Tzaia

TWI (and offshoots) have a pretty broad definition of what possessed looks like. It's usually something only the person saying it can see. It usually has something to do with disagreeing. I sincerely doubt if any one of them (who said it) ever saw someone who was possessed, or they wouldn't throw the term around so easily. Nobody said it to my face in TWI, but I did hear it often from JB at CES. When he'd say it, I'd trot upstairs and ask one of the J's or M whether they thought I was "possessed" and they'd ask why. Then I'd tell them that I disagreed with JB about something and now I'm supposedly possessed. It was and is an empty accusation designed to frighten and control. Period. TWI (and offshoots) have no control over whether one becomes "possessed" and offers no special protection against it.

Yes, it was really uncomfortable and I can't believe I got coerced into signing the card. But I did. And the main saving grace is that I remained close friends for years with the one who got me signed up. We aren't close now, but TWI had nothing to do with that.

A LOT of people drug their children into the system or had children in the system and that created a host of problems for the child. Given the two alternatives, I'd say the mother might have (inadvertently) acted in the best interest of the children (in the long run). I was told to put TWI first over my children at the twig level of involvement. I can't imagine the pressure having children in WC put on those parents. There was little mercy for the unplanned pregnancies and I know of at least one woman who got pregnant in WC after 10 infertile years and at near starvation weight, and her husband had the audacity to suggest she abort. I suggested to her that her pregnancy was nothing short of a miracle given the circumstances and that it be viewed that way and not as an inconvenience. She felt awful that she had "let" this happen. Really? We were told to let nothing get in our way of serving God.

All craig-laid-turned-lesbian?

I never got that people squandered their education for TWI. I never got how people gave up good paying jobs to join the w-corp and bragged about it. I never got it.

y'all look so happy

They have to withhold. They are subject to the same withholding laws as every other employer. A local church tried to 1099 all its employees and had its assets seized.

Tocchini not only reeled them in, he did it with what I believe was disdain. Back before most mainstreams got a clue that he was nothing more than a lying, abusing sack-of-sh!t, he was extolling the virtues of how what he was doing "healed" churches. He named a few on his website - not CES - which was probably his bread and butter at the time. I brought that up to the Js and M. JAL said "we're in dialog about his trinitarian belief and I think we're turning the corner." "BS," I said, "He's stringing you along for the meal-ticket you are. He has no intention of going non-trinitarian, not publicly, because there are a lot more trinitarians out there, and that's where the future money is. When are you going to get a clue that he's using you for your influence and that he doesn't care that being his shill is going to cost you your credibility?" Seriously - the more off-the-wall something was, the more those boys ate it up.

Yes - unless you are in a controlling cult. Controlling cults think they're bad.

There's a reason for that - privacy promotes boundaries.

I think it's ironic.

I knew some great people who had the life smashed out of them.

There never was (IMO)

In the beginning, CES was very open to reading other people's ideas and to open dialogue. JAL sold all his TWI stuff and I don't recall seeing any of it in his house or at the office. Then little by little the talk stopped. SP was gone to seminary along with RD and RB. Along comes JWS and MG. It wasn't until (relatively) recently that I found out why RD and RB left. They were just gone. In MG's office, the shelves were full of books that one would have never seen in a wayfer's home. I perceived MG as sort of a mystic. We talked about everything and that was such a relief after not being able to openly disagree in TWI. One time JAL told me he thought TWI had 70% of its doctrine right. I told him I thought it was closer to 70% wrong. I urged all of them to critically examine every belief they had. As I proofed their books, I challenged several of their conclusions that held to TWI doctrine and a few of my conclusions made it into their books. They were, at one time, very open to discussion. I didn't attend CES fellowships after the Momentus blowup, because as best I could see, Momentus was a sort of fast track to corp mentality, and that was something I could do without. I don't know why they latched onto that as something that would be good for CES, other than it felt familiar. Apparently the 4 page hold harmless agreement didn't set off any alarms. It was at that time I started questioning their judgment as a group. After that, I really have no idea about what was taught in fellowships. I wasn't interested in knowing. I pretty much stuck to their reading material. I started seeing whiffs of personal prophecy, but I never asked them to speak over me, nor did I let them when they offered. No one pressured me. I did not really start thinking WTF until DG made the decision to move here. I was told that he was coming to shake things up. Not being entirely sure what that meant, I stayed around. By the time he arrived, I was spending a day every week in the home office. That was when I started seeing the group for what it was and what it was becoming. I warned MG about it. Had I known what was really going on with JAL and his wife, I would have warned him as well. Even without knowing the details, I had cautioned all of them about using each other for personal and marriage counseling. Now I believe that it was an overall disdain for outsiders that caused this wariness about going to professionals for counsel, and set them up for devouring each other. JAL honestly sees himself as a great teacher, and like any good salesman, he is relentless in his pursuit.

I've heard that before - just not from a TWIer - to which I replied, "Really?! And just who do you think pays for that. God? No, it's the people who do earn above the poverty level, and perhaps someday your children unless they continue the cycle, or maybe even China who has been quickly buying up all of our debt, you moron." And yes it is twisted.

One year (probably the last year we went to ROA) as we were trudging through the field of quack grass where the cars were parked, I remarked to my husband how much the parking lot looked like one of those junk car lots that are used for parts. I asked if this is how TWI envisioned the "abundant life". I was appalled. My husband was faithfully tithing - probably doing the 15% - I don't know for sure. However, I put a stop to that when I was doing everything that I could to keep the home budget under control, yet there was no money to buy the kids shoes or new clothes. When VPW pulled up to the limb on a customized Harley and a motor home with an entourage, I came home and told him that we weren't giving 10% of our income for that - not when our kids need shoes. Not when I need reliable transportation. I was no longer willing to give up necessities when this guy was wandering the country on a Harley. Those in the grips of the TWI system tend to narrow their options in order to conform to TWI's notion of what abundance looks like so much that I've known of people who have gone on staff out of desperation. Deluding themselves into thinking that somehow working on staff will meet their "needs". I guess it does as long as one has no needs. Have you ever met a rich old codger who was also generous? I haven't. I (briefly) worked for a guy who wouldn't even consider putting together any sort of health or 401k plan for his employees. He didn't need it, so he couldn't be bothered with having either one of those benefits. He was another one who kept wages low enough so employees qualified for public benefits. I have no respect for a person who builds his wealth by under paying staff or continually withholding payments to vendors. That's how TWI operates, and the sooner staff gets a clue about that, the better.

It's not just boredom with STFI. It's a lack of interaction, and yes, even being controlled to a certain extent that people are accustomed to having in their lives. People are left to their own devices. Running a home fellowship is a lot of work and without that push from HQ to do things a certain way, the motivation is diminished. STFI gets a LOT of money for putting out a monthly teaching, a bimonthly magazine and upkeep for a few websites. The vast majority of the money that comes in goes to paying salaries. STFI isn't really evangelizing, pastoring, or spending loads of money feeding the poor - although they do some "missions" work.

That's one way of looking at it. Or maybe they're just being honest.

After we left TWI, we affiliated with CES, then left it for good early 2005. I went back to school full time and started reading a lot of different opinions. which can be refreshing after years of swallowing and regurgitating someone else's opinions about what constitutes "truth" and getting raked over the coals if you question anything - or don't you remember any of that?

I'm sorry to hear this. He will be missed.

Which I did - while I was saying no, not interested.

I thought converting other Christians was a bad idea. I told a lot of people who were unchurched to find a church, particularly if I felt they needed pastoring. TWI was (and is) not a pastoring organization. I really didn't feel like I needed a lot of pastoring, so the lack of it didn't bother me too much. But when I did need it and didn't get it, my whole attitude about TWI changed. We too had a baby who ended up having health issues. We (me in particular) were blamed and when I needed my twig, no one was there even after I told them that my take on the situation was completely different. 1. I had been told that I would probably never be able to have another baby and miraculously I got pregnant and stayed pregnant. 2. In the middle of my pregnancy, my husband changed jobs and the medical benefits were fabulous compared to his last job. Treatment for our baby that would have cost us several thousand dollars on his old plan, didn't cost us a dime, which was a miracle. Plus we were told that if he did live that he would probably suffer permanent brain damage, but he didn't. The doctors who treated him told us that his recovery was absolutely a miracle. Furthermore, as I was being maligned by my "church" family for his health issues, being ignored and shut out, both of our families came to our aid and we were all marveling at how all of these things had fallen into place. The contrast was an eye opener. I never forgot how I was treated by my church family and that colored every subsequent decision involving TWI. I'm going to try to bring this back to topic. Prior to taking PFAL, I probably would not have reacted the way I did. I used to have a fairly high tolerance for that kind of behavior towards me, but I think PFAL got me to actually read the bible and I saw that behavior for what it was. Based upon what I have read here at GSC, I think taking any subsequent classes beyond PFAL wiped out any benefit received from PFAL (which for me was a system of study - flawed as it is). I never took the advanced class and that decision was on the advice of my husband who had taken it before we met. He had taken everything and he never encouraged me to take any further classes beyond PFAL, which he paid for, and I really didn't care to. PFAL was mind numbingly boring and that didn't get me excited about taking anything else. For me, taking PFAL was a step towards a normal life that I longed for. However, as I observed others, the more classes someone took, it appeared to me that they took a step away from my idea of normal. I didn't want that. There were enough people that we were in contact with that felt the same way that I didn't feel entirely left out. I never felt led (by the spirit) to take it any further than I did and I never got far enough along in my understanding of "the word" to find out that only leadership could properly lead me.

Rare is the person who openly admits they screwed up - particularly when they took a lot of people along for the ride.

That's not hard to believe. It happens all the time. Why should it be any different with them?

When I was in, displaying a picture of Jesus made you an idolater. Crosses were called "devil's dog whistles". Are you saying TWI has backtracked on those 2 things?