Tzaia

The first time I met VPW was at a state meeting and my immediate take on him was that he was a lecherous old man. He held my hand too long; he took me in with his eyes; and he kept a hand on my arm to the point where I was creeped out. I said something about his behavior to my husband who poo-poohed it. I've been hit on by all kinds and he was hitting on me. I routinely saw corp grad guys getting into "relationships" with women to get them to take the class and say the ends justified the means. We left in early 87, and yes I felt vindicated. We lined up with John Lynn since he was close by, but after all the drama in that group I stopped coming around in 05. Haven't missed it a bit. I know a couple of people who are still in. I don't get it, but they don't push me about coming back.

We got ours yesterday. They spared no expense. Sent one to each of us

It was in yesterday's paper, but he died in September. Obituary

Biblical series that's downright fascinating

Wry to the point of being bread. Life has gotten more interesting challenging, if that's possible. Et toi?

Hi Brainstormer - yes they can. I think they do a lot of "shaping" at the home fellowship level. Let's face it, Jesse is already wanting to go out and do what we used to call WoW. I have no idea what they call it now. So did I based on all the glowing stories - until I read my husband's WoW "rule book" - where I became convinced that even Jesus couldn't live the life that was expected demanded of them. Encourage her to find out specifics about expectations, because (if memory serves me correctly) it's pretty structured and the leadership gets pretty ugly upset when performance is down. As an adult, this is totally her life and her choice. You love her, but she really has to work through this - all by herself. Hard as it is, let her, but don't let her guilt you into financing her choices. And that's the hard part - they quit a good job and then come to you and family members to subsidize them. But obviously, do all this in love and just be there. Good luck to you.

You can take the guy out of the cult...nah, no you can't. Let us not forget - JAL NEVER wanted to leave. Not TWI, Not STFI Everything. Absolutely everything he does is to desperately try to bring back the feeling he had when it was all working. Never realizing it never worked. It's sad. He's sad. Oh, well...

I'd just quit going. They don't want people who aren't in it to the max and the quieter you go, the less likely they are to badmouth you. I wouldn't offer up the information to anyone, especially your friends that are still in as you will more than likely be "mark and avoided". Best wishes to you, and welcome aboard the greasespot cafe

Just pity the fool...who says he's not being arrogant when he actually is.

Why risk expelling all doubt of their stupidity by opening their mouths? Thankfully I'm not even remotely curious about what is going on with them anymore and I am grateful for those who expose them for what they are - which is basically people who don't play well with others so they started their own thing to get money from people who actually work for a living.

I stated my issues with the REV. JS has dealt with every doctrinal disagreement issue by changing the text to support his view and not offered his version for peer review.

Now mind you, I'm getting most of this from youtube videos One is that one can't be a Republican. People who believe in god can't be rational. That's just for starters

There is a certain amount of dogma and assumptions associated with atheism.

Yeah, johniam, I lied to myself as well when it came to thought processes, but it's hard to determine whether one has until one is completely free from the whole thing. Alas, methinks you still full enough of twi tripe to not discern. But you have improved over the years. The past is enough of a predictor of future that murderers, rapists, and other criminals are jailed for extended periods of time to not only punish them for that crime, but to presumably hinder them from repeating. To assume this doesn't happen on a less grand scale is naive.

Actually, binary is the language of all monotheistic religions. Literalism just takes it to a higher level.

Say "I feel" instead of "you" as in I feel you seem to be using that as a was of excusing wrong doing. It's more accurate by leaving out the assumptions.

My guess is that TWI in NK remains largely unaffected by the Internet due to its denial factor and the effect perceived "persecution" has on the drama bonding thing. I was NEVER able to speak sense to the people who were sold out. Generally speaking, it took a former totally sold out person to convince the sold out. I was never that convinced.

I was raised in a household where people really believed in séances and spiritual possession. When that would (invariably) come up, my response was that I've seen devil possession and what they were claiming is devil possession is not. Now I don't believe it's any more than possibly mental illness or really getting into character. Certainly a simple difference of opinion does not make one "possessed" of anything other than a difference of opinion.

I think that it's telling that only in the US do people take "it is written" so seriously.

From what I gather, Bolshevik, you have family in and family out. When we left, we didn't leave anyone. Walking away from family HAS to be hard. Also, if you are local to NK, then you are going to get the same raised eyebrows that people in Rome City and Emporia got when they went out and about. It HAS to be hard on kids. Especially those whose parents were sold out on the whole thing. The thing is that the whole cult thing was no secret to anyone but the people actually in. The dirt was out there. Heck, my sister told me stuff in the early 80s. I didn't believe her as she was prone to exaggeration, but her stories did pan out. I'm sorry for your pain and suffering.

My issue with the REV is that it is basically a vanity book. It is non-peer reviewed for accuracy, and since accuracy is the hallmark of STFI, then it should be happy to be picked apart by people who are smarter - provided that JS believes such a person, much less persons exist. I have actually had a conversation with JS over this issue, and was immediately cut off with a look of utter revulsion that I would suggest such a thing as this being over his ability as a researcher. At one time there was something written on the STFI online site that said he reworked the NT to support STF doctrine. At least he's honest. But the reality is that he always taught that minds should be changed to align with "the word" and not the other way around. JS is no Bart Ehrman when it comes to education and overall scholarship, and not even he (Bart) has attempted such a feat. But if you want to read it for entertainment purposes only, then fabulous. If you want to actually study the bible, then get a NRSV and learn Greek.

I read a bunch of Brian McLaren books back in 2008, which essentially said the same thing as this guy. Douglas Murray has an interesting take on American Christianity when he talks to Sam Harris

They were never as big as they led you to believe they were.

There always seems to be someone who thinks they can interject their idea of truth into the mix and then has to go back home with tail tucked.

I think that under VP, most were unaware they were being bullied. It became obvious under LCM as he lacked the charisma and the natural leadership of VP. VP (the one time I met him) was charming. I never got that from LCM. I DID feel coerced and manipulated under VP. I attended my first ROA right after I completed PLAF, and I definitely felt "led" to at least try and go WOW. Even for several months after I married my post WOW/advanced class grad spouse, I tried to see if there was a way I could swing it. Then my husband invited me to read the WOW manual. All I could say after reading that was, WOW!. I had no desire to put myself and my kid through that. It was a standard that not even Jesus could adhere to, but it did give the bullies an opening as (presumably) one agreed to the standard.