ChattyKathy

This probably isn't the place to interject Steve Martin humor is it....he said....if we wanted to get rid of disease all we have to do is kill all the little white mice. Okay so I needed a break.

Shell, communication with our children so they know they have a choice and they know what is appropriate and acceptable certainly will help protect them from abuse in many areas of their lives. Thank you from me for what you offered. And I have to be away again. I have more packing to do.

Lori, if you get slammed it would be disgraceful on the part of the slammer to do it to you. And that is not because I am buttering you up because you happened to agree with me, it is because what you said makes sense and absolutely is part of why women who get raped rarely report it. And so they live with that pain and all the crap it does to them inside. Until at last a few of them seek help and begin to learn they are not the whores they have considered themselves to be, or the piece of meat for the taking others feel. There are many ways being raped screws your head over and having a married woman use it for revenge is just flat out wrong and I would love to have her in my personal space for just 5 minutes and she would shake in her tennis shoes at the very notion of using that for a revenge piece, screw the law getting involved, I have an excellent court system in my hands. Dot, so nice to see you back, can you believe the activity since your last visit. And you have excellent contributions there!

I am leaving again for awhile should someone speak to me and I not reply.

In Florida it is very common to see this: People in line to buy lottery tickets dressed to the nines having just gotten out of a Lincoln Town car and then follow them to the grocery store and see them whip out their food stamps.

Excellent point brought up about it being generational because it certainly can be and is in some instances. Self-respect cannot abide inside those folks IMHO.

And skiing is not part of a marital relationship which sexual relations is and that is correct whether you like sex or not. The fact we would allow our young people to think they could decide whether to allow that privilege in their marriage or not is feeding them PC thinking and will demean the marital foundation as time goes on. And apparently already has to some degree for people to even consider it a healthy way of thinking just because they can. I rather thought that would be the case.

Good points except that using sex against someone is wrong, be it withholding or abusing, and that is my point. If you don't like to have sex then make sure your spouse knows that before you marry them, anything else is dishonest and will cause problems as long as one of the members of the marriage enjoys and expects it to be a part of their marital relationship.

Linda, this one has cost my health a bit and I am thankful for the incredible support I have been given this morning. I need to be away now for awhile so if anyone speaks to me and I do not reply that would be why.

Abi, you provided the best I could have read back from you to me. And I agree with your post without hesitation and understand the trigger aspect also. In fact I think women using rape must be one of my trigger things. I swear life is a beach without the benefit of the sand and surf some days.

You were wiser than I was sweet girl.

A few IM'd me the same sentiment last night in the midst of all this and I wish I had taken this advice then also. But in my enraged heart and mind I believed I was trying to get a point across of the danger of some of the things I was reading here and how those views will continue to rape the ones already raped.

And you and I have been in their beds. Which is not to say others here have not faced the same demons. (I simply cannot type)

I used purple because I thought it would add to my above post. And excie that might be the simple heart of the issue for me and why I would not let this go. And I love you for your understanding.

Knowing you and I have been raped in more ways than one it stabs me in the heart to think that a woman can use rape to her advantage which I believe provides a means of discrediting you and I and raping us over and over again.

excie, I need to address templelady next because I owe her an answer and perhaps in this reply it will help you with why I feel I may have set myself up for being asked to leave you all here. templelady I appreciate you providing this breakdown because I took it as your honest intent to understand my intent. Physical violence where the husband forces the woman into sex is rape unless she likes rough sex and asked for it in that fashion. A woman that submits to physical force because he won't take no for an answer is a gray area due to if she taunted him into becoming aroused and then slammed him down with refusal. She invited that plain and simple and holds some liability even though that view seems to be held by me almost exclusively which troubles my head and heart. A woman who has sex voluntarily with no coercion and then cries rape is a woman I would like to have 5 minutes alone with. Now to an option you did not provide but one that perhaps will explain me better. With this new information of people marrying each other with no intent of taking care of each others sexual needs it complicates my brain cells because that seems to be inviting trouble from the start. And before I am given a dozen examples of a couple in their in their 80's who can not perform due to age and not lack of doing so if they could or a marriage where one member is disabled and cannot provide that pleasure I want to say even more deeper in words that I do not agree that people should marry with no intention of sexual relations when it is a normal and healthy function and at some point (there are exceptions to this, some mentioned above, some not but here is an et al to cover my butt should this post be copied and pasted in only this small section) to repeat since I made that so lengthy I do not agree people should marry with no intentions of sexual relations for one reason (I have others but one is sufficient) because it places both the male and female in a position to look elsewhere since it is not being provided by the one who should be willing to provide it. I feel this arrangement could encourage the abuse of rape being cried and it damages the real victims of sexual abuse. If that does not sit well with anyone reading then my suggestion is to consider why you would think a wife and husband should be allowed to remain in a marriage if they know they are giving each other blue balls etc.

Before I answer Templelady I wanted to first address your posts. I did read everything you read and was blinded to my personal challenges here and did not take the time to let you know I read them. As to the purpose of this thread I cannot answer for Dot or anyone else but for me my participation has brought me: Misunderstanding that I still need to address. Head explosion to discover women actually marry men with no intention of ENJOYING the privilege of sexual relationship with their husbands (him with her the same) when that is part of the marriage relationship EVEN in the bible. Disappointment that men seem to get me in regards to a woman using withheld sex as a weapon and the women don't for the greater part. Disappointment that more contributors don't seem to appreciate the severity of a married woman screwing with her husbands head and then crying rape when the fire she chose to play in burned her. And the incredible damage that does to discredit rapes of women who did not invite it in any fashion. Personal risks now taken on by my free will choice to put them in print just so I could validate I had a right to push this subject. After a fitful sleep I now get to enjoy or regret the personal views of people I have considered friends (on line yes) for years and the concern that the set I have now grown will shortly demand that I leave you folks permanently. There might be other things Rocky but that is a few that come to mind now.

You might have an answer now based on my posts to Linda and Abi. Possibly anyway.

Yes Abi, yes you are right it was shoved down our throats. And gawd forbid if I didn't mean to appear I was going that place with it. And agreed also that something could go wrong afterwards, yes that is also true. I just had no idea my thoughts put to words would ever be so misunderstood. I have had to speak of something just to make this mess make sense that will possibly cost me dearly. Too late now. I have to live with the consequences. And still with all my personal risks I still can't seem to make people understand me. I love you Abi, gawd knows I had planned to be with you and Sushi on that sweet day of yours because of my love for you both. I don't want to hurt you in any way. I know what you are talking about also, all too well do I understand. I just find it insane that women would willingly marry a man then never allow him to be intimate with her from the start. And then think she has the right to use rape to gain revenge against him. It just makes my head want to explode. Be it right or wrong, it just makes me crazy.

Linda, this has gotten way more complicated than I ever imagined it would so I will try and make sense of this part. I was using the fact a woman withholding sex all the time, not just when she should be for good reasons that I know exist, but when she never ever gave her husband relations and the man in time approached her wanting to have that from his wife. In those times I would agree that he should still not force himself on her but I am also saying if she then uses that as a cry for rape when she should have either left him or flat out told him before they got married she never intended to have sex with him she is using a horrible situation that happens to women for other reasons and giving cause to make all rapes questionable. She is not helping the women that were pulled into the bushes, given drugs to knock them off balance so they couldn't defend themselves, etc a more difficult time. If you marry someone according to every understanding I have had you are agreeing to a relationship. If you do not want to ever have sex then state it up front. And that alone makes no sense to me, but I guess folks marry with no intentions of having marital relations.

If a woman in a marriage chooses to withhold sex from her husband and walks around him in a nightgown, gets naked in front of him, sleeps next to him every night and never ever gives him due benevolence and then one night he scoots over to her and shows his desire for her and she slams him down then she can get her butt out of that bed and go move somewhere alone. And when women cry rape because they are using it to get back at their husbands I da%n well have a right to speak my mind. You don't know this apparently but I have been raped and I assure you these women who use this excuse have not helped me one da*n bit!

I don't think it would be as simple as get a bath though. A slobbery drunken couldn't find your lips if they were 25" across can bath until his skin falls off and he's still disgusting. But I imagine there could be times when it might be that simple yes. I still can't understand going into a marriage if you do not intend to have the pleasures of it, but I guess whatever floats your boat. And on that off topic thing you probably would have had at least one rebuttal saying the men do the same. And a woman can keep herself out of harms way also.

I will admit that I have agreed with some of each post and all of other posts here, even the ones I disputed to some degree. My concern being voiced is the notion that is just around the corner that a woman would never be responsible for being raped in any degree. That is not correct in my opinion. You can place yourself in harms way and then why should the man be fully blamed?

I guess I do not understand why you would marry a man and not intend to give him due benevolence. If that was the agreement up front before you married the person then neither the man or the woman should expect to be treated with that privilege. But in my book of understanding a marriage consists of the man and wife taking care of each other in light of the fact it is a natural and healthy expectation in a marriage. And if a woman uses withheld sex to pay back, get revenge, whatever then she is flat out wrong! As to the examples you used of course...who wants to be slobbered all over and bedded because the man or woman got hot with someone else. And that is bigger than sexual relations as well.

waysider, I don't know if you are referring to me but if you are I love you for it. Thank you. And you brought up very good points. Intent is what percentage of a crime do they say?