped. For now.

It is a good question - I guess it's the focus on God and Christ and the spiritual included as a part of living a good life that makes it different. At the time the teacher was speaking on the topic of the Trinity, stating that God became man so that man could relate more to God and vice versa. The man was arguing that since he had not ever seen Jesus that he had no proof Jesus existed and that he therefore had not proof God existed, and if we could see God we would explode (or some such meandering.) And then the same logic from PFAL that Jesus can't be the Son of God and God the Son at the same time. And to be perfectly honest, I don't really care one way or the other about the Trinity any more. Am I a bad ex-wayfer now? It's weird, because with him sitting in the class it is almost like having a TWI PFAL/Way of Abundance and Power echo in the room. Every point she makes he comes up with a comment that could have come from the mouth of VP or LCM. It's almost creepy.

:eusa_clap: :biglaugh:

Took my second class Thursday night... There is another man taking the class with me that I almost referred to the nearest TWI fellowship. He is 87 years old and I don't really know why he is taking the class other than to be a reminder to me of why I need to be humble, a reminder of who I was in TWI, a reminder of my arrogance and close-minded prejudices against all other religions. He wants "proof" of everything, wants to argue every point the teacher makes, and it is making it very hard for me to even sit in class and learn anything because he hijacks every point and turns it into why the church is wrong (any church, not just the Catholic church - he attends Bible studies and church services all over town doing the same thing he does in this class), and why the Bible is wrong because it has to be exact and scientific and mathematical and explainable... He wants God in exact scientific terms, put in a petri dish where He can be dissected and pulled apart. And he sits in disdain of the rest of the people there - his wife, the teacher, and the students. He makes faces while the teacher reads from the book, he grunts and moans while she teaches. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting answers, with wanting knowledge... but maybe we should be humble enough to know that we will not ever have all the answers. We aren't supposed to. God is bigger than we are. The Creator cannot be explained by the creation. If you want everything to be that exact go to school, take a science class, take a higher math class. In a way, it was like looking my (as TWI would put it) "old man" in the face. And he is a literal "old man." I don't want to be that anymore. I want to just sit and know that I am not God, that there are many things in life I cannot explain, and that I am fine with this role. I am not in control, God is. And I don't have to accept everything the teacher teaches, but at the same time I don't have to be an a$$ about it. Two things stoof out to me - one that he said, and one from the teacher: Old Man: "It seems like if you want to be a 'Christian' you have to just be stupid... believe stuff with no explaination." Teacher: "This Christian life is not about having an explanation for everything. We can't know everything. The Christian life is about being good, being kind, being loving. It's about living a good life. That's all."

Is Drambuie made from grapes? :)