Tzaia

Rejoice - I don't know where anyone would get the idea that I would have the least bit of interest in saying or doing anything that would promote their group. I have first hand experience how they are with people who have financially supported them and have given a significant amount of time. As far as I am concerned, I have earned the right to speak about their group, bad or good. Unfortunately, what good feeling I had about the group left about mid-year 2004.

Or how I must be feeling. I don't feel like moving on anymore. I had moved on and then you all had yet another crap-in-your-own-bed thing where I was called to remind everyone about my warning about how all this was going to happen because the wrong people were put in charge. IMO, pretty much everything about the organization is wrong, wrong, wrong.

And I think it's funny. It's funny because I got this private message telling me I was telling people things that weren't true, without telling me which part wasn't. So I have no idea what part she thinks isn't true. Here's the reality: some things I write about are my observations and my experience. Things I saw; things I experienced. How I felt about them then; how I feel about them since some time has come between me and the original experience. These are my thoughts, my experiences, and I am entitled to them. Feel free to have your own memories and experiences, but don't tell me how to remember mine, or whether or not I can talk about them. OK?

Someone at STFI is mad at me.

Marriage involves compromise - and lots of it. TWI and STF try to get around that issue by instilling the need for like-mindedness within a marriage. I don't care how much two people think alike, compromise is still a necessary element in a marriage. Compromise is not seen as a good thing in TWI and STF. The overlying goal is to get the women to be in subjection to the husband. When that isn't the way it is, things get very ugly.

Same thing happened when my DIL entered a sweepstakes to win an iPhone. Seems she also unwittingly opted in to a text service to the tune of $9.95 a month. Unfortunately the terms weren't all that clear. I had to spend about half a day finding out who the company was so I could get the damn thing stopped.

Oh, and I've said all this stuff out loud to their faces. The whole personal prophecy/possessed thing is a crock and I made no pretense that I believed otherwise, which is probably the reason why none of it was discussed in front of me. If JAL had told me what was really going on between E and him, I would have definitely handled it differently. I didn't ask for specifics because I didn't think it was my business. I guess perhaps he finally figured out all this specialness does nothing more than drive wedges between people - at least until he finds the next really special thing out there.

Ok, I found out what the deal is about the grandkids. I was pretty sure it wasn't JWS. I wasn't going to wade through a bunch of stuff that I don't have any desire to hear just because someone here decided to be passive-aggressive. And yes, that's exactly what it is. The whole problem with STF is that too much of TWI is at the core. There is a foundational class - not to get anyone saved, but to teach the "logic" behind the beliefs. There's all this talk about using logic and even a whole article (maybe even an area) devoted to logical fallacies, yet they invoke them all the time. Why? because you have to in order to be a bible literalist. JWS apparently can't make the whole thing fit his theology using any of the various versions out there, so he's done a rewrite. I can't decide if it's arrogance or stupidity that drove him to do that. Disagree with them? Well then you are either possessed, or someone has some sort of terrible prophetic words to say about you. Either way it is believed to be truth because they're insiders when it comes to the truth of God's word. I just found out that even their marriage course was something from the makers Momentus. I tried to get them to do something mainstream, but they could just never bring themselves to do it. Am I bitter? Not really. More along the lines of sad. They could have been something special. They all had it in them, but they got in their own way.

A person does what they think they ought to do.

The "peril" is in finding out your assumptions were wrong.

All thinking, critical or otherwise, is predicated by a set of assumptions. These assumptions serve as the basis for comparative testing of any new thoughts. The critical part of thinking is first the testing of ideas against those assumptions, and finally testing the assumptions. For me that meant no more self-imposed limits on where I was willing to go mentally. This is not without peril.

pond - I believe that he continues to put himself out there, so he must like the attention. I know from personal experience that you can walk away and disappear from the limelight. But then again, he hasn't distinguished himself in a good way in a very long time - maybe since college.

JAL famous? Depends on what you define as "famous". People pre 1987 who were involved in a particular religious cult know who he is, but outside of that particular context no one knows him - or cares. Furthermore, due to some really bad decisions over the years, the sphere of influence over those who knew him or about him has diminished. In other words, he blew it. And yes Hammie, normalcy was rebuffed. I think there's a certain addictive quality to being at that level in a cult, and it's hard to give it up for the obscurity of normalcy.

This kind of revelation is some of the more embarrassing aspects of being involved in the org.

Oh Hammie, it is f'ed up. It's pretty much playing out the way I told them it would. I could say I hate being right, but that's not true.

Now I know why I kept silent about my life before TWI.

How do you know that they are being open about anything? Does what they say line up with your PERSONAL experience, as in you live here in Indy and spend time with them on a regular basis? I would have said the same thing until I actually did spend time with them - lots of time. Once I did that, my perspective changed significantly. Thomas - my take is that the comment about the grandkids was speculation - like the speculation about JAL's exit being a business decision. After all, how hard is it to simply answer the question if you know the answer?

Bet you won't make that mistake again...

nevermind...

MG was fired in January of 2007. He did not leave the board until January of 2008. May 2007 - JAL remarries E. June 2008, JAL posted a letter that called ex-wayfers who hadn't gotten with some sort of ex-way program "disgruntled". This letter stirred up a bunch of crap. It is assumed that this letter was somehow sanctioned by STF, as it was posted on the old CES site. However, that might not be the case as STF does not directly manage the content on that site. The front page of the site is a redirect to the current site, but old pages are still accessible. Planning for the bimonthly mag starts about 6 months out. Six months after the letter was published is how much longer JAL was an active presence at STF. One person here said that JAL was fired. Another person said they received a letter from STF HQ saying that JAL had decided (and told them 2 months ago) to move on. Another person has said that JAL was visiting affiliated fellowships and receiving donations recently, which would not be necessary if he was still a paid staff member. Perhaps the letter was damage control on both their parts. STF is a different ministry from what it was back in 2000. I have my opinion as to why, but please feel free to draw your own conclusions.

removed by tzaia

I believe that each person who enters your life can provide a learning experience.

You didn't answer the question. Who has grandkids living with them? This isn't a trust issue, although I had a level of trust for a number of years. This is about true transparency, which I can guarantee you that you aren't getting from STF.

Who has grandkids living with them?