Tzaia

I guess that's why they don't have PM privileges.

I thought I read where you didn't talk until you were 7 and was diagnosed with autism. I have a 6yr old autistic granddaughter who is non-verbal. I'd love some insight on how to reach her. If you are willing, could we talk about your experience?

I met Steve a couple of times as he breezed through Indiana trying to get followers after the big breakup. Seemed like a nice enough guy, but don't they all when they want money?

But then again we were exhorted to "get our wants and needs parallel" in the "class". That is one thing I took away from that class and used anytime someone felt a need to extort what was mine. As in - you don't "need" this anymore, with me saying that yeah, but I want it.

The wise ones never stepped in. The smart ones got the heck out quickly. Then there's us'ems. Not sure what to make of that.

I believe that's what he did. He had bought the property and it looks like he "gave" it to STFI, but I saw the check from STFI for the property.

STFI. CES was bye bye by that time. And STF gave Dan a check in November or December 2004 for the property. I saw it. It was probably December as I was gone most of Oct/Nov.

Maybe that's what they put into it. Dan was paid $250k. I saw the check. But it looks like he paid more for it than that.

Well...let's not forget that the Gospels were written after the epistles and everything else as a response that nothing was written while Jesus was walking the earth...a problem when you take into consideration what was written to whom. Blows dispensationalism out of the water. The probability that no gospel was written by a person who actually knew Jesus or was present at any of these events is rather high. The Gospels are probably more along the lines of compilations of stories and oral traditions that weren't as far "out there" as the ones that didn't make the canon. But what do I know? I never "progressed" any further than than PFAL. (added in edit mode) I went back and read the other 2 pages of comments. I have my own ideas about why there are such discrepancies. It has to do with searching scriptures to "prove" that Jesus was who he said he was. The story line was that the messiah had to come from David, be born in Bethlehem, and be called a Nazarene. Plus he's on the "wanted" list practically from birth. His conception, birth, and the fact that he wasn't killed as a baby would be considered supernatural. These stories circulated after the death, but all you have to do is look at the diversity of belief even in Paul's time to come to the conclusion that stories had become larger than life. I don't believe (anymore) that any of it was written with inerrancy in mind. I believe the gospels came about so that a cohesion of belief could begin.

No foreclosure papers filed. It's owned by Camp Vision, LLC.

I find it fascinating that there are no interior pictures.

It seems that for now they are paying the bills. No lawsuits, either personal or business.

vpw was selling recycled light as new.

One other area of difference, which is what I have put in bold face. 5 This is the written account of Adam’s family line. When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind”[a] when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died. I refuted the TWI Body soul spirit doctrine with that snippet. Apparently they agreed - but not enough to give me credit.

The former wife partook. He claims he did not. I point blank asked.

IMO, the camp property lacks the cool factor or even the quaint factor. Just a few A frames sitting about on relatively flat low tree property. There are other camp grounds on 135 in need of a new owner that have much more of what I'd look for in a facility.

John S and wife were/are(?) living in this house. It was in full renovation mode the last time I was there, which was 2004. There had been some work done to the cabins, but it was not all that (IMO). They appear to be still using the camp. It is my memory/understanding that they paid about $250,000 for the property. I can't imagine that they put $200,000 of improvements into it and the area isn't a location location location location justifying the $450,000 asking price.

That's reasonable - if you are reasonable.:confused:/>

LCM was the patron saint of what not to do.

It's a cult. It's what cults are about. Why the surprise?

And it's all so very...sad. Bored billionaires will (presumably) not miss the money. JAL's plea was (presumably) an attempt at humor. Why care? I don't know because after I disconnected in 2005, and experienced the first relief I've felt in years, I've ceased to care about what it did to me emotionally. I was just glad to be finally really free and relatively unscathed. So-called Christian organizations led by severely character disordered people and followed by earnest fools. (This is not a theological position; merely an observation of behavior that, in my opinion, doesn't line up with commonly understood Christian practices) If, after looking into an organization, you continue to follow people whom others describe as character disordered, then association becomes a choice. In my world, outcomes are determined by choices. One of the choices I've made is to not listen to what people say, but watch what they do. I avoid what I believe to be character disordered people and don't spend time wondering why they're that way. I quit reading the Bible as if it were a secret decoder ring. Heck, I quit reading the Bible because I couldn't read it without picking it apart. It simply isn't the polished, perfect piece of work it's made out to be - unless you approach it with that presumption and spend all your time trying to stuff it into that box. I do, however, care about the kids who are raised in the dysfunctional hot mess. And I honestly don't know what to do about that.

Wierwille idolaters all sound alike.

OldSkool: I was involved with CES far longer than TWI. I was never a TWI insider, but I was involved at the home office level with CES. Anyone who thinks STFI is a great organization has either drunk the kool-aid or has never been in the home office for any stretch of time. It really reminds me of how blind some become to the obvious because they are right in the middle of it. My one day a week was enough to really open my eyes...and Dan creeped me out from the get-go.

I believe I read in one of their publications that Dan "the man" was moving back west. Of course this was not too long after he made the case about how great the midwest was. For years the emphasis has been who the individuals were and that was the "proof" of the "accuracy" of their teaching. Their ranks have severely eroded where that mattered, due to their underestimation of the "JAL" factor. It really doesn't matter who's in charge anymore - not that accountability was their strong suit to begin with. Maybe someone can enlighten me (privately) about the real reasons for Dan moving west.

Exie - Charlie was JAL's youngest sibling. http://www.obitsforlife.com/obituary/191711/Lynn-II-Charles.php Here's a link about character disorders: http://counsellingresource.com/features/2008/09/10/what-is-a-character-disorder/ I didn't know JAL until after we left TWI. I did know his parents and siblings before, tho. VPW did one of those motorcycle drive through things back in the early 80s and he was at the Indiana Limb. Somehow I got invited and JAL's dad and I sat in the back and I was most irreverent (and he egged me on). I was amazed at the smoking, booze guzzling, and profanity spewing from the MOGOTW. It was hard to take him seriously, so I didn't.