Tzaia

I think the notion that god is logical is a premise. It might be a correct premise, but it also might not.

The books went right next to my albums - on shelves. That was one thing I retained - my right to read what I wanted and listen to what I wanted. I don't think anyone ever said anything directly to me, but then again I would have ignored it. For me it was more a case of if that's what someone wants to do in their own home and their own life, fine, but that's not what I want to do.

I am taking this (slightly) off topic because there might be people reading this who are on staff at TWI and who might be let go due to "performance" issues. You might be told there is nothing you can do, and you would have been told wrong. There are even instances (such as a hostile working environment) where you can quit and be entitled to unemployment benefits. When you are fired for performance issues, the employer must have a standard (preferably in writing) and clear proof (in the form of documentation) that there were problems. In the absence of those criteria, an employer will pretty much lose every time. Churches are notorious for under paying staff, but I think the "needs based" compensation takes the cake.

Waysider brought up a valid point about the "performance" issue. I don't live in Ohio, but I do live close by and our laws are similar. Ohio being an "at will" employer state and all. When one fires for performance issues, it is up to the employer to prove that performance was the issue - providing the terminated employee actually files for unemployment. This is why my former comment about not looking for people like that.

Abnormal doesn't seem so abnormal when it is the norm. "Small groups" were not a regular thing back in the day and we weren't sure how we were supposed to be in them. It just seems like people should get all in your business in that sort of environment. To this day people don't get why I don't do small groups.

I bought this book and it has some fabulous insight.

Pat Robertson says this is true.

If you take a look at hard-core fundamentalist groups, one of the things that stands out is how hard they work to retain the culture of their "heyday". Old Order Amish are a great example. What they fail to realize is that, at one time, their lifestyle was completely modern. What they are trying to hold on to is the synergy that was present at just past the peak of their persecution/growth and they have taken that to include the general culture of that era. Fundamentalist polygamist sects are the same way. Had Jim Jones not ordered the murder/suicide of his group, they would have (more than likely) stuck themselves culturally somewhere in the mid 70s once he was no longer there to provide an ongoing vision. TWI has chosen the late 70s - early 80s as its place in time. You watch the videos and you're right back to that time in dress and culture. Past the "wonder" years and right as TWI was settling into the comfort of its own particular brand of legalism. It can't absorb anything that is socially or culturally relevant because it no longer has a visionary leader to interpret and exploit it for it. I think that every religion and denomination suffers from this cultural time-warp until a visionary rises from within the ranks and shakes things up.

I was well on my way to getting myself straightened out when I was sidetracked by TWI. Whether it helped or hindered will remain unanswered. I have no way of knowing since I can't go back and live that part of my life again. I know I went nearly 30 years with all my belief systems neatly packaged with what I believed was the best of TWI, only to find them completely blown apart a couple of years ago.

I doubt it. They don't look for people who think like that.

The quickest way to become disillusioned with a religious organization is to work in the office.

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Chockfull - I met a number of wonderful WC, who were just like you. It was the few that I described that left the bad taste. It was all around a thankless organization that we belonged to that insisted that we be thankful for being in that situation.

The WC program divisive? Depends on your point of view. These people gave their lives (and I knew a few who quit college, didn't get married, and gave up lucrative careers) to serve God (VPW) and move the word (push PFAL and other classes) on the masses of humanity who were not smart enough or spiritual enough to get with the program. In return, they expected to be treated like some sort of royal caste. Failure to do the will of your local WC person(s) was the divisive part. Failure to bend to the whims of your local and visiting WC was divisive. Failure to acknowledge their superiority in every category of life was divisive if that's what they thought. I knew a lot of nice corp people, and a few that weren't. There were some who could manage without having people at their beck and call, but most were led to believe that was the proper way to use those of us who weren't corp. In my area everyone groaned when they were told that the goal was to replace all branch and twig leaders with corp grads. People were not happy about that. I don't know of anyone who actually left because of that, but they weren't happy with the idea.

It wants to distance itself from the bad publicity. It might even want to redo a bit of the theology, but the basic premise of TWI (a "research" ministry with a lock on the "truth") is alive and thriving in the organization. You don't have to read or listen to much of what they preach to see those 2 things at work. They aren't all that into TWI comparisons. It's a non-issue - well except for JAL and he's not there anymore. They believe they have moved past the shadow of TWI retaining all that was "good" about it. I'm not speculating about that. The notion is (probably - I'm speculating here) that with Mark and JAL gone that the ugly times are behind them. I'm not a gambler, but I would be willing to put money on the accuracy of that sentence. Time spent "researching" is no guarantee of ability to teach. I have spent a considerable amount of time around both of them and JAL is a better presenter/teacher than he was a ever a researcher. JWS is pretty decent at being able to make scripture say whatever he wants, but he's no teacher. Neither one of them are particularly relevant. I would tend to agree - see above comment. I don't know. I just think he believes he's truly destined for "greatness". He's got the personality and drive. It will be interesting to see who he uses as support staff and "wise council."

JAL has been doing fine with his test prep courses. I believe he has expanded them. I also think that's one of the reasons why the org didn't feel too bad jettisoning him as he was self-supporting. What I don't think they get is that he was supporting them as well, even when he wasn't around because they were still acting like he was. Like it or not, JAL was an attractor to STF-I and not nearly the detractor that the BOD has made him out to be. I think they may find that out the hard way. I say I "think" because there's no one left that has ever really admitted a mistake. They talk about it, but a true heartfelt "I screwed up" isn't in them. When the whole TWI thing blew up in 1986-87, it was largely due to JAL's efforts along with RD that people left. JAL spent hours on the phone every day and every night. You can talk (speculate) all you want about his motives, he's the one who put in the time, worked the rooms, and traveled the country. There wasn't another person around that was willing to put in the face/phone time. Pretty much everyone else was along for the ride - and I don't think the current "leadership" really gets how important that is in growing an organization of active supporters.

Try pointing that out to someone back then. Ironically, as people started emerging from TWI and talking honestly, many of them were well aware of the discrepancies when they were in, yet chose to ignore them, because it would be perilous not to. I was amazed at what people said after they got out. Everyone seemed to be hiding something.

I don't think TWI lead people into mental illness. It's already been shown through studies that people prone to mental illness are disproportionately attracted to cults when compared to the general population. What I did notice across the board was a lack of ability for some to make decisions for their own benefit. They honestly believed that TWI was looking out for their best interest when that was clearly not the case. While it was possible to exist within the framework of TWI and not let the organization run one's life, one could not move up the leadership ladder, or achieve a relatively high level of acceptance in the culture unless one was willing to let someone else run his/her life. That was the way it was. If one was not willing, then there were noises made about being "out of fellowship" which was wayspeak for being unmanageable and/or possessed. The fear of being out of fellowship or being possessed was and continues to be a strong deterrent to thinking outside the box provided by the organization. As a further note - pretty much every organization uses some system of spiritual "consequences" for failure to adhere to the system. When I became involved with TWI, I already had a diagnosis from a few years back. For a time, I was OK under the structure that was TWI. However, almost immediately I felt I was being manipulated. For a while I thought it was just the person who got me to sign the green card. Once I took the class I realized the manipulation and over-involvement was system wide. Because I have been considered one who is "self-aware (that is most of the time I know when I have a problem)," I was able to see and avoid most of the attempts at manipulation by TWI leadership because I saw it as attempted coercion, manipulation, and over-involvement even if the perpetrators did not. I was able to maintain my boundaries, but the cost was being accused of being out of fellowship and being possessed. No one ever went so far as to call me mentally ill, mainly because it's not recognized in TWI. I was never asked to leave, but I did experience some level of shunning. The difference was that I didn't care enough to change in order to be accepted.

Every time I think that TWI could not get any more insane, someone brings another tidbit to prove me wrong.

Mercifully (and I mean that), I don't care anymore. It's a relief.

I can understand some of the thinking coming from a young person, but VPW was old enough to know better.

revision: Frequently it was used as a control tactic or as an excuse for lack of control. There was some understanding of the human mind during the time people were writing down the stories used to make a point about Jesus (more than I was aware of until recently), however when it came to things that had to do with religious stuff, the spirit world was invoked more often than not as a reason or explanation because reason was not factor in Christian religious beliefs until Luther.

1 change has been made to the STF "daughter" websites - TorT and BU that is interesting - the number of registered users/opportunity to register/how many/who's online box has been dropped. Just to clarify - there was no "benefit" from registering other than being able to receive and send mass emails. There was no content that required registration. The "benefit" was bragging rights on how many people cared enough to register. As I had pointed out a number of months ago, the numbers had been flat for years, which does not paint a picture of growth. Perhaps I'm not the only one who noticed. I don't know, but I did find it a bit interesting.

I studied the I Ching as a teenager (before TWI) and found it to be fascinating, and pretty dead-on. I haven't looked into it since then.

Bottom line - one was afforded no "protection" or relief from "evil spirits" in TWI, which was nothing short of ironic since TWI was supposed to set one free from that sort of stuff. Having an independent thought that one was stupid enough to utter out loud was enough to be pronounced "possessed," particularly if one's place in the structure was close to the bottom. The only people who struck me as being "possessed" were the people who blindly followed orders to their own detriment for fear of being labeled as possessed. It has never been anything more than a control tactic, or an excuse for lack of control.