Galen

Do you know a really good way of "smoothing" cheap whiskey? I was shown long ago, to cut cheap harsh burning whiskey with a little bit of 'Southern Comfort'. It works too. I buy 'military special', or 'Thames River' whiskeys (which are basically the local version of cheap-generic. They tend to be a little hard on the throat though. By mixing maybe one gigger of Southern Comfort into a fifth of rott-gut, if comes out smooth. In my home, overseas we always stocked the good stuff. Since returning stateside, I was serving 'Chivas' or 'Crown Royal', as we have found the good whiskeys to be so expensive. But recently I have been stocking my decanters with this even less-expensive version. Try some?

I had always heard of "TWI's 2 drink limit". I saw most other beleivers as well as WOWs limiting their drinking to 2 drinks. Wasn't it published somewhere as their offical stance on drinking? I also saw a few instances of beleivers insisting on a zero-tolerance stance to alcohol, also. We once did a PFAL class in Newport News Virginia, where one TC got VERY insistant that during the after-graduation pizza party there would be no beer. We questioned it at the time, and he only became more insistant. That was the same TC who insisted that all wives call him by his miltary rank (he was a Lt, and never allowed military personnel to call him by anything other than his rank). Bonnie got in his face and insisted that he always call her "Mrs. Young", whereas everyone else called her "Bonnie". He was wrapped a little tight, I was just thankful he was not a submariner. One guy that I got into TWI (Dave Winterbottom) was perhaps stopping at a few bars on the way to Twig, when that TC got really insistant that Dave stop all trips to bars. I felt kind of weird at the time, as I did most of my drinking with Dave, but nobody had said anything about my drinking. And I was fairly certain that I drank more than Dave did. But hey, if you can't be hard on the new guy, than why have new guys.

Geo- “Re:"I dont recall ever seeing anyone clean anyone else's house," ”Geeze, what ministry were you in? I remember "volunteering" to clean the limb home in Washington starting back in 1975. Also got roped into it while in Alabama a few years later, and knew of people doing it CONSTANTLY. It was de rigueur in WayWorld, anywhere I lived...” I have spoken with Bonnie to see what she recalls. Specifically in 1981, A Twig Coord (the Lipholds) were moving and everyone got together to help them clean their apartment. They lived in Navy-housing and to check out of Navy-Housing the apartment needed to be cleaned spotless. The Lipholds provided beer and pizza, and we all cleaned their apartment. It is a fairly common occurrence when anyone is moved out of government housing. The host normally provides beer and pizza for all members of the working-party. Again in 1992 timeframe, our LC was Wilson + Georgia Whitehead, they were asking around At a Twig Coord Meeting, once for help packing someone up, and offered the beer and pizza. The Whiteheads were pretty cool as LC’s, they loaned me a TWI tape once (LCM teaching how to perform a wedding. They knew that I had done many weddings and they offered me this tape to possibly learn a ‘better’ procedure and to see TWI’s official stance on doing weddings). In 1992, the Whiteheads were replaced with a different set of Corps-grads (I don’t recall the name) when they learned that I had performed a wedding immediately before a Twig-Coord meeting they insisted that by doing weddings I was insulting the few TWI clergy, and they threw us out of TWI. These are the only times that either I or Bonnie recall the topic of ‘house-cleaning’ (meaning cleaning someone else’s house). The 1981 occurrence is just what sailors do to help other sailors. They may have been TCs, but we did the same for any other sailor. The only time we heard of this among believers involving Corps was the occurrence in ‘92. The various places where we were stationed between 1981 – 1990 it was not done. And again between 1992 - 1997 we never heard of it. I apologize for not remembering these details initaily, sometimes I need help from my wonderful wife to remind me of details of things we have done over the years. :-)

Goey: "Galen, you were isolated on one of those underwater boats (submarine) or in areas where there were no "corps-grads" nearby -- and for all practical purposes not in the same TWI as most of the rest of us." So I have been told. Though it still seems difficult to imagine. I have traveled a lot (I think), and as such I have attended twigs up and down the East-Coast, Texas, California, Washington and Scotland. Though I also admit that in most cases, wherever I was visiting was usually in cities where there were no "corps-grads" nearby. But even after all that, it still seems to make sense to me, that if I traveled and visited twigs all over, and found that the over-whelming majority of Twigs had no "corps-grads" nearby, then by logic most TWI followers were in twigs without "corps-grads" nearby. "I saw lots of "abuse" at the Twig level. People were pressured in to ABSing money that they really didn't have to spare. Folks were tricked into taking the PFAL class. Kids were tortured with wooden spoons. Peoples lives were unreasonably meddled with. People were yelled and screamed at in the name of God and the Word. People were told they were possessed. Folks were expected to serve leaders instead of the other way around like it is supposed to be. (Ever have a "leader" come and clean your house for free?)" Hmm, I gave 10% - 15%, the same as I had given as a Baptist. I dont recall ever being in a twig when anyone was taught to give anything more than that. I have seen what appeared to be getting 'tricked' into taking PFAL, by 4 female WOWs bringing in herds of men. I dont think the yelling and screaming got popular until after LCM, but it did exist. I was once told that I was born of Satan's Seed. By a Limb Coord (Steve Strezpec), after I caught him in a public lie. I dont recall ever seeing anyone clean anyone else's house, maybe helping another beleiver to clean his house, but never a leader or follower clean someone elses house.

I un-dug a wooden crate in our basement with 20 mason jars of shine (Our basement was flooding with every heavy rain, and sand / silt had built-up a layer of 3 feet deep). It appeared to have been from the prohibition era, most of it was still good. I go through a fifth of 'ever-clear' (it is 190 proof) about every couple weeks, it can be stored pretty much anywhere. When you remove the cap, it has a metal screen fitted onto the bottle as a flame arrester. So even if you were smoking with an open bottle in hand, the fumes might flame-up but the flames can not go inside in bottle. I would not be concerned about storing shine, tight fitting lid is all you need. I do have a vino-meter which measures alcohol content from 0 - 20 percent. I have a hydrometer that is specifically made for measuring alcohols from 20 percent to through 100 percent. If you are wondering how strong it is, you can aquire these types of instruments for your own use. If you understand the 'proofing' system it is easy to tell if your shine is up to 'proof'. Light it. A beverage needs 50% alcohol before it will be flammable. If your shotglass full can be lit, then you know it is at least 50% or 100 proof. Keep in mind depending on what it came from, you may not always see the flame. So light it, and even if you dont see the flame, always test it first by passing your hand over the glass. I have seen men lose their beards from drinking something that was burning, but their did not see the flame. In theory you should not drink too much if it's proof is over 100 (at least unless your used to it). Some people find it dehydrating. Drinking flaming drinks, can never safely be done with hair-oil in your hair, quickly sneek up on the glass from underneath, tilt your head back so the drink is poured into your mouth and the flames stay away from your eyebrows and facial hair, and exhale until the glass is put down. I have a good question for you, I was asked last weekend, "why do sailors tend to drink so much"?

I can 'see' the projected line between teaching about King David and the MOG talking his fill from the young girls going to HQ to worship him. I am not so sure (as yet), that I am willing to admit that we were all taught to be abusers. I dont beleive that I was such an abuser. Nor to my knowledge was anyone in any Twig that I have ever fellowshiped in. Obviously I could well be in-correct. So I dont really agree that TWI taught us all to be abusers. I certainly have seen a fair amount of possible abuses. Though in the cases that I saw, the abuse was never at the Twig level. It always hung around interactions with the various limb offices. So long as most beleivers stayed away from anything to do with the limbs or corp-grads, they could be mostly free from the abuse, study the Bible and continue merrily un-aware that such was going on. I had 'issues' with the concept of a single 'MOG'. And I brought it up, every time that I over heard anyone speaking in the context that their was a single MOG on the planet. As TWI doctrine clearly taught that a 'Man of God' is whatever beleiver is on the scene, at the time. By being a beleiver, and speaking The Word, you are taking Jesus' place to those people, and speaking Christ's words to their hearts. Paul was a MOG at times, but so were each of those other beleivers who came to him and gave prophecys declaring the results of Paul's trip to Jerusalem. They each (including the girls) were standing for God, speaking the words of Christ in that situation. They were each MOGs.

dmiller: "Daniel has had a truly difficult time finding good running shoes, ever since he turned 13 or so. It is just very difficult the find good shoes over a size 15, and by the time a youngsters gets fully grown, full-size shoes are close to impossible to find. But Daniel has reported that the Army has quality running shoes in all sizes up through 18w and 19w." "Galen -- What is his (Daniel's) shoe size? " I dont think his pontoons are over a size 16WW at this time. Since he was about 14, he has had to wear mostly Navy issue boots of mine, because he had such difficulty finding shoes large enough. In Italy he and I searched far and wide for 'civilian' shoes, but the Italian senoritas would just giggle at the American Bambino e' Granda pedo He said that he has found running shoes and boots in the army in a wide variety of sizes and even with different levels of arch support and pronation. So far it does sound like an entirely different kind of experience than anything available in the Navy. His only difficulty has been that his diaphragm had a reaction to the tear-gas-chamber, and now when he gets winded his diaphragm goes into muscle-spasms. They revive him with O2 and he is okay. He did just spend a month on medical hold though, while he was getting his stamina up. He reports that he can now run the 2 miles without being winded, so he has been joined back into a company again and planns on graduating 6May. He loved the week playing with rifles and last week was grenades. I think that he is going to be really pleased when he gets to Arizona and can start playing with the radio-control airplanes (aerial re-con drones). I still can't beleive that in this day, a man can get a job flying radio control airplanes to shoot pictures looking into someone else's backyard.

Zshot: "It would be in your sons best intrerest if he can run 3 miles, before he goes to basic training. And be able to do at least 45 push ups in 2 min and 45 situps in 2 min. If he can't, his time at basic training has the possibility of being misrable." True. Our eldest son is at Fort Sill Ok currently, going through bootcamp. He has been on medical hold for the past month. He went in, being able to run 2 miles, etc. But after the gas-chamber, his diaphragm now spasmswhen he breaths hard, so his running stamina dropped to 1.5 miles or so. This past month, he has been running everyday trying to get his running stamina back up. They follow him with an ambulnace, and everytime he collapses they put him on O2. We got a letter yesterday, and he is again out of medical hold and within a company. Had he been able to do a solid 3 mile run before going in, then any stupid reaction to the gas-chamber would not have been such an issue. A young stud really needs to be in fairly good shape, BEFORE going into the military. Also remember once at bootcamp, you are chattel, the only medical treatment you may recieve will be from medics handing out motrin. Get things fixed first. You will not see an actual M.D. doctor again until after you leave bootcamp. "Also, make sure he has very good running shoes!! You can't afford to be "cheap" on this issue." Also true, quality running shoes are very important. I have ran so much in boots that it has had it's effect on my feet. But then again the Navy does not ever care. Another surprise to us, was that the Army supplies good shoes. Daniel has had a truly difficult time finding good running shoes, ever since he turned 13 or so. It is just very difficult the find good shoes over a size 15, and by the time a youngsters gets fully grown, full-size shoes are close to impossible to find. But Daniel has reported that the Army has quality running shoes in all sizes up through 18w and 19w.

HAPe4me: "there is a family here in Colorado that would be more than happy to give you their Queen and her large attendant family, FREE for the taking. It seems a large honeybee colony has overtaken their home. . . . 250 pounds of honey . . . Want to come get them for free?" I thank you for the offer. Sometimes depending on where I have been stationed, people have asked me to collect wild bees. Wild bees are not thought to produce nearly the same level as commercial honey bees do, and they should be significantly more defensive. A colony that is in a tree limb, you can easily wrap burlap around and tie-off with twine. Cut-off the limb and drop the whole thing into a contractor's garbage bag along with a rodent smoke-bomb. A colony in a tree limb, if you are SURE that they recently came from a beekeeper's hive (every spring healthy colonys 'split' so one new colony may travel the neighborhood looking for their new home), you can gently open the swarm, look closely and if you can find the new queen, carry a hard-sugar candy in your hand and hold it up to the queen. She will climb onto your hand to lick the candy. You can then slowly walk away, toward anywhere you want to bee colony to be. You can slowly set this queen down into her new hive, and back away and all of her colony will be right there with her. I have done this, it can be done, it does look really cool. 5,000 bees swarming around your head and body. thousands of them landing on your arms, head and shoulders. If you have issues with 'bugs', dont try this one. In a house? I would set-up a shop-vac with extra long hose, suit-up and start sucking them up. Have someone else with a smoker blowing smoke into the eaves, just enough to keep the smell of the smoke in the bees (smoke makes the bee's think their hive is burning so they gorge themselves and they get too 'drunk' to fly or fight). After all bees have been sucked into vacuum bags. Cut the comb into small sections carry them down and drop each section into slowly boiling water in a LARGE pot. After all comb has been melted down, let the pot cool and one solid piece of wax can be lifted out of the pot, leaving honey beneath. If you put the bees into burlap bags (or any stray animals) and need a very humane method of putting them down, run a spare dryer vent hose from your car exhaust into the burlap sack, after 45 minutes they can easily be buried. I purchase a carefully bred strain of 'Italian' queens rated for the highest production and to travel a radius of 20 miles in search of pollen. I get them shipped here, for $57. Would I take in 'wild' bees? Within the county of where I am yes, if I have an empty hive, but I am sorry it is just not worth it to me, to travel long distance for questionable bees. Sorry. :-)

Thank you. This morning, i chased Bonnie around the kitchen Scrubbed beehive frames to prepare them for new colonys to arrive shortly. Made a mess of kitchen, cleaned kitchen. Chased Bonnie around the kitchen Attended parent-teacher meeting. Chased Bonnie around the kitchen I made and served a chocolate cake (after a meal of chili). I have had a fairly busy and nice day, sunny clear mid-40s temperatures. Hmm, I guess being 45 is not so bad after all.

Sudo: "... he kept just a few hives but something got 'em about 5 years back. I forget what he said it was. Could've been mites like Steve_!_ mentioned but I'm thinking he said it was some sort of bacterial infection. Whatever." Varroa Mites are a big thing, they have hit a lot of beekeepers badly. A tiny red-brown spider that fills a bee's trachea / lungs. 'foul brood', Dysentery, hive beetle, wax moth, there are a number of things that can mke an ouch on bees. "He never got delicious honey from those hives anyways. Must have been all the dang locust trees around the place." Too bad.

Lightside: "Back in 1981 . . . I took a course on beekeeping . . . This was one of the most effectual training lessons in "having no fear, maintaing a stayed mind; and self-control" . . . with the peace of God "glowing" out of him. . . . beekeeping hobby did it for me, with lasting rewards." Cool. Keeping bees can have a great deal to teach us. Our 13 yr old son did have an over-powering fear of insects. He has been active in 4-H for a number of years (94-97 and 01-now), we started these beehives as his 4-H project. he does not mnd beng around insects anymore. I first got a beehive in 1990. To learn more about being a better husband.

herbiejuan: It is so wierd how some domesticated livestock can become so 'dependant' on men, and totally unable to survive on their own. Whereas animals in their 'wild' state are often far smarter and more sturdy.

Thank you, thank you, bless you everyone.

I would be willing to perform a 'laying on of hands' for anyone who needs such, though really my 'healing-power' is in my lips. :-)

Any beekeepers out there? I husband 2 beehives. Last year we got about 40 pounds of honey. But this last week with the snow finally off of them, I checked on them and all my bees have died. I spent yesterday and today taking the hives apart, melting off the remaining combs and straining out the dead bees. They appear to have starved over the course of the winter months. I called a lot of bee suppliers today and they are mostly sold out. Apparently lots of beekeepers have lost their hives this winter, and the queenbee breeders who normally sale queens and new hives are out of stock. I did finally locate two queen’s packages (a queen with a small attendant colony of 3,000 – 5,000 workers) and they are scheduled to arrive 1May. With so many Beekeepers without bees or low on surviving colonies, the prices of honey may rise. It may also have an effect on fruit, vegetable, and nut harvests this coming fall. I guess that a long winter with warm weeks and cold weeks are hard on bees. A warm period can cause the bees to come out of hibernation increase metabolism and eat their stored food, then a cold period puts them back into hibernation again. After a bunch of these their food is gone. I also wonder if perhaps with so much selective-breeding to produce docile heavy-producing bees perhaps we have lost some of their constitution or stamina. If we have been left with bees that are weaker and unable to survive wide ranging weather conditions. I tend to use ‘Italian’ honey-bees, rated to be fairly heavy producing and with a coverage area of up to 20 mile radius. Does anyone else keep bees? Galen ET1 SS

As I look through many of the previous posts on this thread, I see a common theme. Can anyone else see it? Perhaps it can be explained to Alfakat. Diazbro-“ Once someone told me that they got $50 from their Limb guy. Hmmm. But listen to the story. The guy had been doing free mechanic work on the LC's car, had helped paint his house, was shuttling people with no cars back and forth to twigs, was giving 4 people a ride to the ROA okay. So presumably in a token of recognition of this guys work the LC wanted to acknowledge him.. BUT the $50 was not cash - it was going to be donated when the guy put his money in for the Advanced Class. So there never was a $50 gift - just a carrot on the stick to take another damn class.” “And worse yet, some even took their frustrations out on those in the field , asserting their leadership positions to the avergage guy perhaps in reaction to the growing confusion and deception at HQ. I could see this happening.” “So once HQ got wind of all this they sent down some "professionals" to tell us how we should really do it. It was horrible. I mean horrible. They killed all growth and twig attendance plummetted. These guys were such jerks and focused on things like the cleanliness of someone's car or the lack of attention to how the horn of plenty was displayed. I thought it was like a practical joke but it wasn't. Of course who did they blame for the slump ? US ! We were ripped up and down. I recall lots of people leaving and never returning. It was so sad. Now - Does this experience suggest that all corps people were jerks and horrible people ? As I've said before I don't think so. But the fact that something like I described could happen with the blessing of HQ suggests that they were auhtorized to behave in this fashion. They certainly weren't discouraged form behaving like control freak aholes. As I mentioned before - at times like this someone would show up and try to buddy up with us all - make nice and try to brush over the badness that had just happened. It was so transparent and insulting.” “My experince is that corps people did more to polarize branches and twigs and alienate people than any so called "seed boy" did. They were the ones who provoked the "get off the fence - you are either with us or against" mentality that broke up friendships and even marriages.” Rascal-“ After a while I got pretty cynical about every leader who came along pretending to be my best buddy...wanting me to believe that they were vitally interested in my life ...wanting only the very best for me....blech” “After a while it seemed like we were only a means to an end with our leadership...keep us built up.... *happy* so we would preform to standard...witnessing... classes...numbers were always the measuring stick and standard for excellence in any area I was in....seemed like we were only valuable as long as we were producing...” Hope-“ No one who I know of that was a loving and caring leader in TWI 1 or 2 and stayed in through TWI 3 & 4 remained that way. No one. And I watched them change over the years, too. It wasn't a pretty sight.” LuckyGril- “I think it mattered if you were a favorite of the "mean" ones or not. We were very favored & not put under a lot of scrutiny because, well, we towed the line. And we acted like them when the occasion presented itself. Make no mistake, if you messed up, these guys would crawl done your throat too...favorite or not.” WW- “This is not to say every territory, branch or tc was so motivated (some were already trying to climb the ladder), but I think that's where most of the uncorrupted leaders were.” “I think Galen just proved my point about wc and leadership. The ones who really wanted to help people stayed on the field and worked their little hearts out locally. The ones who wanted to be in charge climbed the ladder, and circled the Limb locales like vultures. Those are the ones Galen saw.” “Others worked their way to Limb, and, I expect, other places, because they wanted to get to fancy-schmancy titles and perks. You didn't scheme to get to where you were sent.” Ex- “From my experience as a branch coordinator, and then territory coordinator, it seems that these "leadership positions" were a real dividing point. . . . . Once a postion above territory coord got offered, the decision had to be made whether to "full time with the ministry" or not. Those who chose to go "full time" had to be pretty sold out to the organization, because now they were employees, usually and dependent on towing the company line for their bread and butter. The branch and territory coords were still "volunteers" and seemed to be more willing to speak up and be assertive about policies and proceedures, cause we were busting our buts doing everything the regular twiggies were doing and more. Once the waypay started coming in, things changed drastically. Catch my drift?” “Once we realized this, we decided that we were NOT cut out to be "leaders," in the sense that the corporation demanded. So we opted out, and refused to take any more "corps assignments," that involved doing anything more than running a twig. It was the only HONEST thing we felt like we could do.” Dot- “We both saw very nasty corps. Horrible empowered people.” “THERE WERE CREEPS. Oh, my could we tell you stories about being in rez with them or under them on the field! I understand how you feel.” “For the most part, we did not get to choose our assignments they were given to us. There were good and bad corps sprinkled all over. But many (not all) of the BETTER assignments went to those that sold out (not all).” Kit- “Bxx Mxxxxxxxx and these other guys who trade their heart of flesh for a heart of stone are just nuts.” Socks- “...yet I always had some Wise Elder on my a$$ telling me what a lousy job I was doing because I didn't do it "the right way" or according to the Holy Rules of Behavior of the Way.” Radar- “I totally agree that lots of us were total SCREW UPS, total IDIOTS, total LOOSERS and totally devoid of spiritual judgement and or/spiritual concern for others. ON the other hand, there were PLENTY OF US that were just IDIOTS.” Catcup- “Those who had the propensity to become asskissing corporate clones, did so fairly quickly, and played that game quite well.”

I don’t recall ever going to a ‘C’ grad for advise or with a problem. I did on a few occasions experience people in my Twigs calling ‘C’ to tattle on me. Catcup- “And for that, I am sure in her mind, I am still one of those @$$hole Way Corps who blew into town with no regard for the "peons" and wanted to "lord it over God's people" and disregard the advice of "old timer" grads from the area who "knew it all." “ While this scenario never happened to me, it did happen to a friend of mine (Frank T.) in San Diego. Frank ran Twigs in his home, in English, Spanish and Tagolog. His Twigs routinely split and sometimes where used to ‘feed’ the other twigs in the surrounding area. One year in about 1990, Someone realized that 20 Twigs had all been split originally from his, so Frank was setup as a Branch Coord. Then a year later, someone realized that Frank was not ‘C’. So then they re-distributed the twigs, to other branches. Frank has always had lots of believers living in his house, usually while OJT-learning networking. They even split up his Twig and assigned each person living in his house to attend different twigs in separate Branches. They were forbidden to pray or BM together in their home, and no two of them could attend the same twig together. Frank stayed loyal for a long time. In about 1995, he was finally told that he was no longer allowed to attend any TWI fellowship. Now he is right back to multiple fellowships, in his home, in multiple languages, and anyone out of work gets job training. We get his weekly teachings, he is still HOT for the Word, though loving to everyone. Oakspear- “Post-1990, even the seemingly nice folks just had to stick their nose in our affairs. We had to have meetings about setting goals, and "report back" on all manner of life's details. Nothing we did was too small to be scrutinized by our "leaders". I know that most of them were just following orders from above, but it's tough to see the good in someone whose doing surprise inspections or demanding schedules.” Yeah this hit us in 1997, while we were on a family trip, our home was searched and it was discovered that we had books written by Rev. Cummins. We refused to publicly burn them, so we were thrown out (third time).

Tom Strange: "Galen, missed your post on page 2, very admirable way to live brother... I try to do that as well... if I'm able, and moved to do so, I help in whatever way I can... and I don't really care what anyone thinks about it... and like Kit's Mom and my Mom always say... "there but for the grace of God...." I try.

diazbro: "My basic problem with leaders was that many local twigs functioned quite well in absence of corps supervision." This was a common experience, in many areas that I have traveled through. "So once HQ got wind of all this they sent down some "professionals" to tell us how we should really do it. It was horrible. I mean horrible. They killed all growth and twig attendance plummetted. These guys were such jerks and focused on things like the cleanliness of someone's car or the lack of attention to how the horn of plenty was displayed. I thought it was like a practical joke but it wasn't." Obviously, these were not the normal 'C' grads, as they were all loving and kind. They must have been the 'bad' ones that someone was talking about. "Of course who did they blame for the slump ? US ! We were ripped up and down. I recall lots of people leaving and never returning. It was so sad." A blight. "Now - Does this experience suggest that all corps people were jerks and horrible people ? As I've said before I don't think so." As I had thought, I had said so previously as well. Obviously not ALL were jerks, just the ones that we saw. ". . . . It was so transparent and insulting." hmm. edited to be more gentle: I do not intend to be insulting to ALL Way Corps grads. I have not met all of them, nor do I intend to (within this life). My observations are limited to those individuals within which I have had dealings. I have been told that the majority of Way Corpse Grads were gentle kind and loving. Such has not been my observations, and I can only speak to that which I have both seen and heard. From among those Corpse of whom I have dealt, the majority of them ended as severely negative experiences. I had assumed that such was always the case with most Average Joe Believers. If anyone takes anything that I have written personally and feels insulted, I apologize. I can only speak concerning those of whom I have dealt with myself. On numerous occasions I have named Corpse Grads who have acted un-kindly and carried themselves in a manner which brought a bad name to Christianity. If you are not among those I have so named, then obviously you were never a complete idiot in your dealings with me. There were always many loving godly believers within TWI, who only wanted to worship G-d and serve others.

Tom Strange: "No where did I call ALL corpse evil, did I? But many even here on Greasespot Cafe will agree that their were many Corpse who were very evil and mean and nasty. To say otherwise would be dis-honest, sir." "That's true, there were many." "BUT SIR, THERE WERE MANY, MANY, MANY MORE WHO WEREN'T. Yet the tone of your posts does not seem to ever allow for that." I apologize. "I'm sorry you didn't get to meet many of them, you have to admit that your exposure to and involvement with TWI was "not the norm". You were on a submarine for a good part of it (from what I understand), and other times you were in the military while doing the outreach." True. Obviously there must have been many of whome I did not personally meet, and have the opportunity to know. I was just an average Joe Beleiver, running Twigs and doing the TWI thing. ". . . WHEN YOU BLANKET LABEL THE CORPS AS EVIL, ROTTEN A$$HOLES. see Galen" Yes, I see. I apologize for having implied that ALL 'C' were evil. Obviously not all, Just those in leadership positions of whom I had the dis-honour of dealing with. ". . . have the courtesy when you are referencing THE CORPS as evil/bootlicking/rotten/a$$holes include the phrase "the ones I came in contact with"..." Certainly. "No one knows better than we do that there were a lot more who weren't." That was NOT among my expereince. However on your word, brother, I will attempt to amend my understanding. edited to be more gentle: I do not intend to be insulting to ALL Way Corps grads. I have not met all of them, nor do I intend to (within this life). My observations are limited to those individuals within which I have had dealings. I have been told that the majority of Way Corpse Grads were gentle kind and loving. Such has not been my observations, and I can only speak to that which I have both seen and heard. From among those Corpse of whom I have dealt, the majority of them ended as severely negative experiences. I had assumed that such was always the case with most Average Joe Believers. If anyone takes anything that I have written personally and feels insulted, I apologize. I can only speak concerning those of whom I have dealt with myself. On numerous occasions I have named Corpse Grads who have acted un-kindly and carried themselves in a manner which brought a bad name to Christianity. If you are not among those I have so named, then obviously you were never a complete idiot in your dealings with me. There were always many loving godly believers within TWI, who only wanted to worship G-d and serve others.

alfakat: "Really, Galen, your reply borders on the disingenuous. Of course you insult me and others I know when you sweep with your generalities--by your count, over 100 and only 4 you find "acceptable". Nice ratio... were these your words" Certainly they were my words. Did I deal with you? somewhere, sometime? I know not. Merely meant as a statement of fact, not insulting either way. By all means I apologize for having offended you so personally. "Corpse members were certainly a varied bunch. In my limited experience, the over-whelming majority of Corpse were mean nasty a$$holes." What conclusions would anyone draw from that statement??" That the sentament of average Joe Beleiver was less than impressive. "If I am unfriendly, what about you??? You come off highly judgemental and prejudicial and you cannot understand why that would offend me?? You act much more dense than I have reason, by your other posts here, to believe." Fine, obviously you must recall me, and I must have been talking about you. I am sorry for not remembering you and whatever encounter we have had. I apologize for not having a better memory of you and your stand for G-d. There were people who acted poorly, they treated others very badly. I saw it, and it brought dis-honour to Christainity. Did that include you? I have no idea. I dont know you. If I simply speak the truth of what I have seen and done, how should it bring such offense to you, a man I dont know. You even think that I dis-like you personally. "I dont recall ever being within a twig that was led by a corpse person, but I do recall hearing that there were some corpse who were just Twig-coordinators. On the few occassions that I was traveling and found myself in a 'heavily populated area' (meaning a city with dozens of corpse living in it), it did seem that the 'lower' corpse were much nicer and could even possibly be considered human. Almost as human as a regular beleiver." This was however, how things were presented. At least in my personal experience. There are others here on Greasespot Cafe who seem to also agree that it was the local 'leadership' who engendered the nastiness. Which may have well been the case. But you must admit that non-'C'/ regular Joe Beleivers were treated as second class people. Again these were just my impressions, gathered from years of dealing with 'C' grads. In my mind (as well as within other's minds) they did tend to fit into a common stereotype. Obviously I missed a great deal, by not having worked with you personally. No doubt I would have seen an entirely different side of TWI. edited to be more gentle: I do not intend to be insulting to ALL Way Corps grads. I have not met all of them, nor do I intend to (within this life). My observations are limited to those individuals within which I have had dealings. I have been told that the majority of Way Corpse Grads were gentle kind and loving. Such has not been my observations, and I can only speak to that which I have both seen and heard. From among those Corpse of whom I have dealt, the majority of them ended as severely negative experiences. I had assumed that such was always the case with most Average Joe Believers. If anyone takes anything that I have written personally and feels insulted, I apologize. I can only speak concerning those of whom I have dealt with myself. On numerous occasions I have named Corpse Grads who have acted un-kindly and carried themselves in a manner which brought a bad name to Christianity. If you are not among those I have so named, then obviously you were never a complete idiot in your dealings with me. There were always many loving godly believers within TWI, who only wanted to worship G-d and serve others.

ex10: "Galen, By your own admission, the most of the corps you dealt with were at the limb or country or whatever level and you needed class materials. Do I have that right?" Absolutely. Each different place that I was stationed or lived, I usually ran a Twig. It worked out such that breifly in '83 we were within a branch, and again in '95-'97. Though most of the we were not within any branch. Living here for a few years, then moving, over and over. We could usually find beleivers whereever we were and piece together a fellowship. But none of that had anything to do with Corpse. When we did need materials, was generally the only dealings that we had with them, usually on the Limb level. My understanding has been that when sent out into the 'field' most of them were sent to limbs, and they remained within the local area around that limb office. So obviously most areas in the nation where I could possibly be stationed, there was on presence of them. "Just consider that these people involved in such things were not representative of the masses." Okay, but wasn't that 'them'? "Most limbs, and countries as well (I assume) had limited resources. They tended to get pretty protective of their "stuff" and who was using it, for what purpose, etc. I'm not making excuses, just trying to point out that there were many factors involved in running PFAL classes, that maybe you aren't/weren't aware of." Okay, uh sign people-up / arrange a suitable local / coord refreshments / parking / flip-charts / tapes / send in the money / contact limb to schedule using the tapes/flip-charts. "There's no doubt that some corps "leaders" were jerks. But it's pretty upsetting for those of us who feel like we did our damndest for people, to be stereotyped. Surely you understand that?" I understand that some were jerks. We are in agreement, again, thank you. On 2 occasions, I have been given 'C'-grads to be within my fellowship. Both times I was told that they were on 'in-active' list and would be Twig members and not Coords. In 1990-93, one couple was very nice, wonderful people (The Olsens). Of whom we are still in contact with. They learned their own system of ethics, largely from attending the Corps program and had huge problems with 'leadership' in the field, ethically. I learned a bit about further study of the Bible from them, and they often filled us in on 'inner-dealings' of things with-in the ministry. The second couple (1992-93) was a lady 'C'-grad who married a non-C-grad (a sailor). Moving to Connecticut was the first time in years that she had not been surrounded with other 'C'-grads. She would complain for hours of how she missed it all. That she had been used to spending all day in contact with other 'C'-grads. She had lived with them, worked at jobs with them, met them through-out each day, and spent every evening attending fellowships with them. When they lived in Ct, she truly went through 'with-drawal's as if she had been addicted. She still traveled 90 minutes twice a week to attend 'C' night at the limb office. Each monthly bill to be paid, each shopping trip, etc, was yet another stand for G-d and oportunity for the Adversary to torment her. After about a year of that I was trasferred. My wife and I were always treated as second-class citizens by her. She openly and constantly told us that we had never acheived our true potiential, and that we could not, without first attending 'C'. edited to be more gentle: I do not intend to be insulting to ALL Way Corps grads. I have not met all of them, nor do I intend to (within this life). My observations are limited to those individuals within which I have had dealings. I have been told that the majority of Way Corpse Grads were gentle kind and loving. Such has not been my observations, and I can only speak to that which I have both seen and heard. From among those Corpse of whom I have dealt, the majority of them ended as severely negative experiences. I had assumed that such was always the case with most Average Joe Believers. If anyone takes anything that I have written personally and feels insulted, I apologize. I can only speak concerning those of whom I have dealt with myself. On numerous occasions I have named Corpse Grads who have acted un-kindly and carried themselves in a manner which brought a bad name to Christianity. If you are not among those I have so named, then obviously you were never a complete idiot in your dealings with me. There were always many loving godly believers within TWI, who only wanted to worship G-d and serve others.

alfakat: "Galen: I said what I said. You are tarring with a wide brush. Period." Very well. "Find the word shallow in what I said. I said you don't know what went on and you speak like you do. Period." I dont know, what 'training' you wen through. I have said this before and will likely say it again. I dont think that I ever did say that I was there. I can however still speak for what I saw and how I was treated. If that offends you, it is truly bad. Does your mirror image offend you? Does the image of old photograghs offend you as well? I am sorry. "I WILL NOT speak to the Submarine Service; THAT is my WHOLE point, capiche???? I was not there where you were-- how could I??" Which has been my point as well. It is good that we agree. I was not in corpse training, get it? "I find your manner offensive, Period." That it too bad. "You do not like that about ME, fine. Period." I dont think that I ever said I did not like you. Did it sound like I said something negative about you? I dont know you, how could I have insulted you so mortally? There were people who acted poorly, they treated others very badly. I saw it, and it brought dis-honour to Christainity. Did that include you? I have no idea. I dont know you. If I simply speak the truth of what I have seen and done, how should it bring such offense to you, a man I dont know. You even think that I dis-like you personally. Ooops. edited to be more gentle: I do not intend to be insulting to ALL Way Corps grads. I have not met all of them, nor do I intend to (within this life). My observations are limited to those individuals within which I have had dealings. I have been told that the majority of Way Corpse Grads were gentle kind and loving. Such has not been my observations, and I can only speak to that which I have both seen and heard. From among those Corpse of whom I have dealt, the majority of them ended as severely negative experiences. I had assumed that such was always the case with most Average Joe Believers. If anyone takes anything that I have written personally and feels insulted, I apologize. I can only speak concerning those of whom I have dealt with myself. On numerous occasions I have named Corpse Grads who have acted un-kindly and carried themselves in a manner which brought a bad name to Christianity. If you are not among those I have so named, then obviously you were never a complete idiot in your dealings with me. There were always many loving godly believers within TWI, who only wanted to worship G-d and serve others.

Radar O'Reilly: ". . . I PERSONALLY do not know that anyone that I knew or was friends with went into the way corps for any reason other than we wanted to be trained for a lifetime of christian service." A noble purpose. "I am not gonna make a blanket apology for all of the idiots that went thru and graduated from the way corps...that is their cross to bear." I dont think that I have ever asked, nor even implied that you should. "But please, when please listen and consider what Socks says....he and his wife..they leave a legacy of WHAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN in their wake. He isn't wrong.......at least not in this matter. He is speaking for many more of us than even he knows." Very well. edited to be more gentle: I do not intend to be insulting to ALL Way Corps grads. I have not met all of them, nor do I intend to (within this life). My observations are limited to those individuals within which I have had dealings. I have been told that the majority of Way Corpse Grads were gentle kind and loving. Such has not been my observations, and I can only speak to that which I have both seen and heard. From among those Corpse of whom I have dealt, the majority of them ended as severely negative experiences. I had assumed that such was always the case with most Average Joe Believers. If anyone takes anything that I have written personally and feels insulted, I apologize. I can only speak concerning those of whom I have dealt with myself. On numerous occasions I have named Corpse Grads who have acted un-kindly and carried themselves in a manner which brought a bad name to Christianity. If you are not among those I have so named, then obviously you were never a complete idiot in your dealings with me. There were always many loving godly believers within TWI, who only wanted to worship G-d and serve others.