Tzaia

Does knowing about the "figures of speech" used in the bible really increase the likelihood that one can act on the wisdom better, or is focusing on that merely a distraction from the really hard work of living it?

But no "pictures" of Jesus - that's idolatry.

Incest is best.

Here's a little exercise: Put a pair of socks in a place where you don't normally see socks - like the fireplace mantle. Leave them there. Pretty soon it will seem normal to have a pair of sock sitting on the mantle. Now as long as you have no one else coming in who doesn't know about the "correctness" of the socks being on the mantle, you're home free - socks on the mantle is the new normal. The more you restrict your influences, the more "normal" crazy seems. This is why abusers frequently isolate their targets as well as choose targets who are more likely to allow and enable the crazy behavior. I will never forget when I first was told about family WC pre-teens being shown pornography featuring bestiality as part of their "training". Seriously - you thought that was ok? (I asked). Did you sit around with your parents watching porn? Do you invite your friends over for a night of porn viewing? (Maybe that did happen with some couples - I don't know). What I do know is that people who normally had their children's best interest at heart subjected their children to situations way beyond their children's comprehension that was touted to somehow help their children to become more "spiritual" about sex. These same people who we were led to believe has some insight into "godly" matters did this sort of thing to their own children apparently unaware that normalizing aberrant sexual behavior was a desensitizing tactic common among sexual predators. What I find particularly troublesome is that the parents believed that this was a relatively benign activity that caused their children no harm, until at least one child had the opportunity to confront the parents during a Momentus weekend.

That happened with my dad. Could have been a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't know. He had an uncanny ability to call those kind of things. Personally, I prefer not to go there.

That wasn't written to them. Besides, they were receiving "rewards" in the present, and TWI's concept concerning judgment and rewards doesn't allow for the consequences of sins occurring after salvation. In other words, the idea that they might lose something just isn't a part of their theology.

I believe this idea first came out in Order My Steps in Thy Word, and even back then I thought the conclusion reached by TWI was a stretch.

Yes, and it largely worked one way.

I took it as "Look what happened to Paul when he did not obey. That won't happen to us because we do obey."

I can't even watch. JAL plays better off an actual audience. Same hair - didn't care for it then - still don't.

Oh I get it. There is still a working direct link to the file itself.

Maybe, but that's not the point. The point is that CES comes from a stance of bible inerrancy and that you can believe it. I don't think you can honestly make an exception and continue to maintain that the bible is inerrant. Something has to give, or I think you start down the same slippery slope that TWI took. Furthermore, unless CES has had a huge epiphany, what they are stating in their latest Sower is not what I experienced in their practices at the home office.

Actually - that was the point where I became convinced that they (leadership) weren't operating one, much less all 9.

?? The FB page is there with a bunch of truth or tradition stuff posted recently.

It's not an age thing, it's a mind set. This information highway goes many directions and when that happens, control freaks freak out. So it's demonized. "You can't believe everything you see/hear on the internet (newspaper, television, etc.)" changes to "You can't believe anything you see/hear on the internet (newspaper, television, etc.), but you can believe me/us". Your ability to discern has been replaced with fear of being led by "every wind". When you are admonished to not be led by your senses, followed by only a few have spiritual maturity (and you're not one of them), topped of by not leaning unto your own understanding, what is a person to do? After all, we can't have any mental assent going on. If you haven't relinquished your brain, you become incredibly sneaky. Put on a good front. Keep your mouth shut. Keep your head down low. I don't know if that is much different than really letting them have their way. Same outcome for the perpetrators - more mental anguish for the people who are just going through the motions.

I am a little confused since I was told all of you WC were more spiritually mature just because of being WC. Now you're telling me that you guys threw that each other, too?

I have no intention of going there - however I will send one of my many minions to do my bidding

I never have, but my sister claimed to have known someone who heard a TWI-er SIT and they understood it, and according to her what was said was not what was "interpreted".

Who was the Indy 500 driver that (supposedly) took the class? Cheever?

I pray for the "household of God" first and foremost - to have eyes to see and ears to hear to break free from the bondage that holds them in a cult.

Going to a regular church helped me with the us vs them mentality, but by all means I don't think it's the only way to get past the whole TWI thing. FWIW I get the same vibe about the whole church is the answer thing as I used to get from people during my TWI days when I wasn't going to enough evenings or making TWI enough of a priority (at least to their comfort level). My feeling is that if what you are doing works for you, then who am I to tell you to do things differently? I go to church to give me a sense of normalcy.

same attitude - different loyalty

Isn't it a little late for that?

I asked him about that in 1988 at the first Chicago conference. According to him he had to research the whole thing to have an opinion about it. I was dumbfounded. But that's JWS.

Neither. Sue/husband have backgrounds in finance. A finance committee was formed for the purpose of helping the ministry keep everything above board. After careful review, a list of recommendations were made by the committee. 18 months later not even one had been acted on. Sue/finance committee felt their time had been wasted and said so. Sue shared her concerns (as is the way in CES) with a number of partners. CES locked Sue out and denied access to financial records and so on. That made her mad. JWS couldn't understand why she was so upset. I explained to him that it's a bad idea to waste people's time. He seemed stunned that it would be an issue.