Tzaia

A group of us were going roller skating. Then it turned in to we were going to go witnessing door to door. I bailed once the activity turned to door-to-door witnessing, but somehow didn't get my very expensive pair of roller skates out of the person's car. I was told getting them back wouldn't be a problem because we're all Christians. Anytime I asked her, she never seemed to have them. Then she went WoW. So, whenever someone talked about wanting to go witnessing, I would tell them I would be happy to go, but first I needed to get my roller skates back. Well, that never happened, so I never went witnessing door to door. And I lived.

My question is what kind of "friends" would throw a birthday party and not invite the guest of honor's boyfriend? Wouldn't that have been a perfect opportunity to get to know you better? I would back off with a heart-felt, "I don't want to get between you and your religion." And commend her for her desire to "fix" the ministry, but you're not interested in fixing a religion, you just want to live a Christian life with a Christian woman. To take it a step further, this is an area that will make a huge difference when it comes time to have kids. As long as her family is still involved, this is going to be an issue. Since her family is still involved, you are dealing with some hard-core people who wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them upside the head. From what I can see, everyone who could form an independent thought has been culled from the ranks. These people cannot be reasoned with and really, truly believe they are the sole holders of "the truth". No my friend, it is time to move on. <took out a repeat of the entire post>

I believe TWI's stance on things is unnecessarily divisive, and especially its stance on the trinity. I personally have no problem with how TWI teaches Jesus is not God. Who they teach Jesus is is woefully inadequate. He basically takes a place behind "the word" and behind "the prevailing truth" and the "man of God." I don't believe God exists as a triune being, either. But I really don't care anymore. I can sit and listen to almost anything now without getting riled up because I don't agree. I can't tell you how freeing that is.

Studied healing? Studied healing?! Since healing is a manifestation of the hs, not sure how you can "study" it. You would think that since we all saw how leading someone to SIT didn't really work, it would be a given that studying how to manifest healing has about the same effect. They may have the gift, but I seriously doubt if it was something they learned.

You got that right.

Brainfixed, Even when I was active in TWI, it was not a religious institution that I could wholesale suggest to anyone as being right for them. My belief then was that it wasn't for everyone. Now I think it's really not for anyone. It is an organization that takes a lot; promises a lot; and gives little or nothing in return in the here and now. Everything that TWI does now is contingent on "The Hope" of the coming kingdom being as TWI states it will be. Based on that premise, people are reluctant to leave the "protection" of the "household" when the household actually does nothing to protect you, nor is there any real guarantee that it will in the coming kingdom. TWI doesn't just ask a lot of people; it demands it under the threat of diminished rewards in the "coming age". My question was who was TWI to determine my rewards as I stand before the judgment seat? On more than one occasion I had to ask someone if they were going to stand in my place at the judgment seat, and since I knew the answer to that question, I could tell them that I was willing to live with my decision since I alone would have to answer for that decision. While I certainly wasn't spared any of the looks, grumbles, or mutterings, along with a few observations regarding my spirituality or level of possession, I left TWI largely intact. I did spend a few years after that on the fringe of a splinter group, but I eventually found that a complete break from the belief system was what I needed to do. Sure there were some "good" times, but I would never recommend TWI as an organization that provides much in the way of good.

Does that really matter? What does matter is that TWI never has held the keys to any of those things. You could have found any of those things by being involved in any number of religious organizations, or not.

Interesting. In *this* world, your post is construed as an "outburst" because it is in all caps. The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter what you said, it might matter how it is perceived. The other thing with sociopaths (and I believe that any unrepentant "leader", current or former, of TWI is a sociopath) is that they count on people conforming to social norms and not confronting the bad behavior. Any attempt to confront will cause them to claim that any criticism (or whatever you want to call it) on your part is worse, because by golly, you should know better.

Which he didn't. This was yet another example of him confusing the relatively simple. Do any of you feel like you have a greater understanding of scripture because you know that flatbread resembles flat stones and that your father wouldn't give you a stone if he knew you wanted bread? Seriously. Once I had actually traveled to the middle east, it was very obvious the guy had no idea what he was talking about when it came to using "orientalisms" to explain biblical context. A humanities class provides more insight. Once I started studying religion in general and early Christianity in particular, it was glaring what the guy either didn't know, didn't understand, or simply ignored. I don't know. What I do know is that once I took an academic approach, it was really apparent that he was out there.

If you have to ask - no. If someone "suggests" that's it's time - no. It really is ok to hold on to the good and I wish that I hadn't been so quick to dispose of my past before I had time to sift through it and make sense of it.

I think one has to avoid confusing the comfort of familiarity with being real (authentic).

I think one reason he didn't teach it was that it wasn't written to us (although it's certainly "for our learning"). I didn't hear much about the tribulation and whatever from anyone until after the exodus when JAL sported a bumper sticker that said "I'd rather be gathered". I dunno. I always felt free to study whatever I wanted. Maybe not free to discuss it, but certainly free to study it.

There were no "good" times. There were a few good people, but even my first visit - a branch meeting - was not what I would call "good". Overwhelming - yes. I was told it would cost at least a dollar to give to see the band Good Seed. Now I had so much money that I had to put it in a baggie - because pennies were all I had. Fortunately all that was accepted was cash, so it was good that all I had was some change. Then my new best friend shoved a commitment down my throat, telling me I could back away, but all I got was more pressure when I did try to back away. I had a bad taste in my mouth from the very beginning. I'm not sorry it happened. I met a great guy and we've been married over 29 years. I feel terrible that so many people swallowed the whole thing, only to find out it was a con job from the get-go. There were enough things that made me uneasy that I couldn't shake off that I just didn't get into it that deep, much less drag friends and family into it.

A discussion about this recently caused me to tell my husband how convenient it was that Adam's "punishment" for his sin was to be made head over the woman. It made no sense at all for a "just" god to do that. I think someone made it up.

Yes, we all had to make choices. My husband was sending a $75 check every week to HQ in 1980, and I was having to scrape to put shoes and clothes on the kids, food on the table, and I didn't have a car. We didn't have the money, but by golly we had 15% to fill the black void of TWI. Do I sound a little perturbed? I told him that he could give as much as he wanted providing that our family was not forced to do without. I was never in favor of providing VPW a chopper while we were eating chicken thighs, rice, and beans. We weren't putting $1000 into an auditorium we wouldn't be using when the kids needed shoes. The 15% stuff stopped. In the meantime, one of our kids became critically ill and I was diagnosed with cancer. That was because we weren't abundant sharing. I refuse to worship the Guido/God. We tithe, but he never tells me we don't have the money.

I didn't (and still don't) think that any organization is perfect. TWI had this thing for doublespeak. It talked about legalism and not being that way, but it was very legalistic. It talked about how bad private interpretation was, yet practiced it. It talked about household and family, yet had no qualms about driving wedges in households and families. It talked of people having "gifts," yet were highly selective in allowing people to use those gifts. If one didn't get all wrapped up in the hoopla, then one could see this and respond accordingly. It is hard to go against the flow. It is even harder in a group with TWI's dynamic. But it could be done. It was hard to be authentic because authentic people have bad days. Negative was not tolerated, so if someone asked you how you were (the few who cared) it was nearly impossible to be honest about it if you were having a bad day. The kicker was when you were having a bad day and then getting blamed for something that was so obviously out of your control. It took real strength of personal conviction to confront that kind of thinking. The first time that happened to me in a big way was the turning point for me. It ended up that these people were absolutely terrified to cross TWI because they couldn't imagine what was in store for them if they did, if TWI was actually providing them with a "hedge of protection" when the reality was that TWI's positions on certain things was placing them in harm's way. I remember one mother refusing to put her children in child restraints because to do so would interfere in the "hedge of protection," yet she didn't see the irony in monitoring their food, their social interactions, or not letting them play in the front yard which faced a busy street. When I pointed out the inconsistencies in her thinking, I think she did finally get it - maybe - I don't know. But I didn't keep my mouth shut.

I guess - if you weren't paying attention. I recall him saying something to that effect and then marveling at the number of people who claimed revelation on behalf of another. Based on results, not only did top TWI leadership not have an "in" with God, they lacked connection with pretty much anything beyond their lust.

I guess that's where I differed from the pack. Rather than stand there and scream in my head about the lunacy while keeping a stiff smile on my face, my tendency would be to find some way to deal with it so that I wouldn't have to have all the pent up crap. The "untouchables" had an air of "don't mess with me" and really nothing more. It turned out to be very beneficial to develop a don't mess with me attitude. I don't know if I could have kept that had I entered the corp, but I realized WC wasn't for me. If someone stands there and makes unreasonable demands and you stand there and say nothing, whose fault is that?

He's saying that sometimes your "best" involves doing nothing at all.

Which is the reason why they needed to be emptied and wiped down. The dust from those bags was frightful and would have been better (from an allergan standpoint) if the rooms had been left unvacuumed.

I don't get it. He wants you (all) to perform the same task at the same level in 1/4 th time that he's able to perform the task at that level? Has anyone privately or publicly presented him with the discrepancy with the length of time he takes vs the allocated time? Rather than humor him, you might ask him if he would be willing to show you how to get that result in the acceptable time range.

Based on the number of people who approached us to sponsor them in the WC, I was wondering how someone got "revelation" to do that? I know that it doesn't hurt to ask for money. I'm not opposed to supporting "relief missions." I simply didn't agree with WC training goals (at least from what I could gather), or the idea that it was my job to provide financial assistance to achieve these "goals". We were fair - we never supported anyone. As I explained to someone one time, the decision to go WoW or WC is yours, and while I understand that TWI wants you to find people to financially support you while you are doing this, I don't agree with that practice. I don't feel any more obligated to financially support your career move than you feel inclined to provide me financial support while I stay home with my children.

I'm sure there are many, many decisions that were made that were just plain stupid. The one I remember the most was the decision to use betamax as the standard for video. I'm trying to remember when that decision was made, but I know it was after 1980 and close to the time the debate had tipped in VHS favor in terms of sales of machines and available videos on the market. This was my first clue that HQ was not necessarily listening to God, or paying much attention to anything else for that matter. Betamax was fine if all one wanted to do was watch TWI propaganda or the small smattering of very high priced videos that came about later due to the initial 60 minute limit on betamax tapes. But to expect us all to spend that amount of money on such a limited use piece of electronics on the basis that betamax was "the best" was just downright stupid (IMO). I'm sure there are other decisions. Care to share?

I thought imitation was the sincerest form of flattery. Maybe for those of you who were there during those years. We just heard it through the grapevine, but by that time CES was going through all its crap as well, so I wasn't paying much attention.

You do "get" why she did all that? It was so she could see if she could somehow feel better. Having grown up in such a critical home gave me all sorts of fast one-liners to deal with that sort of person. 1. You mean you don't air the bed out every day? Making the bed like that doesn't allow the sweat and whatever to dissipate properly. God knows how your kids have been kept from being sick all the time. 2. We take the Sabbath seriously here. 3. I was napping when you showed up at my door. 4. Yeah, I found out the world didn't end when the bed wasn't made. 5. My mom was so opinionated about how the bed should be made, that I've never done it since. (One step further - she was very critical of my cousin's wife making her kids make beds as toddlers, but not insisting they do it perfectly - not an it-getter) In her defense - most people like that have no idea how they come across. That's apparent by her attempts to connect.